Radio Host Suspended for 'Criminaliens' Remark

[Jones]

Tie,
You can defend this guy all you want, but referring to mexicans as "primitive leeches" is unarguably racist. He's basically discussing them like vermin, referring to them as being unvaccinated and unhygienic, their womenfolk known carriers of VD, etc. The fact that you defend him by saying that he's just telling the truth is pretty disturbing, because the worst kind of racist is the one who defends his statements by saying they are "not racist because they are true". This is the sign of a true believer, one who really does believe in his heart that other races are inferior to his own. In his mind there is nothing wrong with pointing this fact out, and only a misguided liberal who foolishly believes that all men are created equal would say otherwise.

 

[wkmac]

Tie,
You can defend this guy all you want, but referring to mexicans as "primitive leeches" is unarguably racist. He's basically discussing them like vermin, referring to them as being unvaccinated and unhygienic, their womenfolk known carriers of VD, etc. The fact that you defend him by saying that he's just telling the truth is pretty disturbing, because the worst kind of racist is the one who defends his statements by saying they are "not racist because they are true". This is the sign of a true believer, one who really does believe in his heart that other races are inferior to his own. In his mind there is nothing wrong with pointing this fact out, and only a misguided liberal who foolishly believes that all men are created equal would say otherwise.

Well said Jones! Well said!

 

[diesel96]

Lets see how this plays out as we dissect the information


Now, in addition to venereal disease and the other leading exports of Mexico

are we offended because we know that mexicans have never snuck across our borders carrying any diseases?

-- women with mustaches and VD

Yep I'm sure we have women with mustaches and vd sneak across.

-- now we have swine flu...

Yep correct we did have swine flu that appears to have originated at a pig farm in mexico.

When we are the magnet for primitives around the world -- and it's not the primitives' fault, by the way, I'm not blaming them for being primitives, I'm merely observing they are primitives -- and when you scoop up some of the world's lowest of primitives in poor Mexico and drop it down in the middle of the United States -- poor, without skills, without language, not share our culture, not share our hygiene, haven't been vaccinated... Millions of leeches from a primitive country come here to leech off you...

There is a defintion for primitives that covers someone who is devoid of civilized influences which would certainly apply to the above paragraph.
No where do I see the racial reference.No where do I see xenophobia.We are much too quick to use the xenophobic racist labels when confronted with such dialogue. But in fact everything he has said is truthful. we don't have disease free high society people sneaking across our borders.

Liberals do not like discussing the riff raf coming across our borders so they tend to label anyones objections as xenophobic racism. I think you're up to the challenge so I challenge you to argue the issue rather then sit back on your textbook liberal labels.

" But in fact everything he has said is truthful"

“I heard Ambassador Peck on an interview yesterday did anybody else see or hear him? He was on FOX News, this is a white man, and he was upsetting the FOX News commentators to no end, he pointed out, a white man, an ambassador, he pointed out that what Malcolm X said when he was silenced by Elijah Mohammad was in fact true, he said Americas chickens, are coming home to roost.”

“We took this country by terror away from the Sioux, the Apache, Arikara, the Comanche, the Arapaho, the Navajo. Terrorism.
“We took Africans away from their country to build our way of ease and kept them enslaved and living in fear. Terrorism.
“We bombed Grenada and killed innocent civilians, babies, non-military personnel.
“We bombed the black civilian community of Panama with stealth bombers and killed unarmed teenage and toddlers, pregnant mothers and hard working fathers.
“We bombed Qaddafi’s home, and killed his child. Blessed are they who bash your children’s head against the rock.
“We bombed Iraq. We killed unarmed civilians trying to make a living. We bombed a plant in Sudan to pay back for the attack on our embassy, killed hundreds of hard working people, mothers and fathers who left home to go that day not knowing that they’d never get back home.
“We bombed Hiroshima. We bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon and we never batted an eye.
“Kids playing in the playground. Mothers picking up children after school. Civilians, not soldiers, people just trying to make it day by day.
“We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff that we have done overseas is now brought right back into our own front yards. America’s chickens are coming home to roost.
“Violence begets violence. Hatred begets hatred. And terrorism begets terrorism. A white ambassador said that y’all, not a black militant. Not a reverend who preaches about racism. An ambassador whose eyes are wide open and who is trying to get us to wake up and move away from this dangerous precipice upon which we are now poised. The ambassador said the people we have wounded don’t have the military capability we have. But they do have individuals who are willing to die and take thousands with them. And we need to come to grips with that.”​

Guess who's coming to dinner Tieguy ? .......Rev Wright, the guy you despice for telling the truth. The guy you wanted to start a Brown Cafe revolution against....yet, you could not bring yourself for accepting the truth coming from the Rev's mouth. Now your going to lecture us as to what is the truth, as you parse and spin this Mexican hating bigot's language. Good luck hombre.

 

[tieguy]

Tie,
You can defend this guy all you want, but referring to mexicans as "primitive leeches" is unarguably racist. .

Its arguably not racist. There is nothing in the commentary about thier being primitive that make it a racist comment. The fact is that most of those sneaking across that border are primitive in many ways when compared to your average american. Its not a racist comment it may be a countriest comment.
The xenophobe tag clearly does not apply because there is no fear in the comment. Disgust perhaps but clearly not fear.

Liberals love free speech as long as it does not disagree with them.

 

[tieguy]

" But in fact everything he has said is truthful"

“I heard Ambassador Peck on an interview yesterday did anybody else see or hear him? He was on FOX News, this is a white man, and he was upsetting the FOX News commentators to no end, he pointed out, a white man, an ambassador, he pointed out that what Malcolm X said when he was silenced by Elijah Mohammad was in fact true, he said Americas chickens, are coming home to roost.”

“We took this country by terror away from the Sioux, the Apache, Arikara, the Comanche, the Arapaho, the Navajo. Terrorism.

“We took Africans away from their country to build our way of ease and kept them enslaved and living in fear. Terrorism.
“We bombed Grenada and killed innocent civilians, babies, non-military personnel.
“We bombed the black civilian community of Panama with stealth bombers and killed unarmed teenage and toddlers, pregnant mothers and hard working fathers.
“We bombed Qaddafi’s home, and killed his child. Blessed are they who bash your children’s head against the rock.
“We bombed Iraq. We killed unarmed civilians trying to make a living. We bombed a plant in Sudan to pay back for the attack on our embassy, killed hundreds of hard working people, mothers and fathers who left home to go that day not knowing that they’d never get back home.
“We bombed Hiroshima. We bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon and we never batted an eye.
“Kids playing in the playground. Mothers picking up children after school. Civilians, not soldiers, people just trying to make it day by day.
“We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff that we have done overseas is now brought right back into our own front yards. America’s chickens are coming home to roost.
“Violence begets violence. Hatred begets hatred. And terrorism begets terrorism. A white ambassador said that y’all, not a black militant. Not a reverend who preaches about racism. An ambassador whose eyes are wide open and who is trying to get us to wake up and move away from this dangerous precipice upon which we are now poised. The ambassador said the people we have wounded don’t have the military capability we have. But they do have individuals who are willing to die and take thousands with them. And we need to come to grips with that.”​

Guess who's coming to dinner Tieguy ? .......Rev Wright, the guy you despice for telling the truth. The guy you wanted to start a Brown Cafe revolution against....yet, you could not bring yourself for accepting the truth coming from the Rev's mouth. Now your going to lecture us as to what is the truth, as you parse and spin this Mexican hating bigot's language. Good luck hombre.

I continue to be surprised that you folks continue living in such a hateful country.

 

[JimJimmyJames]

I think a racist is a person who believes that one group of people is biologically superior to another. That is ridiculous.

But, I do think we can make value judgements when it comes to culture. All cultures are not created equal. And Mexico, sadly, has a failed culture.

I am not saying it is a total failure, but fundamentally, when it comes to providing a sustainable livelihood for it's citizenry, it is still a failure.

 

[wkmac]

I think a racist is a person who believes that one group of people is biologically superior to another. That is ridiculous.

But, I do think we can make value judgements when it comes to culture. All cultures are not created equal. And Mexico, sadly, has a failed culture.

I am not saying it is a total failure, but fundamentally, when it comes to providing a sustainable livelihood for it's citizenry, it is still a failure.

Jim,

I won't kid you that there is an old part of me that wants to completely agree with what you said and in some ways, your points are valid. However, some years ago, I began to accept a premise, principle(s) if you will and here they are.

And that all men may be restrained from invading others' rights, and from doing hurt to one another, and the law of nature be observed, which willeth the peace and preservation of all mankind

John Locke Second Treatise, Chapter 2

Whenever violence is used, and injury done, though by hands appointed to administer justice, it is still violence and injury, however coloured with the name, pretences, or forms of law

John Locke Second Treatise, Chapter 3

For then mankind will be in a far worse condition than in the state of nature, if they shall have armed one or a few men with the joint power of a multitude, to force them to obey at pleasure the exorbitant and unlimited decrees of their sudden thoughts, or unrestrained, and till that moment unknown wills without having any measures set down which may guide and justify their actions

John Locke Second Treatise, Chapter 11

Everyone has property in his own person. This nobody has any right to but himself. The labour of his body, and the work of his hands, we may say, are properly his

John Locke Second Treatise, Chapter 5

Tyranny is the exercise of power beyond right, which nobody can have a right to

John Locke Second Treatise, Chapter 18

(Tyranny is) ... when the governor, however entitled, makes not the law, but his will, the rule; and his commands and actions are not directed to the preservation of the properties of his people, but the satisfaction of his own ambition, revenge, covetousness, or any other irregular passion

John Locke Second Treatise, Chapter 18

Section 1. That all men are by nature equally free and independent and have certain inherent rights, of which, when they enter into a state of society, they cannot, by any compact, deprive or divest their posterity; namely, the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of acquiring and possessing property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety.

Virginia Declarations of Rights written by George Mason

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Declaration of Independence

Now Jim, as I read these various statements of history that in fact played huge factors in forming our nation in the first placed I always saw the same words over and over again. Mankind, All Men, Everyone and in no case did I come away with the thinking that these "truths" are limited to a certain geographic area made up of certain peoples of a specific origin. I think we'd both agree that today our gov't is not doing a real good job on the homefront observing these ideals but here's the challenge I faced years ago and have yet to overcome.

Looking at ourselves, western european man and western european culture, where did we not violate these very principles in relation to Mexico or where did European colonialism not violate these principles as they relate to Mexico and where has the current Mexican gov't (blood kin of Neo-Spanish colonial rule) also not violated the above principles? Also, if you so subjugate and destroy a people's linage to their land, at what point does "homeland loyality" disappear and a life of nomadism takes form as a means of pure survival?

The poor mexican may be a symptom and that symptom may bring risks and consequences, but at the same time, he's not the root cause. The root cause is at the top, not at the bottom!

I always find it interesting that in numerous places in the "Good Book" are words to the effect, "that the results (consequences) of sin will visit (be felt) to the 3rd and 4th generations. Today, experts a plenty show how sexual misdeeds can propogate into suceeding generations, other abuses manifest through the years or how criminal elements breed families of criminal element. Smokers breed smokers or drunks breed drunks.

Or Tyrants and despots breed children who themselves become the same and are so blinded by their own sin as they fail to even see it. I think the "Good Book" had a point!

Amen!

 

[tieguy]

Jim,

I won't kid you that there is an old part of me that wants to completely agree with what you said and in some ways, your points are valid. However, some years ago, I began to accept a premise, principle(s) if you will and here they are.



John Locke Second Treatise, Chapter 2



John Locke Second Treatise, Chapter 3



John Locke Second Treatise, Chapter 11



John Locke Second Treatise, Chapter 5



John Locke Second Treatise, Chapter 18



John Locke Second Treatise, Chapter 18



Virginia Declarations of Rights written by George Mason



Declaration of Independence

Now Jim, as I read these various statements of history that in fact played huge factors in forming our nation in the first placed I always saw the same words over and over again. Mankind, All Men, Everyone and in no case did I come away with the thinking that these "truths" are limited to a certain geographic area made up of certain peoples of a specific origin. I think we'd both agree that today our gov't is not doing a real good job on the homefront observing these ideals but here's the challenge I faced years ago and have yet to overcome.

Looking at ourselves, western european man and western european culture, where did we not violate these very principles in relation to Mexico or where did European colonialism not violate these principles as they relate to Mexico and where has the current Mexican gov't (blood kin of Neo-Spanish colonial rule) also not violated the above principles? Also, if you so subjugate and destroy a people's linage to their land, at what point does "homeland loyality" disappear and a life of nomadism takes form as a means of pure survival?

The poor mexican may be a symptom and that symptom may bring risks and consequences, but at the same time, he's not the root cause. The root cause is at the top, not at the bottom!

I always find it interesting that in numerous places in the "Good Book" are words to the effect, "that the results (consequences) of sin will visit (be felt) to the 3rd and 4th generations. Today, experts a plenty show how sexual misdeeds can propogate into suceeding generations, other abuses manifest through the years or how criminal elements breed families of criminal element. Smokers breed smokers or drunks breed drunks.

Or Tyrants and despots breed children who themselves become the same and are so blinded by their own sin as they fail to even see it. I think the "Good Book" had a point!

Amen!

We continue to evolve on different planets. I think you disagree with Jimmys points which I thought were valid you then gave us a multi-linked response of multiple quotes which was supposed to tell us why you disagreed with jimmys valid points. I think . Kind of like giving us the organic chemistry of lighter fluid when all I asked for was another can to get the barbecue going.

 

[JimJimmyJames]

wkmac, I will be the first to agree that our values should not just be applied to ourselves but to all of mankind. To quote myself from another thread:

...I think one can find what might be the fatal flaw of our civilization. It is not our culture, per se, but our actions that suggest we believe that no one is entitled to it but ourselves.

Our heritage of liberal democracy, human rights, and the rule of law are not fundamental flaws but universal strengths. The problem is, we frequently act as if these concepts really only apply to ourselves. Hence, we find no problems in exploiting another non Western country's labor and environment in ways we find totally unacceptable for ourselves.

Our culture will continue to be the world's scapegoat until we address this reality.

But I do believe in the concept of nationhood. And if a nation cannot control it's borders, is it really a nation?

And while I do sympathize with the average Mexican (like Lou Dobbs says, they are the only rational actors in this, all they want is a better life for themselves), should present day Americans have to pay for the sins of our ancestors? And the sins of the Spanish, Catholicism, or of the sins of the Mexican's native American ancestors, such as the Aztecs?

I say no. I say no to having our wages lowered. I say no to paying higher taxes for bilingual education. I say no to subsidizing their healthcare through their use of the emergency room as a doctors office. The list could go on.

Americans need to learn to cut their own damn lawns again and clean their own houses again. And they need to learn people deserve a living wage for what they do. We really cannot let go of exploiting people can we? Even if the people we are exploiting do not see it as such, we should know better.

If strawberries need to cost more, then so be it!

 

[wkmac]

I say no. I say no to having our wages lowered. I say no to paying higher taxes for bilingual education. I say no to subsidizing their healthcare through their use of the emergency room as a doctors office. The list could go on.

Americans need to learn to cut their own damn lawns again and clean their own houses again. And they need to learn people deserve a living wage for what they do. We really cannot let go of exploiting people can we? Even if the people we are exploiting do not see it as such, we should know better.

If strawberries need to cost more, then so be it!

I don't disagree with any of these things either and I also oppose(d) NAFTA, WTO and the like. I can agree with you about paying for the sins of the fathers but in IMO in order to understand the current dilema, understanding those sins are also important as current events are as much shaped by those sins as our current sins.

Consider this, if we are meddling as some allege in Middle Eastern economics and geopolitics that cause such serious blowback, what are we doing in our own backyard? It's not much of a secret the CIA involvement in the drug trade of the Afghans and the old Golden Triangle, so is it that far of a stretch to consider or question some of the roots of the drug violence South of our own borders? The border situation and surrounding events IMHO have been used by the gov't to achieve various political ends and I'm not convinced or trusting that they will do the right thing by all at the end of the day to solve it either.

We probably agree a lot more than either of us realize, it's just the approach to the solution may take a different course.

 

[wkmac]

We continue to evolve on different planets. I think you disagree with Jimmys points which I thought were valid you then gave us a multi-linked response of multiple quotes which was supposed to tell us why you disagreed with jimmys valid points. I think . Kind of like giving us the organic chemistry of lighter fluid when all I asked for was another can to get the barbecue going.

Química orgánica

Una Introducción

por Anthony Carpi, Ph.D.
Para entender la vida tal como la conocemos, primero debemos entender un poco de química orgánica. Las moléculas orgánicas contienen carbono e hidrógeno. Mientras que muchos químicos orgánicos también contienen otros elementos, es la unión del carbono - hidrógeno lo que los define como orgánicos. La química orgánica define la vida. Así como hay millones de diferentes tipos de organismos vivos en este planeta, hay millones de moléculas orgánicas diferentes, cada una con propiedades químicas y físicas diferentes. Hay químicos orgánicos que son parte del pelo, piel, uñas, etc. La diversidad de químicos orgánicos tiene su origen en la versatilidad del átomo de carbono. ¿Porqué el carbono es un elemento tan especial? Miremos su química más detalladamente.
El carbono (C) aparece en la segunda hilera de la tabla periódica y tiene cuatro electrones de enlace en su envoltura de valencia. Al igual que otros no metales, el carbono necesita ocho electrones para completar su envoltura de valencia. Por consiguiente, el carbono forma cuatro enlaces con otros átomos (cada enlace representa a uno de los electrones de carbono y uno de los electrones del átomo que se enlazan). Cada valencia de electrón participa en el enlace, por consiguiente el enlace del átomo de carbono se distribuirá parejamente sobre la superficie del átomo. Estos enlaces forman un tetradrón (una pirámide con una punta en la parte superior), como se ilustra en el siguiente dibujo:

El carbono forma 4 enlaces​

Los químicos orgánicos toman su diversidad de muchas diferentes maneras en las que el carbono puede enlazarse con otros átomos. Los químicos orgánicos más simples, llamados hidrocarbonos, contienen sólo carbono y átomos de hidrógeno; el hidrocarbóno más simple (llamado metano contiene un sólo átomo de carbono enlazado a cuatro átomos de hidrógeno:

Metano- un átomo de carbono enlazado a 4 átomos de hidrógenos​

Pero el carbono puede enlazarse con otros átomos de carbono adicionalmente al hidrógeno tal como se ilustra en el siguiente dibujo de la molécula etano:

Etano- un enlace carbono-carbono​

cadenas en rama:

Hexano- una cadena de 6 carbonos​

cadenas en rama:

Isohéxano- una cadena en ramas de carbono​

anillos:

Cycloéxano- un hidrocarbono en forma de anillo​

Parece ser que no hay límites al número de estructuras diferentes que el carbono puede formar. Para añadirle complejidad a la química orgánica, átomos de carbono vecinos pueden formar enlaces dobles o triples adicionalmente a los enlaces de carbono-carbono:

Enlace sencillo​

Enlace doble​

Enlace triple​

End part 1

 

[wkmac]

We continue to evolve on different planets. I think you disagree with Jimmys points which I thought were valid you then gave us a multi-linked response of multiple quotes which was supposed to tell us why you disagreed with jimmys valid points. I think . Kind of like giving us the organic chemistry of lighter fluid when all I asked for was another can to get the barbecue going.

Part 2

Recuerde que cada átomo de carbono forma cuatro enlaces. A medida que el número de enlaces entre cualquiera de dos átomos de carbono aumenta, el número de átomos de hidrógeno en la molécula disminuye (tal como puede verse en la tabla de arriba).
Hidrocarbonos simples
Los hidrocarbones simples son esos que sólo contienen carbono e hidrógeno. Estos hidrocarbonos simples vienen en tres variedades dependiendo del tipo de enlace carbono-carbono que ocurre en la molécula. Los alcanos son la primera clase de hidrocarbones simples y contienen sólo enlaces sencillos de carbono-carbono. Los alcanos son denominados al combinar un prefijo que describe el número de los átomos de carbono en la molécula con la raíz que termina en 'ano'. He aquí los nombres y los prefijos para los primeros 10 alcanos.

Átomos de​

carbono

Prefijo
Nombre de
alcanos
Fórmula
Química
Fórmula
estructural​

1MethMetanoCH 4CH42EthEtanoC2H6CH3CH33PropPropanoC3H8CH3CH2CH34ButButanoC4H10CH3CH2CH2CH35PentPentanoC5H12CH3CH2CH2CH2CH36HexHexanoC6H14...7HeptHeptanoC7H16 8OctOctanoC8H18 9NonNonanoC9H20 10DecDecanoC10H22​

La fórmula química para cualquier alcano se encuentra en la expresión CnH2n+2. La fórmula estructural, mostrada para los primeros 5 alcanos de la tabla, muestra cada átomo de carbono y los elementos al que están unidos. Esta fórmula estructural es importante cuando empezamos a discutir hidrocarbones más complejos. Los alcanos simples comparten muchas propiedades en común. Todos entran en reacciones de combustión con el oxígeno para producir dióxido de carbono y agua de vapor. En otras palabras, muchos alcanos son inflamables. Esto los convierte en buenos combustibles. Por ejemplo, el metano es el componente principal del gas natural y el butano es un fluido común más liviano.

CH4 + 2O2 CO2 + 2H2O​

La combustión del metano​

La segunda clase de hidrocarbones simples son los alquenos, formados por moléculas que contienen por lo menos un par de carbones de enlace doble. Los alquenos siguen la misma convención que la usada por los alcanos. Un prefijo (para describir el número de átomos de carbono) se combina con la terminación 'ene' para denominar un alqueno. El eteno, por ejemplo consiste de dos moléculas de carbono que contienen un enlace doble. La fórmula química para los alquenos simples sigue la expresión CnH2n. Debido a que uno de los pares de carbono está doblemente enlazado, los alquenos simples tienen dos átomos de hidrógeno menos que los alcanos.

Eteno​

Los alquinos son la tercera clase de hidrocarbonos simples y son moléculas que contienen por lo menos un par de enlaces de carbono. Como los alcanos y alquenos, a los alquinos se los denomina al combinar un prefijo con la terminación 'ino' para denotar un enlace triple. La fórmula química para los alquinos simples sigue la expresión CnH2n-2.

Etino​

Isómeros Ya que el carbono puede enlazarse de tantas diferentes maneras, una simple molécula puede tener diferentes configuraciones de enlace. Considere las dos moléculas siguientes:

C6H14 CH3CH2CH2CH2CH2CH3​

Ambas moléculas tienen formulas químicas idénticas (mostradas en la columna de la izquierda), sin embargo sus fórmulas estructurales (y, por consiguiente, algunas propiedades químicas) son diferentes. Estas dos moléculas son llamadas isómeros. Los isómeros son moléculas que tienen la misma fórmula química, pero diferentes fórmulas estructurales.
Grupos Funcionales
Adicionalmente al carbono y al hidrógeno, los hidrocarbonos también pueden contener otros elementos. En realidad, hay muchos grupos comunes de átomos que pueden producirse dentro de las moléculas orgánicas, estos grupos de átomos son llamados grupos funcionales. Un buen ejemplo es el grupo funcional oxhidrillo. El grupo oxhidrilo consiste en un átomo de oxígeno solo enlazado a un átomo de hidrógeno (-OH). El grupo de hidrocarbonos que contiene un grupo funcional oxhidrilo hace parte de lo llamados alcoholes. Los alcoholes son llamados de manera similar a los hidrocarbones simples, se pone un prefijo a la raíz (en este caso 'anol') que designa el alcohol. La existencia de un grupo funcional cambia completamente las propiedades químicas de la molécula. El etano, el alcano con 2 carbones, es un gas a temperatura ambiente; el etanol, el alcohol de 2 carbones, es un líquido.

Etanol​

El etanol, el alcohol que se bebe comúnmente, es el ingrediente activo en las bebidas "alcóholicas" como la cerveza y el vino.


Recursos Adicionales
• Del atomo al infinito/ From Atoms to Infinity: El universo a todas las escalas (La Aventura De La Ciencia)

• Molecular Visions Organic Modeling Kit

• Otros productos recomendados

as Jones would say, fixed it for ya!

 

[JimJimmyJames]

I agree we are part of the problem. I always thought it was ironic that we give aid and try to rebuild countries all over the world but we let the failed state of Mexico right on our border dangle in the wind. Why?

Because, IMHO, we don't want give up a ready supply of cheap labor.

 

[wkmac]

I agree we are part of the problem. I always thought it was ironic that we give aid and try to rebuild countries all over the world but we let the failed state of Mexico right on our border dangle in the wind. Why?

Because, IMHO, we don't want give up a ready supply of cheap labor.

ABSOLUTELY! Dead on the money!!!!!!!!

First there was the african, then the chinese and irish. Turn of the century and we had the eastern european, many trying to escape the horror of WW1 and politicial upheavels we help cause and after WW2 it was the the japanese to some minor degree along with the Korean and Vietnamese. Again in the wake of our war machine of empire.

We complain about the Middle Eastern living among us and fear he might be a secret terrorist and you know what, he might be! But whose mischief making forced him to depart his homeland and come here and in some possible cases harboring ill feelings towards us?

Now it's the "Mexican" and it's only a big deal with him because it's a walk across the river and easy fodder to scapegoat. Go back in the early days of the drug war, I'm talking Reefer Madness days, and it was the evil mexican and his weed that was used by border areas for witch hunt purposes to scare the masses.

And let's not forget the American Indian who were killed and forced relocated off their lands to fulfill our "Manifest Destiny!" Could we have some Aaron Copeland for background music! And I love Copeland too!

The good news is however, from looking across the globe I think we've about exhausted the human resources of cheap labor but the bad news is that Gov't protected monopoly corp. America is now going to move off shore for those resources and use our native off spring as pit bulls to enforce their mercantile will at the point of a gun!

I have to wonder sometimes if somewhere in the bowls of decision making that someone doesn't destroy the jobs market on purpose so as to force more young into the soldier ranks. I only think that because some of the decisions of economy are so stupid only an idiot central planner would make such a choice.

How could I dare say such things in public!

Did you also ever consider this. The birthrate of the American citizenry has dropped and remove immigration (legal and illegal) and our aging population is in total decline. Who will fill the jobs and more important, who will fill the jobs that pay for the social security debt obligations in the future? Did you ever think that the US gov't does nothing about immigration because if they did, social security would implode that much quicker? Many illegals using dead SS #'s pay tax contary to myth but never will collect. Perfect scenario for gov't officials facing a crisis but who want a short term fix to protect them in power. Push the problem down the road and let the next guy deal with it.


And I've made that point before but felt it needed to be raised again! And don't forget, a declining population means less seats in Congress and just how would that measure up to the power brokers? Another



BTW: You democrats might want to watch your party very closely. I agree with Ivan Eland that the NeoConservatives are planning a return trip home after they destroyed wherein they've been shacking up..uh I mean living for the last few years since McGovern, the death of Scoop Jackson and the Reagan era!

 

[tieguy]

Part 2



as Jones would say, fixed it for ya!

that is too funny.

 

[JimJimmyJames]

wkmac, sometimes I think there might be a conspiracy to destroy American labor. When American labor was at it's zenith, when the average worker had a job for life with benefits and a retirement package (like we have at UPS), the elite in this country, in their lust for ever more power and money, and probably born out of a kind of class warfare in that they just could not stand that the average guy would enjoy so much of the fruits of his own labor, decided to move jobs and factories out of the country. But what of the jobs that could not be moved? Well, we allow massive immigration to compete with the native born worker. I would believe this, if I was the conspiracy type .

And let me state this right now, this is in direct contrast to legitimate trade and legitimate immigration. What, pray tell, am I talking about?

Legitimate trade is when we trade with a nation that has something that we do not have. Or it is a foreign company that sells it's wares here and competes with domestic industry based on quality, not on an artificially lowered price. One thing for damn sure it is not is a domestic company closing it's domestic factories and exploiting a foreign population by setting up shop overseas and then selling those products back to it's domestic customers.

Legitimate immigration is where we seek the best and brightest from around the world who sincerely desire to join us in our grand experiment in creating the greatest country on earth. It is not allowing mass illegal immigration in order to unfairly lower wages for increased profits. And remember, though that first generation of immigrant comes here and works their asses off to create a better life, do we really believe that the second generation, Americanized, will work as hard as the first? Or will they see the work their parents did as beneath them, but lacking the skills and education that many in the lower rungs of society have, rely then on the government for support? And that brings me to what immigration also is not, a government program to expand the voter rolls of people who will look to the government for their needs, thus perpetuating ever more government paternalism. And thus, ever more government.

Thats all I have the wind to write tonight. It all boils down to this: can the US find a way to survive and prosper without being exploitative (I know that is a word liberals throw around but it is the most appropriate). Also, will we ever learn to create sustainability?

P.S. I think all of us who have participated in this thread would agree, on some level, that we do have an immigration problem. We just might disagree as to the root causes or what the solution should be.

I think we should prosecute the employers. As Sober suggested, they are the Americans who are breaking the law by hiring those they know they should not. Fine them $10,000 per infraction.

Like we would ever see that happen .

 

[wkmac]

Good points Jim and although I don't subscribe to conspiracies either, it does make one wonder sometime. Gov't to me is like a pool of water and dropping a single pebble into the pool generates a ripple effect that is for the most part predictable and it's process (outcome) has a soothing, pleasing effect to those who observe it's actions. However, when the pool is forced to deal with numerous pebbles at the same time, the effects are unpredictable and chaotic. Ripples going everywhere, some canceling out others or each other. Frustration sets in to the peddle throwers so they obtain larger rocks in order to create wakes that overpower all the other ripples in the pool. And thus the others also obtain ever large rocks and then boulders to make their wakes ever bigger. The chaos of the pool begins to effect the amount of water contained and if the destructive nature of competing interests are allowed, ultimately all the water is splashed from the pool and you are left with a mudhole with little sustainable waters that the competing forces fight over. In time, nature takes it's course and the once life giving pool becomes a dry, dead lake bed incapable of sustaining any life at all.

Our pool was once a calm, pleasant place to reside and very capable of sustaining a good life for all but it's ability to do was the fact that by compact we all agreed to limit when, what and how pebbles would be dropped into our pool. Once we ventured from that limiting compact, we began to consume the pool like desperate animals and are well on our way to a dead, dry lake bed.

Our legacy to our posterity!

And we wonder why peoples around the globe fight our system when we try to force it on them. A good system is proven by it's fruits (ye shall know them by their fruits) and never requires force but is welcomed into the home like a dear friend!

 

[chev]

Absolutely insane that this man should loose his job over such a silly remark. What a bunch of panty waste whiners.
Whether you like what he said or not, he still has the right to say it. It's called FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

 

[Catatonic]

Absolutely insane that this man should loose his job over such a silly remark. What a bunch of panty waste whiners.
Whether you like what he said or not, he still has the right to say it. It's called FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

OK ... that topic again - FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

This right is only for individuals who speak out against the government.
The government can not prosecute you generally for what you say but specifically if you are speaking oout against the government.

Companies, churches, individuals can prosecute you and take lawful actions against any individual for what they say.

 

[chev]

OK ... that topic again - FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

This right is only for individuals who speak out against the government.
The government can not prosecute you generally for what you say but specifically if you are speaking out against the government.

Companies, churches, individuals can prosecute you and take lawful actions against any individual for what they say.

I understand that but I'm just sick of corporations folding every time someone complains about an off colored comment an on air personality makes. It is pitiful what can't be said anymore. Stations should simply place a disclaimer before their shows that the opinions of their jocks/entertainers are not necessarily those of the station and just leave it at that. I love what the NewYorker magazine did when they caught a bunch of crap over that Obama cartoon. Basically told Rev Al to go suck an egg.
I'm not a big fan of censorship. If the program is not for you, turn it off.