Poll: APWA-Support or Oppose

[Cole]

I've seen you refer to this many times in regards to the strength of our union. For someone who claims to have 18 years of experience as a steward you are not familiar with the contract you supposedly know so well.

Article 18, Section 14 reads as such:

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]"All new package cars, P-32 and larger, added to the fleet after January 1, 1994, shall be equipped with package compartment venting. "[/FONT]


[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]"All new package cars placed into service after August 1, 1997, shall be equipped with power steering."[/FONT][/FONT]

And therein lies the weakness, 'all new trucks'!​

I haven't seen any ventilation in the new trucks, and all that means, is that once they get around to getting 'new' trucks, they should have ventilation, but as already stated, there's no enforcement of the contract. Big on talk, little on walk.​

So it's 2007, and I am yet to see the ventilation. How about powersteering in every truck. Also automatics would be easier on the body.​

You also left out the rest. "Upon ratification of this agreement, the climatic conditions committee shall meet to evaluate and, if needed, recommend appropriate method(s) for venting the package compartments. The installation of cab compartment fans will be determined by individual districts.​

Please show the minutes of this Climatic Conditions Committee, and who is on it, the pension they get for being on it, etc...etc...It probably should be interpreted as, we will meet and play golf together, and laugh at what little work is involved with that committee.​

As far as whether either was a steward that is an excellent question, and to be honest I didn't ask when we met. I will however, ask that. Also I think people should question them about the attorney, and find out just what his duties are etc...​

 

[over9five]

I think it's glaringly obvious to all of us (APWA cheerleaders included), that this is wholly operated by UPS.

There is just no way two drivers from South Carolina could have pulled this even this far.

I think if it ever gets to the North (hasn't yet, never even heard of APWA off of this site), we will quash it hard. Whatever is wrong with you people in support of this untried..... group..... just won't happen here.

You can see this is totally orchestrated by UPS, can't you???? Maybe you agree with everything APWA says, but you can still see it's run by UPS, right??? YOU SEE THAT, DON'T YOU?

 

[over9five]

I mean, it's a smart business move for UPS. If I were Eskew, I would secretly finance the APWA too.

Imagine going from the Teamsters to a company "good ol boy" union with no experience, AND absolutely ZERO clout.

It's a great move and a solid business decision.

Find two malcontents, and lead them in the right direction! Hook them up with a good union busting lawfirm. Then find more [-]suckers[/-] malcontents nationwide, and tell them if they send in their $150, THEY'LL be in on the ground floor of this historic movement.

I GUARANTEE you, whoever thought this up is getting a BIIIIIIIIIGGGGGG raise.

Excellent business plan.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

I'm not buying into the whole "UPS is trying to bust the union" theory. It's not a totally unrealistic theory but just so far fetched. I mean Jim Casey encouraged unionizing. The APWA may be new and untried but the IBT was too in the beginning.

 

[705red]

I'm not buying into the whole "UPS is trying to bust the union" theory. It's not a totally unrealistic theory but just so far fetched. I mean Jim Casey encouraged unionizing. The APWA may be new and untried but the IBT was too in the beginning.

I buy it, look who their catering to the upsers who only worry about their bonus, loading their trucks for free, working through their lunches. Just imagine if its true how pleasant of a workplace would it be if the ups sponsored union took over?

 

[satellitedriver]

I like how you avoid replying to most of my post with lame comments on the definition of a maroon. When your ready to have a real debate let me know.

Avoid most of your post?
You are telling an untruth.
You posted:

Quote:
Originally Posted by brett636
Exactly, their pension payouts are based on a best case scenario. Throw in one good recession or one bad investment choice and pension payouts will drop. Are you going to advocate a change of unions then as well? Their plan as far as I can tell only involves the pension. Now I don't know about you, but every week I receive a paycheck, not a pension. I have medical, vacation, and other benefits to be concerned with. The APWA has nothing to bargain with as they have no strike fund, so the union's only real weapon, the strike, is useless. I can only imagine how bad that first contract would be. Luckily this group does not have the support it claims to have, and will not be the bargaining agent for UPSers within my lifetime. Maybe one day a real union, with real experienced officers, and a real history will come along to fix this pension issue, or maybe it will be fixed in the meantime. As for now the only place the APWA has support are the few morons such as yourself on this message board.

In this post you brought up 5 points.


In my reply to your post, I posted :

If the AWPA pension is based on a best case scenario, then why did teamsters Central States S.E. & S.W. report a 14.5% return for 2006 and we still are only funded at 59%?The AWPA plan in based on a 12.5% return invested in Income Fund of America. (Just do a simple google search to find it.)
The same recession would effect all funds.
Why is it that CS blames the drop in 2002 of the stock market to reduce our pensions, while other funds rebounded and are fully funded? Could it possibly be bad investment management?
Good point about receiving a paycheck, better point that you are not receiving a pension.
Strike fund, that should be a strong selling point to stay with the teamsters. Did you receive your $50.00 check in 1997? Did the teamsters union take out their union dues of $40.00. After taxes you could not buy lunch with that big strike fund check.
You ponder that maybe one day a real union will come along. How about building one from the ground up that only benefits UPSer's?
I do not know where you get the data that APWA is only supported on this board and no where else.
Sorry about the "I think not" comment, it was just too easy of a shot and I took it.
Now to the point of you trying to be insulting with the term morons, maybe I can help you with that. A maroon is the highest classification of mental deficiency,( ranging about 50 to 75 on the standard intelligence quotient scale) above imbecle and idiot. So, if you think someone is an idiot and you call them a maroon ,you actually are giving them a compliment.
Pax

I commented on all 5 of your points.

Doesn't look like avoidance of most of your post.

You state that you like they way the majority of my post concerned the definition of maroon. This to is a falsehood.
My post contained 19 lines and only 5 pertained to the use of the word maroon.
Doing simple fuzzy math, that equals roughly 30% of the post. Hardly a majority.
Lame as my mini-tutorial on the use of the term maroon may have been, at least it was factual.
So, I hope this post meets your requirements of replying to the majority your post.
Finally,
Common practice in this forum, for most users, is when replying to a multi-positioned post is to single out the points they wish to address. So using your "fuzzy" logic, if not every single thing is replied to, all is negated.
What is your definition of a real debate?

 

[satellitedriver]

I buy it, look who their catering to the upsers who only worry about their bonus, loading their trucks for free, working through their lunches. Just imagine if its true how pleasant of a workplace would it be if the ups sponsored union took over?

How did you uncover our super secret plot? I was at a meeting with the twins,their lawyer and Dick Cheney,(in a undisclosed secret location) plotting the overthrow of the teamsters and using the ill gotten gains of the pension fund to get the Republicans back in power, when I learned you were on to us. Thank God UPS provided me a corporate jet to fly home and get to my computer to try and spin control this leak of evidence. But, I think your buying it and spreading the truth about the evil plot means my doom. I will bite down on the poison pill imbedded in my false molar to prevent all from knowing that the removal of the teamsters from UPS was just the first move on the chess board of our master plan.
Before I chomp down on my pill would you please tell me how you uncovered our plot?

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

How did you uncover our super secret plot? I was at a meeting with the twins,their lawyer and Dick Cheney,(in a undisclosed secret location) plotting the overthrow of the teamsters and using the ill gotten gains of the pension fund to get the Republicans back in power, when I learned you were on to us. Thank God UPS provided me a corporate jet to fly home and get to my computer to try and spin control this leak of evidence. But, I think your buying it and spreading the truth about the evil plot means my doom. I will bite down on the poison pill imbedded in my false molar to prevent all from knowing that the removal of the teamsters from UPS was just the first move on the chess board of our master plan.
Before I chomp down on my pill would you please tell me how you uncovered our plot?

I guess the supposed union busting agenda for the APWA and UPS is about all the IBT Faithfull can come up with. I think people have just gotten too attached to, and too dependent on, the IBT. It is blinding them of the bigger picture.

 

[Cole]

First of all, they're from North Carolina, 2nd of all, I support them, and I never scabbed accept when the local made us when Carey called for a walkout over the maximum being raised to 150 lbs, also, I was picket line captain in 97.

As far as it coming from nc etc...it's not that hard to get things moving, especially once you plug it into the feeder drivers. It can get around real quick that way.

As far as UPS involvement, they did their part in contributing to our pension fund, it was the Teamsters, that have caused this APWA to even be a thought.

If you think about it a union busting lawyer was hired to run the Teamsters named Hoffa Jr, and he's doing a good job of busting it, because due to the bogus pension scam, the Apwa, was formed and is growing.

If you prove UPS is behind it, then you can stop the movement, but bottom line is like it or not, people are fed up with this crap, and starting to jump on board.

What would UPS gain by having us jump from one union to another, and where all it's officers know first hand the inside and outside of the company, and will not be fanagled into turning a blind eye.

What do think, if the APWA hypothetically wins, everyone will just be appointed? Not gonna happen, this isn't central states.

 

[Cole]

Nospinzone summed it up pretty well!

 

[30andout]

UPS would have a lot to gain if the teamsters were overthrown, all the money they make would stay within UPS. Oops, thats a GOOD thing for all of us employees.

 

[brett636]

Avoid most of your post?
You are telling an untruth.
You posted:

Quote:
Originally Posted by brett636
Exactly, their pension payouts are based on a best case scenario. Throw in one good recession or one bad investment choice and pension payouts will drop. Are you going to advocate a change of unions then as well? Their plan as far as I can tell only involves the pension. Now I don't know about you, but every week I receive a paycheck, not a pension. I have medical, vacation, and other benefits to be concerned with. The APWA has nothing to bargain with as they have no strike fund, so the union's only real weapon, the strike, is useless. I can only imagine how bad that first contract would be. Luckily this group does not have the support it claims to have, and will not be the bargaining agent for UPSers within my lifetime. Maybe one day a real union, with real experienced officers, and a real history will come along to fix this pension issue, or maybe it will be fixed in the meantime. As for now the only place the APWA has support are the few morons such as yourself on this message board.

In this post you brought up 5 points.


In my reply to your post, I posted :

If the AWPA pension is based on a best case scenario, then why did teamsters Central States S.E. & S.W. report a 14.5% return for 2006 and we still are only funded at 59%?The AWPA plan in based on a 12.5% return invested in Income Fund of America. (Just do a simple google search to find it.)
The same recession would effect all funds.
Why is it that CS blames the drop in 2002 of the stock market to reduce our pensions, while other funds rebounded and are fully funded? Could it possibly be bad investment management?
Good point about receiving a paycheck, better point that you are not receiving a pension.
Strike fund, that should be a strong selling point to stay with the teamsters. Did you receive your $50.00 check in 1997? Did the teamsters union take out their union dues of $40.00. After taxes you could not buy lunch with that big strike fund check.
You ponder that maybe one day a real union will come along. How about building one from the ground up that only benefits UPSer's?
I do not know where you get the data that APWA is only supported on this board and no where else.
Sorry about the "I think not" comment, it was just too easy of a shot and I took it.
Now to the point of you trying to be insulting with the term morons, maybe I can help you with that. A maroon is the highest classification of mental deficiency,( ranging about 50 to 75 on the standard intelligence quotient scale) above imbecle and idiot. So, if you think someone is an idiot and you call them a maroon ,you actually are giving them a compliment.
Pax

I commented on all 5 of your points.

Doesn't look like avoidance of most of your post.

You state that you like they way the majority of my post concerned the definition of maroon. This to is a falsehood.
My post contained 19 lines and only 5 pertained to the use of the word maroon.
Doing simple fuzzy math, that equals roughly 30% of the post. Hardly a majority.
Lame as my mini-tutorial on the use of the term maroon may have been, at least it was factual.
So, I hope this post meets your requirements of replying to the majority your post.
Finally,
Common practice in this forum, for most users, is when replying to a multi-positioned post is to single out the points they wish to address. So using your "fuzzy" logic, if not every single thing is replied to, all is negated.
What is your definition of a real debate?

Just what I thought, a lot of fluff and no real points to be made. Like I said, when your ready for a real debate, let me know.

 

[Cole]

Anytime you're ready please "fluff" us the climatic conditions committee minutes, pension, for being on it, and anything it has done.

I'll stand by my post, that it is weak, in 2007, issues such as ventilation in the trucks, says, "new trucks", rather than all trucks as of the signing of this agreement shall have adequate ventilation, but most are used to the do little mentality of the Teamsters, so expectations are low.

So if it's not weakness, why do so many trucks not have powersteering, or ventilation?

 

[brownmonster]

UPS doesn't care who gets the $214 a week. They want to find a way to start paying less then the $214 a week. No Teamsters, no pension.

 

[satellitedriver]

Just what I thought, a lot of fluff and no real points to be made. Like I said, when your ready for a real debate, let me know.

The only point I was proving was that your post was inaccurate and untrue.

 

[brett636]

And therein lies the weakness, 'all new trucks'!​

I haven't seen any ventilation in the new trucks, and all that means, is that once they get around to getting 'new' trucks, they should have ventilation, but as already stated, there's no enforcement of the contract. Big on talk, little on walk.​

So it's 2007, and I am yet to see the ventilation. How about powersteering in every truck. Also automatics would be easier on the body.​

You also left out the rest. "Upon ratification of this agreement, the climatic conditions committee shall meet to evaluate and, if needed, recommend appropriate method(s) for venting the package compartments. The installation of cab compartment fans will be determined by individual districts.​

Please show the minutes of this Climatic Conditions Committee, and who is on it, the pension they get for being on it, etc...etc...It probably should be interpreted as, we will meet and play golf together, and laugh at what little work is involved with that committee.​

As far as whether either was a steward that is an excellent question, and to be honest I didn't ask when we met. I will however, ask that. Also I think people should question them about the attorney, and find out just what his duties are etc...​

I guess that all depends on what area you work in. My hub aquired several new trucks last year, and everyone of them has package compartment venting, automatics, and of course power steering. We also have several older trucks with those same features with close to 100k miles on a few already.

 

[30andout]

I guess that all depends on what area you work in. My hub aquired several new trucks last year, and everyone of them has package compartment venting, automatics, and of course power steering. We also have several older trucks with those same features with close to 100k miles on a few already.

No wonder your content with the present representation, you should be in the real world. Your pension hasn't been cut AND you drive new cars. We still have many old P600 and high step P800 in use daily.

 

[brett636]

No wonder your content with the present representation, you should be in the real world. Your pension hasn't been cut AND you drive new cars. We still have many old P600 and high step P800 in use daily.

We still have plenty of those too. I'm allowed to pick whatever truck we have available and most days I will get a new automatic. I've driven the old high step trucks without power steering I will admit those are a handfull to drive.

 

[westsideworma]

I have been following this thread and while I agree what the APWA sounds like a good idea, I don't see the significance of this debate...they haven't done anything yet. If they start making waves, start showing me something interesting THEN I will start giving it more serious consideration. Right now we've got the Teamsters, I don't know much about them or what they're doing, I do know we have them (and probably UPS) to thank for the PT wage. Since I'm a part timer this is the area that affects me.
Which nothing against you drivers (you deserve every bit of what you earn), should be a lot higher than what it is. You guys are paid decently compared to us. Many of us bust our butts just as much as you do (well within reason) but takes us FOREVER to make any money. I realize its a part time job (20-25+hrs, 25.5 for me normally) but it is hard work as many of you drivers know. They play the same games with us, they come down hard on us (moreso since PAS). I understand the healthcare and college money is worth something too, but bottom line...8.50 is a disgrace considering what is expected of us.

I think 12 dollars would be a good starting point or someone mentioned we should keep the rate but have progression similar to the drivers instead of the nightmare that exists now with minor differences, maybe make it 3 years and a 20 dollar top rate I don't know...but it does need attention. As it stands people don't care because they know they can make this money or more literally ANYWHERE else, some are proud to say they work for UPS (laugh if you must, but its true). I mean would you rather say you work for Shaws or UPS? Nowadays it might be a close race, but for a while it wouldnt even be close, not even close (from what I've heard of the company's proud past). Ok ok maybe thats a bit much as I'm too young to know of it, but I've had family who worked here in the past (long since retired now) and they can't believe some of the things I tell them. I am proud depending on the day to say that I work here. Sometimes (though increasingly more rare) things go so well you feel like you're part of something good....others the negative reinforcement nearly takes all the pride and ambition out of you.

I'm not sure if our choice of Union will change this. We really need to work on the people who attempt to keep us under their thumbs, whether it be the excessive overtime or overzealous supervision. If a union the way to do so, I will run with whatever one will get us more of what we all want/deserve.

 

[705red]

How did you uncover our super secret plot? I was at a meeting with the twins,their lawyer and Dick Cheney,(in a undisclosed secret location) plotting the overthrow of the teamsters and using the ill gotten gains of the pension fund to get the Republicans back in power, when I learned you were on to us. Thank God UPS provided me a corporate jet to fly home and get to my computer to try and spin control this leak of evidence. But, I think your buying it and spreading the truth about the evil plot means my doom. I will bite down on the poison pill imbedded in my false molar to prevent all from knowing that the removal of the teamsters from UPS was just the first move on the chess board of our master plan.
Before I chomp down on my pill would you please tell me how you uncovered our plot?

At least you have a sense of humor, but thats all you have. Those attorneys are they the same ones who helped you fill out your withdrawl card and encourage you to step on your brothers and sisters in 97? I sure hope you havent bit into that pill yet.(grin)