New retirement vacation policy

[The Real Jack RyanMI6]

I will not argue with your first three points.

However, I know that 1997 strike changed many of the Board and all of the Management Committee minds.
UPS would have gone public at some point but not in 1999. My hypothetical guess would be maybe 2005 or so.
In 1998, there was a whole lot of talk how the strike had changed things ... I bought $100,000 worth of UPS stock
in 1998 based on the rumors (that's not insider trading BTW).
I hypoed a total of three times to buy UPS Stock.

Wow, my first experience with UPS stock was as an outsider I meet several individuals how like you bought a lot of Stock as much as they could right at the beginning. Before the first split, but after it went public all retired with several million in the bank houses, cars, boats other toys paid off. It was interesting to hear their stories first hand. Some were relatively young, most were In mid life 50 or older. Good for you to be that fortunate and astute

 

[Old Man Jingles]

To: Old Man J.
I was not around in 97 I came I just after that would you please elaborate, I guess what I'm asking is for your opinion on a hypothetical.
What would UPS be like to work for had the strike not occurred, when or if we would be a public company.
Would pt employees stayed full time, ( I understand there was a time all were ft) what would Wages for pt and ft and management be at current or below or higher.
22.4s would they exist, etc... I know I've only gone into a very few subjects as that type of change would have effected each and every aspect of the business.
Please elaborate as much as you care to or can give your experiences within the UPS system and culture. Thanks JR

What would UPS be like to work for had the strike not occurred, when or if we would be a public company.
UPS was never an easy company to work for. It required dedication and compliance with many rules.
UPS put out in 2000-2003 several memos to employees that UPS would not be 'our' Paternal protector in regards to "hire to grave" that it had been. All UPS employees were considered part of a big family ... that was the culture.

Would pt employees stayed full time, ( I understand there was a time all were ft) what would Wages for pt and ft and management be at current or below or higher.
I started in 1973 and there were P/T galore.
Wages would be pretty much the same as now for Union people ... way above industry average.
Market conditions have driven the Non-Union salaries and wages down to industry average.
Consequently, Non-operations management are not expected to work the hours like they did prior to 2003

22.4s would they exist,etc.
22.3 would not exist in my opinion but 22.4 may have developed.

Please elaborate as much as you care to or can give your experiences within the UPS system and culture.
When I started with UPS, the ratio of outside to P/T going friend/T was 1 to 1.
UPS told the P/T that they had to be in college and were expected to leave UPS when they graduated.
I was approached by UPS management as I approached graduation and they explained to me the benefits of going into friend/T Management so I stayed with UPS when it was offered. (I quit a friend/T Engineering job to go friend/T with UPS)

I think in the 1977 contract and in the early 80's, the expectations of a P/T going to friend/T driving began to progress in the direction it is today. I was in Personnel (Human Resources) for 4 years in the early 1980's and I never hired a P/T employee that was not a student except during Peak Season.
UPS was in a growth mode and so this worked out but as UPS expanded into the entire United States, the growth began to slow down in the early 90's (recession hurt too).
There was a huge gap between UPS and the Teamsters regarding the expectations of the P/T going into friend/T positions. UPS expected the P/T to leave after 4 or 5 years while the Union saw a progression into friend/T driving positions.
Both UPS and the Teamsters have adapted in various ways since then but the overall quality/threshold of the friend/T UPS Driver (according to long-held beliefs) has changed considerably since the P/T to friend/T progression rate has become almost totally Union P/T to Union friend/T.
I don't have any opinions on the downward spiral of the quality of UPS employees as it reflects the reality of today's competitive environment. It is what it is and it will be in the future what it has to be.

 

[brownIEman]

We wasn't even allowed to buy stock until shortly before they went public

That started around 95 if I recall.

That was about the time we had meetings about market share dropping and the cost savings measures were started in earnest.

The few employees that bought as much as they could for the 4 years leading up to the IPO made out well.

 

[brownIEman]

I'm not sure I agree.

Going public benefited two groups of people:
1) the already filthy rich descendants of the already filthy rich founding fathers and;

2) the managers and supervisors who were rewarded with stock and "hypo-loaned" their home, wife, kids and collected beer cans to buy stock when it split (like rabbits).

The PTer and FTer that buys $50 of stock every payday really isn't benefiting.

Going public had nothing to do with 1997.

The IPO benefited everyone who owned stock in 1999. At least in the short term. In the long term it put the financial fate of that piece of their portfolio in the hands of outside forces. A privately held UPS portfolio would not have lost around 20% of it's value this year.

UPS was looking to reduce costs to better compete and get capital to expand into other markets. That effort failed spectacularly in 97 and undoubtedly hastened the decision to go public if it did not cement the decision entirely.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

The IPO benefited everyone who owned stock in 1999. At least in the short term. In the long term it put the financial fate of that piece of their portfolio in the hands of outside forces. A privately held UPS portfolio would not have lost around 20% of it's value this year.

UPS was looking to reduce costs to better compete and get capital to expand into other markets. That effort failed spectacularly in 97 and undoubtedly hastened the decision to go public if it did not cement the decision entirely.

YYYUUUUPPP!

A privately held UPS would have a P/E Ratio of 12-14%.

Even with the precipitous drop of the last couple months, the UPS Stock P/E
did not quite reach the upper range of 14%.
Ergo, UPS's stock price never dropped down to the highest it would ever be priced under a Privately Held UPS.

I remember all the excitement of DIVERSIFICATION!
We did keep some of the technology acquisitions from that Oz Land period.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

That started around 95 if I recall.

That was about the time we had meetings about market share dropping and the cost savings measures were started in earnest.

The few employees that bought as much as they could for the 4 years leading up to the IPO made out well.

If I recall correctly I believe you had to buy a block of 20 at a time.

 

[DELACROIX]

Surprising that Old Man did not bring up the "thrift plan". It was topped at 6 dollars a week and open to All UPS employees (union or not). It was eliminated around the mid nineties with an option to buy UPS stock with it's interest gains. The option was also sort of of an IRA/401K with all the penalties applied. It was just before the stock went public.

The l997 Strike was a power struggle with Corporate and the IBT on control of the Pension trusts, primarily the Central States Plan. The company saw the underfunding issue many moons before the l997 strike and it was a despair attempt to save future liabilities. It did not change any governing bodies opinions on their attitudes toward their employees or partners, it was a business decision that went south. They underestimated the resolve of their Union workers and Carey worked them over big time. If it was not for the strike in "97" there
would never be any opportunity for any inside full time positions, all the 22.3's would still be part time and getting part time hours and be in the company controlled pension plan that is formulated to pay peanuts compared to a full time pension benefit.

Oz statement I guess relates to the Morrow II employees that Scott D managed in the early nineties. Whatever happen to those guys anyway?

In my area rumors were everywhere before the stock went public, we had long term managers refinancing or mortgaging out their homes to buy it just before it on the markets. I guess it was not inside trading, just clever decision making.

Ancient history 101...

 

[Popeye]

In my area rumors were everywhere before the stock went public, we had long term managers refinancing or mortgaging out their homes to buy it just before it on the markets. I guess it was not inside trading, just clever decision making.

Ancient history 101...

This is very true. According to public records, CFO Bob Clanin and Sales/Markeing Management Committe member John Alden’s UPS holdings increased dramatically in the year or so leading up to the IPO. They appeared to leverage to the max to buy UPS stock.They both retired shortly after the IPO. There was a lot of inside information being shared around the Corporate office. I’m surprised Clanin and Alden didn’t go to jail. Besides the inside traders, the biggest IPO beneficiaries were the staff managers and above who were sitting on a lot of options when the IPO hit. Many of theses same folks were also inside traders of course.

 

[The Real Jack RyanMI6]

What would UPS be like to work for had the strike not occurred, when or if we would be a public company.
UPS was never an easy company to work for. It required dedication and compliance with many rules.
UPS put out in 2000-2003 several memos to employees that UPS would not be 'our' Paternal protector in regards to "hire to grave" that it had been. All UPS employees were considered part of a big family ... that was the culture.

Would pt employees stayed full time, ( I understand there was a time all were ft) what would Wages for pt and ft and management be at current or below or higher.
I started in 1973 and there were P/T galore.
Wages would be pretty much the same as now for Union people ... way above industry average.
Market conditions have driven the Non-Union salaries and wages down to industry average.
Consequently, Non-operations management are not expected to work the hours like they did prior to 2003

22.4s would they exist,etc.
22.3 would not exist in my opinion but 22.4 may have developed.

Please elaborate as much as you care to or can give your experiences within the UPS system and culture.
When I started with UPS, the ratio of outside to P/T going friend/T was 1 to 1.
UPS told the P/T that they had to be in college and were expected to leave UPS when they graduated.
I was approached by UPS management as I approached graduation and they explained to me the benefits of going into friend/T Management so I stayed with UPS when it was offered. (I quit a friend/T Engineering job to go friend/T with UPS)

I think in the 1977 contract and in the early 80's, the expectations of a P/T going to friend/T driving began to progress in the direction it is today. I was in Personnel (Human Resources) for 4 years in the early 1980's and I never hired a P/T employee that was not a student except during Peak Season.
UPS was in a growth mode and so this worked out but as UPS expanded into the entire United States, the growth began to slow down in the early 90's (recession hurt too).
There was a huge gap between UPS and the Teamsters regarding the expectations of the P/T going into friend/T positions. UPS expected the P/T to leave after 4 or 5 years while the Union saw a progression into friend/T driving positions.
Both UPS and the Teamsters have adapted in various ways since then but the overall quality/threshold of the friend/T UPS Driver (according to long-held beliefs) has changed considerably since the P/T to friend/T progression rate has become almost totally Union P/T to Union friend/T.
I don't have any opinions on the downward spiral of the quality of UPS employees as it reflects the reality of today's competitive environment. It is what it is and it will be in the future what it has to be.

Thank you for your insight JR

 

[Popeye]

YYYUUUUPPP!

A privately held UPS would have a P/E Ratio of 12-14%.

Even with the precipitous drop of the last couple months, the UPS Stock P/E
did not quite reach the upper range of 14%.
Ergo, UPS's stock price never dropped down to the highest it would ever be priced under a Privately Held UPS.

I remember all the excitement of DIVERSIFICATION!
We did keep some of the technology acquisitions from that Oz Land period.

True, but when you effectively forced to buy/hold the stick via MIP, RSUs, etc. having the price fluctuate wildly is a whole different ballgame than when the company was private and the price was more stable. Back then putting all your eggs in the big brown basket was not the same deal as it is now. As has been stated before, MIP was enhanced from a bonus to another way for them to bone us.

 

[Coldworld]

We wasn't even allowed to buy stock until shortly before they went public

Managers were upset that the teamsters were going to be able to buy their almighty brown stock....heard that a couple times when I started to buy some when it became available to us teamster scum....

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

Managers were upset that the teamsters were going to be able to buy their almighty brown stock....heard that a couple times when I started to buy some when it became available to us teamster scum....

And now the company is run much better with outsiders owning the stock.....

 

[brownIEman]

Managers were upset that the teamsters were going to be able to buy their almighty brown stock....heard that a couple times when I started to buy some when it became available to us teamster scum....

I call BS. Maybe one or 2 bone heads were peeved at the decision. Most management were happy to try and get drivers on board with having a vested interest in the company doing well financially. I never met a management person who thought that was a bad idea.

The opening to non management purchasing stock was not limited to bargaining unit employees btw. Non union, non management employees such as technical and clerical employees were also allowed to buy at that time.

 

[UPSER1987]

Managers were upset that the teamsters were going to be able to buy their almighty brown stock....heard that a couple times when I started to buy some when it became available to us teamster scum....

Got to agree...this is complete BS. The communication in my area was for all employees to buy stock...regardless of job classification so all employees had incentive for the company to do well.

 

[Popeye]

Here's how to interpret this latest Total Rewards "enhancement". If you are eligible to retire, UPS wants you gone. If you didn't take the VRP you friend'ed up. They tried to dangle the carrot to get you to leave but it didn't work. Now they're switching to the stick. If you were going to retire in 2019 they want you gone NOW, not later in the year. If you decide AGAIN to hang around despite the signals they are sending you, you should expect bad things to continue to happen to you until you get the message. This is the phrase from the announcement to keep in mind. "This change aligns with the ONGOING evaluation of UPS’s Total Rewards programs." (Caps added by me for emphasis)

 

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

Going public had been considered for over 15 years prior to 1999.
The market conditions were there prior to 1997 but the Board was reluctant to go public because they knew it would change the culture at UPS and the Board and Management Committee felt a paternal loyalty to its employees ... both Union and non-Union.
After the disloyalty and abandonment by the Union employees in 1997, that sense of loyalty and paternal relationship was gone and so the UPS BOD and Management Committee made the change to go public.
It's all current history after that.

Like you, I am completely perplexed how many of the Union employees do not understand that 1997 was a turning point in UPS's decision to go public.

Opinions are just that. Lol.

 

[UPSER1987]

Opinions are just that. Lol.

So what are you here for? The entire forum is nothing but opinions. Lol!

 

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

So what are you here for? The entire forum is nothing but opinions. Lol!

I am here to practice sarcasm and stuff.

 

[bowhnterdon]

Managers were upset that the teamsters were going to be able to buy their almighty brown stock....heard that a couple times when I started to buy some when it became available to us teamster scum....

I agree .The notion that we were all a happy family before the strike is complete BS. I started in 1983 and if that was a “Family “, I am glad I made my own...

 

[Coldworld]

I agree .The notion that we were all a happy family before the strike is complete BS. I started in 1983 and if that was a “Family “, I am glad I made my own...

I figured they were more two faced back then but I agree I never felt the love like some of these guys say happen...