Negotiations Update (April 19, 2013)

[PiedmontSteward]

Not sure what TDU is entirely, but I do remember about five years ago they were outside my hub handing out some flyers and collecting signatures from the part timers for some kind of petition. The next week everyone who signed up had a dollar taken out of their checks... For the entire year! It just said "drive" - $1.00. Good thing they forgot to mention the donating money part. Lots of the guys on my area were upset over that.....

Those were probably not TDU folks, but probably people from your local signing up members for DRIVE. DRIVE is the Teamsters' political action fund for donations to political parties. A DRIVE card is pretty distinct and forward about it being a contribution- it would be awful hard for someone to sign up without intending to contribute.

 

[brownmonster]

It's a bad thing because its no longer a defined benefit. There will not s contract language and the union could up prices or co pays at any point.

Ours is run by our local. If we don't like the way the funds are being run, we vote out the officers.

 

[stink219]

You really don't see cause for concern? I get that you're taking a "wait and see" approach. But to many of us, the simple fact that the company is still at a point where their original proposal is still in tact in some form, is incredibly aggravating to most of us. And it should be.

And why is it aggravating? Because at this point, there is nothing that we can do until a tentative agreement has been reached. Simple. The company can propose anything they desire even us paying 1 million dollars a week for health care.

I've said it already in another post, as have many others, but we should not take any concessions on this contract. NONE. ZERO. We shouldn't lose ANYTHING. You make concessions when the company you work for is failing, the business is losing money, the stock is dropping, and the only way to save your job, is to make financial changes within the company.

Do you think a company like UPS will turn around at negotiations and say,"Hey, we know we worked you guys hard and made a ton of money, so we will give you everything you want."?
UPS is using the health scare to divert attention from other issues. People are so scared to pay for health care that once they pull it, they will have you right where they want. People will pass on other issues in an effort to maintain free bennies. It's simple psychology. Negotiations are just like being in a street fight. There are loud animated barkers and runners that back down. Both of those are scared out of their minds but react in different ways. But who is the scariest guy to get in a street fight with? The guy that is relaxed, controls his breathing and stares at you dead in the eyes ready to react to movement. Be that guy!!
Are you gonna be better or worse if UPS reduces the health plan from 20/40/60 to 10/20/30? Expect it. It will probably happen. Remember, anticipation of death is worse than death itself. Relax bud. Worrying will not change to contract. Clear your mind and wait for the tentative.

 

[realbrown1]

And why is it aggravating? Because at this point, there is nothing that we can do until a tentative agreement has been reached. Simple. The company can propose anything they desire even us paying 1 million dollars a week for health care.


Do you think a company like UPS will turn around at negotiations and say,"Hey, we know we worked you guys hard and made a ton of money, so we will give you everything you want."?

No, but with that much profit in 2012 and through the life of this last contract, I find it insulting that they made the offer (30/60/90) and that it stayed on the table for more than 5 minutes. I wouldn't have stayed in the room if I was Hall. I would have walked out and said, call me when the amount is 0/0/0.
Now what is fair IMHO is same bennies (health care and pensions)plus the cost of inflation added to them for full-timers. Same for part-timers but bumping starting and minimum pay up to $9.50 at start of contract and $10.00 in the last year of contract for starting pay. Raises for the rest of the part timers would be cost of living plus 2%. Next contract should continue this starting pay increase for part timers. Full time pay I could be more flexible with either $1 raise per year (average) or a smaller raise plus $1000 bonus payable every Aug 1st of the contract.
This seems fair to me since the amount of profits that UPS has made off our sweat. But this is just my opinion.
And we must fix the panel system. It takes too long and is slanted to UPS's favor. End all subcontrating. Limit (not end) Surepost. And a 5 or 6 year contract.

 

[Coldworld]

No, but with that much profit in 2012 and through the life of this last contract, I find it insulting that they made the offer (30/60/90) and that it stayed on the table for more than 5 minutes. I wouldn't have stayed in the room if I was Hall. I would have walked out and said, call me when the amount is 0/0/0.
Now what is fair IMHO is same bennies (health care and pensions)plus the cost of inflation added to them for full-timers. Same for part-timers but bumping starting and minimum pay up to $9.50 at start of contract and $10.00 in the last year of contract for starting pay. Raises for the rest of the part timers would be cost of living plus 2%. Next contract should continue this starting pay increase for part timers. Full time pay I could be more flexible with either $1 raise per year (average) or a smaller raise plus $1000 bonus payable every Aug 1st of the contract.
This seems fair to me since the amount of profits that UPS has made off our sweat. But this is just my opinion.
And we must fix the panel system. It takes too long and is slanted to UPS's favor. End all subcontrating. Limit (not end) Surepost. And a 5 or 6 year contract.

Dont part timers start at 8.50 and go to 9 a short time after?? So they only get a 50 cent bump.....that's cheap rb1

 

[realbrown1]

Dont part timers start at 8.50 and go to 9 a short time after?? So they only get a 50 cent bump.....that's cheap rb1

Hey, it a coldworld out there. What do you want, a hugh bump probably won't happen in my opinion. So they will have to play catch-up slowly.

 

[Evil]

Part-timers jump up to $9.50 after three months. Its pretty crappy if you ask me because they only get $0.50 raises on their anniversary.

hall is a joke. At the rallies he stated that he wouldn't go back to the table to negotiate unless UPS removed their 30/60/90 healthcare offer to zero. Two months later, hall is still letting the company slap him around like a crack whore desperately begging for more drugs.

After two months of getting down on his knees and performing multiple jobs, the crack whore (hall) has gotten his client, Scott Davis to reduce it to 20/40/60.

hall performance in these negotiations has been an embarrassment.

If hall has any respect for himself or the Teamsters he will walk of the negotiating table at the latest, this Friday and not go back to the table until July 1st, like he said he would at all the rallies.

 

[IzzyTheNose]

And why is it aggravating? Because at this point, there is nothing that we can do until a tentative agreement has been reached. Simple. The company can propose anything they desire even us paying 1 million dollars a week for health care.

I've already said why we find it aggravating.

Do you think a company like UPS will turn around at negotiations and say,"Hey, we know we worked you guys hard and made a ton of money, so we will give you everything you want."?

Of course not. But their initial proposal was garbage. So much so that it could be taken as them not being serious. It was THAT horrendous.

UPS is using the health scare to divert attention from other issues. People are so scared to pay for health care that once they pull it, they will have you right where they want. People will pass on other issues in an effort to maintain free bennies. It's simple psychology.

Thank you for making my point for me. This is entirely why the Union should have walked away from discussions, and only returned once it was completely off the table. The Union didn't do that. If they had, it would have quelled any suspicions we had initially that the Union was going into negotiations without any teeth.

But here we are, months after the company's garbage proposal, still talking about our benefits. If the company is using our benefits as a guise to make us take concessions elsewhere, it's working, and it's working because the Union is allowing it to work.

Negotiations are just like being in a street fight. There are loud animated barkers and runners that back down. Both of those are scared out of their minds but react in different ways. But who is the scariest guy to get in a street fight with? The guy that is relaxed, controls his breathing and stares at you dead in the eyes ready to react to movement. Be that guy!!

Terrible analogy. I'm not directly in the fight. It's like I'm watching my son fight, and he's getting smacked around because his trainer is doing a poor job of giving him instructions. I can only yell from the stands. Which is what I'm doing now.

Are you gonna be better or worse if UPS reduces the health plan from 20/40/60 to 10/20/30? Expect it. It will probably happen. Remember, anticipation of death is worse than death itself. Relax bud. Worrying will not change to contract. Clear your mind and wait for the tentative.

That's your advice? To do nothing? I'll pass. You handle these negotiations however you'd like. I'll do my thing. I've already started talking to every part-timer I know, and told them to make sure they vote against any proposal that states we'll be paying for our benefits, or any proposal where we're losing something.

The frame of mind we ALL should have right now is that we're not losing a damn thing on this contract. NOTHING. The company has made money hand over fist for nearly a decade, and they've rewarded their CEO, CFO and COO handsomely for it. Now they want to short-change us? Get out of here.

I want the Union to start acting like it has all the bargaining power. Because it does.

 

[stink219]

Your missing my point. NOBODY IS WILLING TO PAY!! Ask around. What are you worried about?

 

[stink219]

hall is a joke. At the rallies he stated that he wouldn't go back to the table to negotiate unless UPS removed their 30/60/90 healthcare offer to zero. Two months later, hall is still letting the company slap him around like a crack whore desperately begging for more drugs.

Did you attend a rally? Which one did you go to? I was at Chelmsford front row of the stage. He said he gave UPS 3 options. The second option, "If UPS can't find affordable health care for our members, we(Teamsters) will do it for you(UPS)!"

 

[realbrown1]

Your missing my point. NOBODY IS WILLING TO PAY!! Ask around. What are you worried about?

Just goes to show you what people think of your IDEAS. They, well, stink. He blew your whole reply out the door. And he was right on all points.
Face it Stink, maybe your just not smart enough to be anything other than a blind follower of Hoffa.

 

[realbrown1]

Did you attend a rally? Which one did you go to? I was at Chelmsford front row of the stage. He said he gave UPS 3 options. The second option, "If UPS can't find affordable health care for our members, we(Teamsters) will do it for you(UPS)!"

I was at one of the rallys. I remember him also saying that if UPS doesn't pull 30/60/90 he would walk. So far, hall is not a man of his word. So why are you taking his word for anything.
Just another piece of advice Stink. When it comes to dealing with Hoffa/Hall, get it in writing. They tend to try and wiggle out of anything that they say.

 

[Asskicker]

That's not true Stink...I've heard people say things about healthcare. There are a lot of dumb asses working for UPS. And UPS knows that. They are preying on the scaredy-cats out there who don't have the spine to stand up against the machine. I see them all over our hub. They know who they can push around and who they can't. As long as they have sooooo many pushovers with a vote, we always have to worry.

 

[stink219]

Your missing my point. NOBODY IS WILLING TO PAY!! Ask around. What are you worried about?

Just goes to show you what people think of your IDEAS. They, well, stink. He blew your whole reply out the door. And he was right on all points.
Face it Stink, maybe your just not smart enough to be anything other than a blind follower of Hoffa.

Do you ready any posts? Or do you reply with blind eyes? You still didn't address the sandy pope lm2 issue. Your just TDUing. Take and issue and spin it and talk negativity. I said nobody is willing to pay for health care. I will vote no as well. But the guy posted his anxiety over it when we don't even have a tentative yet! hall this and Hoffa that! Keep feeding the destruction of our union you commie sycophant bag. It's people like you that are the real issue with our union. If your ever on the east coast I'd love to meet you. We can "discuss " your hatred of this union in a better environment. That's if you have enough time to remove Paff's penis pacifier from your mouth.

 

[stink219]

That's not true Stink...I've heard people say things about healthcare. There are a lot of dumb asses working for UPS. And UPS knows that. They are preying on the scaredy-cats out there who don't have the spine to stand up against the machine. I see them all over our hub. They know who they can push around and who they can't. As long as they have sooooo many pushovers with a vote, we always have to worry.

My stance is clear. Base your dicision on what your looking for and what we get. If it doesn't match what you want vote no, if it does vote yes. Give Hall a chance to come back with an agreement first! All I've been saying since day 1. He's a pretty smart guy and a solid negotiator. People need to stop thinking its Hoffa and Davis across from each other arguing about the part time doubles list and such.

 

[PiedmontSteward]

My stance is clear. Base your dicision on what your looking for and what we get. If it doesn't match what you want vote no, if it does vote yes. Give Hall a chance to come back with an agreement first! All I've been saying since day 1. He's a pretty smart guy and a solid negotiator. People need to stop thinking its Hoffa and Davis across from each other arguing about the part time doubles list and such.

I expect we'll see a handshake agreement by Friday night -- at the latest. I'm not willing to criticize Hall until I see something in writing; and neither should the TDU supporters. While I disagreed with the amount of time spent bashing TDU via conference calls, if we get a good deal that protects our health care, improves on wages and pensions along with providing more opportunities for PT'ers to get a FT job, then Hall has done his job.

 

[stink219]

I remember him also saying that if UPS doesn't pull 30/60/90 he would walk.

Yes, like I said. Your limited scope of reality is hindered by stupidity. That was the 3rd option he gave UPS. "We will take our ball and go home." Man, you should take Ritalin. You obviously have an attention issue. Do you remember the first option he said? Here is your chance to show your intelligence. So in the face of the 3rd option of walking away, UPS conceded to the demand of picking option 2 which gives the Teamsters the chance to find it for them. But apparently you missed every part of the rally except "walk away". Maybe Hall was saying that directly to you? Who knows? Which rally did you attend? I'm guessing the one on YouTube?

 

[3 done 3 to go]

That's not true Stink...I've heard people say things about healthcare. There are a lot of dumb asses working for UPS. And UPS knows that. They are preying on the scaredy-cats out there who don't have the spine to stand up against the machine. I see them all over our hub. They know who they can push around and who they can't. As long as they have sooooo many pushovers with a vote, we always have to worry.

Sad! But,true

 

[Evil]

Did you attend a rally? Which one did you go to? I was at Chelmsford front row of the stage. He said he gave UPS 3 options. The second option, "If UPS can't find affordable health care for our members, we(Teamsters) will do it for you(UPS)!"

Well the crack-whore (hall) must have changed his position when he went to your rally. I was in the first rally in the West Coast and he clearly stated that he would not go back to the table unless UPS dropped their health care proposal. He's a lying sack of garbage and your his 5 year old drinking every ounce of kool-aid serving you!

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Well the crack-whore (hall) must have changed his position.

Really....

Well the crack-whore (hall)....He's a lying sack of garbage and your his 5 year old drinking every ounce of kool-aid serving you!

Is english....your main language ??


TDU supporter at "their" best. You be the judge.



-Bug-