OSHA Strikes Again!

[antimatter]

"OSHA is run by a bunch of psychotic liberals who hide behind worker safety."

Add :"ROSE COLORED GLASSES ALERT" to the TIN FOIL HAT ALERT.

No one ever gets REALLY hurt, right? Tie's post is a perfect example of how a third party is necessary to promote/enforce worker safety. Most UPS "workers" I know believe management couldn't care less about our overall health & safety.

A

 

[kidlogic]

It's not that no one ever gets hurt, but it is never the work enviorment that causes it. When we first started saftey committee in our building we found over 60 hazzards. We got them all fixed because OSHA had been very active in our area. I say it is far better to be over cautious on the side of the workers then to be under cautious and have someone get hurt or killed then raise the bar.

(Message edited by Kidlogic on July 29, 2003)

 

[local804]

Anti,
I am with you 100% on your post.I will bet my life that if injuries on the job had nothing to do with UPS managments total service plan ( percentage calculated with all other numbers on the job) they would NOT care as much.The more comps they get, it goes into a numbers game with who is the best and least best in the district. I will say it one more time....I am 100% convinced that if workers comp had nothing to do with numbers, management could care less. I stand very strong on this point, as well as others I am sure. The safety committee was only create for ONE reason and one reason only. UPS has 2x the national average of osha reported claims (missed 1 or more days of work). UPS agreed with OSHA to create the committee with managment and union employees. I know there are just a few (tieguy) that will not agree with this post, but they really, really must look at the big picture. IT IS WHAT IT IS !!!!!!!!!!

 

[brown39]

UPS has had safety committees and safety groups set up in every district for over 50 years, a long time before OSHA. Safety training and safety reward plans have been in place for just as long. To think that it is just a show is a terrible injustice to those individuals past and present who have labored long and hard on making UPS a safe place to work, with the company standing behind and paying for all the efforts. The company cannot be blamed if the union fights attempts to organize safety teams throughout the operations. And you bet that the union does not want UPS to be safe, that would deny them a argument that backs their own existence.

 

[kidlogic]

Brown39 I have been with UPS for 17 years and in many centers in my state. There were no saftey committees in any centers until our state started to target the 200 worst saftey businesses in the state. So you are incorrect on that.
As a safety co-chair I have worked very hard to make changes. I do PCM's. I talk to guys on the side, I do demostrations, but when it comes to managment putting safety infront of cost or production forget it. You make it sound like they are just giving the money away. UPS is not. I would say when we find a safety hazzard in our center that the saftey committee and managment both agree as needing to be fixed. I would say 80% if the cost is over 100$ to fix we dont get it.
As I have said before in many post. We have guys who run and gun all day . No lunch no breaks . No matter how much work you give them in by 5pm. Then managment wants to disipline them when the accidents or injuries start adding up. Why dont they stop the problem before the accidents happend by telling them to do the job as they were taught. It is not a race. You run your route like it is and you will surely be having injuries and accidents.
Blaming the Union for safety short falls is not the answer at all. Having Union employees doing observations on other employees in the name of safety rubs people the wrong way. They feel that is a managment person place. I have tried doing observations as part of my saftey plan and people get offended. Also with managment giving out warning letters for unsafe work. Safety is often caught in the middle which is wrong and not our place. Make a Union freindly format instead of this one and maybe us on the safety committe could get more support.

 

[tieguy]

Is it your point that you can't run and gun and still be safe?

 

[antimatter]

Kid,
I agree. Cost has always been placed before safety. Anybody with experience at UPS knows this to be fact. We too, have tried to implement programs, etc. to promote safer work methods and environments but the almighty dollar gets in the way every time.

Brown39,
To say the Union wants injuries is puzzling. Tough to pay dues when you can't work anymore, so I don't agree with that theory.

Tie,
I think you CAN Run 'N Gun and be safe, but the probability for injury goes up along with the SPORH. It's common sense... which explains why some cannot see it.

A

 

[wkmac]

The simple fact is there's truth in what everyone is saying on this issue. OSHA wasn't created as a result of UPS. IMO OHSA is a result of lazy insurance companies who wanted to protect the claims window but wanted to provide no effort or cost on their part to do this. They got the public to pay and the gov't to be their police force rather than policing the industry in America and then charging out the nose for those high claim violators. And as Dennis Miller sez, "That's my opinion but I could be wrong!"

There are other industries, construction for example, who had and in some cases still do have more accidents than UPS and they didn't wake up one day and implement safety reforms. I'll bet in many cases there was a lot of foot dragging and screams that accompanied these safety reforms. UPS in some cases is no different because everyone is to some degree this way. When you've got a District or Division Manager down your throat about production or service then I'm not surprised when that supervisor or center manager lets safety slide by in the hopes the risk won't bite him/her. And there are supervisors and center managers who only care when the Dist. or Div. manager cares too.

On the flip side I'll bet everyone of us here at some point has made a judgement call of evaluating the risks and then by-passed safety to do our jobs. "Oh but my supervisor or center manager put me in that situation to begin with to make his/her numbers look good!" Ah, see how your supervisor might react when the heat from upstairs is on him/her? You just reacted the same exact way!

With medicals costs rising almost daily and add in the potential legal risks, safety has achieved a place on the balance sheet now and is more and more becoming a part of the bottomline. Considering what I've seen in the last 22 years from my own vantage point, I believe for whatever reason UPS overall is serious about safety. But I also don't discount the Corp. Settlement Agreement (CSA) with OSHA as having "accelerated" that "coming to Jesus!"

Overall, I still believe that the general welfare clause of the US Constitution doesn't justify the gov't authority to create OSHA and that nothing in the US Constitution grants the authority either. In fact, Art.1 Sec.8 clause 17 prohibits such measures but that's another issue all together and you think we fight over UPS!

 

[kidlogic]

So WKMAC you rambled on for 43 lines and walked the fence. Come on..You actually believe that if we didnt have OSHA that big business would police themselves? Yeah we all trust big business to do the right thing..not. Wether you think it's legal (and it is) or not OSHA sets a high bar and lives have been saved because of them.
Your comment that we may take risks on our own doing some how justifies another human to play god with ours is a crock. And if for some reason you think that all employees are going to be responsible for themselves you would be wrong. No one goes out and says I am going to get hurt today. It is management position to set the tone and they dont. Like I have said before the tipical employee will never care about anything in their job more than how they precieve management does.

 

[local804]

Big Brown, Safety committee started up within the past 10 years in NY.........Like I said, when UPS and OSHA in our district both agreed too many UPSers were getting hurt.

 

[local804]

I think a good pitch would be for the safety committee to find ways so we could stop doing thousands of repetitive motions through out the day. We all must shift the same motion between 500 to 1000 times a day. Or how about lowering the steps on the p1000. Some of the trucks in the 80`s, the bottom step is 23 inches off the ground. Thats 1/3 the height of the average man.Or how about the diesel fumes on the box lines.The list goes on and on about what they can really do to help us instead of telling us remove the trash from our cars and make sure you sign the dvir.GET REAL!!!!

 

[toonertoo]

Safety committee in my center needs help. Of course the only people who attend the meetings get off at 430 pm, not 8. I feel when you have hours left after pickups, it contributes to injuries. I know the worst days for injuries are Fridays, I wonder what time they happen? And how do they come up with the worst injury list anyhow? I havent had a lost time injury since 1996, but i am No2. But if a person has one injury that has recurred for 50 yrs, it only counts as 1.
I brought that to the attention of my management and they didnt have an answer, couldnt even tell me why I was on the list. Dog bites, cuts and scrapes, things you report just to be safe as they drill into your head to do, all count against you though. what a CROCK!!!!! I think continual harrassment about things that cant be changed, (obviously if I havent had an injury in 6yrs), I have done something better, also contribute to it. And being labeled as worst, when others are sucking up the comp over and over, and getting catered to because of it really frustrates me. I dont know what this has to do with OSHA, but I needed to vent.

Thanks

(Message edited by toonertoo on July 30, 2003)

 

[tieguy]

"Cost has always been placed before safety."

Anti,
In a sense your statement is an oxy-maroon. Injuries and accidents are much more costly then any other number we track. In todays world I would agree that your daily indices such as production and service may get more scrutiny on a daily basis but not more importance. Most buildings and major operations have one supervisor who is responsible for the Chsp / safety issues. This has now evolved to the point that the majority of that sups time is often dedicated towards it. Its certainly your right to say we can do more but you also have to give credit to the fact that this company spends much much more not only on the preventive side but also for the actual expense of having an injury or accident. The safety committe is like your union everyone has to contribute for it to be effective.

 

[rushfan]

OSHA knows it can fund its coffers with UPS money-UPS has deep pockets.

I delivered to the local OSHA office today. Some overweight OSHA guy complained that he was an underpaid government employee. No wonder why that building has those self defibrillators on every floor. Everyone there is overweight....(yes I know I'm insensitive). You know those things minimally trained people can shock a person back to life in the event of myocardial infarction (heart attack).
Anyone who delivers to government buildings can see where our tax money is wasted. Overstaffed offices, and meetings that have nothing to do with each office.

A clerk in one office told me she had to take 2 full days worth of advanced first aid classes for no reason. She even said what a waste of tax money.

My opinion, and it won't happen, fire and restructure all branches of the federal government. Streamline the offices, etc....

Hell, be like UPS!!!!

 

[kidlogic]

Tie come on man. You mean the first thing a center manager checks first thing in the morning when they come to work is to see if everyone had a safe day the day before? That when a supervisor comes up to a driver in the morning and says "you had a bad day yesterday " it was because he saw you missing a hand rail? That when dispatching for the day he looks at a heavy run and says "too much work could lead to accident. You know since safety is the number one expense". I got to stop I am making myself laugh.
Safety isnt the number one item under cost. In fact it is 10th as of 2001 and rising. UPS doesnt spend more for it's accidents then eveyone else. If UPS wasnt self insured the cost would be alot higher. You think that an insurance company would take on UPS every year knowing that those cost are rising. They would have to figure the rising cost then add a buffer for profit and for the potential of a very bad year. In the end UPS would be paying what they are now plus alot more. This is why when you deliver to small industrial stops it is like a prison. No admittance without hard hats and glasses. Big wide walking areas with areas maked with yellow where work is to be preformed. People walking around checking to make sure they follow rules. The reason...A spike in injuries would mean a raise in premiums for their insurance for years to come.

 

[antimatter]

"Anti, In a sense your statement is an oxy-maroon."

Yeah I understand that. But my comment was leaning more toward (hypothetically speaking) the Company drilling 3 drivers with too much work verus creating a 4th route to spread the volume around. Too much work creates situations where we all look for shortcuts in methods. And that contributes to injuries... remove the "need" for shortcuts and it will be a bit safer. THAT is what I meant re: Cost vs. Safety. And it can be done intelligently. So don't counter with "we have a business to run" which really means "we don't give a crap about you or safety, just shut up and do your job'.

We used to get warning letters for EVERY SINGLE INJURY no matter how slight! Even a minor cut!!!! That practice was discontinued out here on the West coast with the last contract. It was absurd.

A

 

[local804]

That is the same exact thing that happens on the east coast .UPS has gone as far, to keep from filing an osha reportable claim,(missing one or more days of work falls under this category) have the workers come in the following day and watch safety movies for 4 hours and clean windshields for the other four.They then are allowed to do light duty(which UPS swares they have no spots for the guys on longterm comp)for a maximum of 30 working days.Either its fudging numbers or fooling the system, they do not have to file this accident report to OSHA. What a crock!!!

 

[kidlogic]

Local840 the reason for the light duty is easy. You see when a worker goes out on comp. The building is charge $600 plus dollars for every day that employee is out. If the center has them come in for 2 hours the center is now charged only $90 dollars. UPS found out that if you have a guy come in everyday to work that employee will come back to work sooner if left alone. Ask Tie he tell ya.

 

[tieguy]

"Tie come on man. You mean the first thing a center manager checks first thing in the morning when they come to work is to see if everyone had a safe day the day before? "

Kid did you read the post your responding to?

 

[kidlogic]

Why yes I did Tieguy. I was poking fun at your comment that UPS gives equal value to safety as production numbers. If you read the context of the paragraph (it shows if one believes your post on UPS giving equal wieght to safety as production numbers and how safety is the number one cost item tracked) how a management person would act if your post was true.But I had to stop because I was having a hard time typing because I was laughing so hard.