re: driving unsafe equipment
- Thread starter hypocrisy
- Start date
RoyalFlush
One of Them
Please show me where CFR 393 says a vehicle can not be operated if there is one item that does not meet the criteria listed in CFR 393. 393.1 states that it establishes the minimum requirements that a vehicle must be equipped with. A vehicle must be equipped is different than it can not be operated. Our vehicles go through DOT inspections everyday with items listed in 393 that don't work 100%. The DOT issues a repair order and then allows the vehicle to continue if defect does not exceed the out of service criteria. According to you the police are breaking the law??? You are giving you partners bad advice. There are many items that can be inoperative and the vehicle can still be legally operated.
20% of the brakes can be inoperative
Headlights - not out of service criteria in day light
wipers - not out of service criteria in dry weather
marker light- not out of service criteria
one tail light - not out of service criteria
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regu.../fmcsrruletext.aspx?chunkKey=090163348008f27d
Differences Between the Out-Of-Service Criteria & FMCSA’s Annual Inspection
1. Brake System.
The Appendix G criteria rejects vehicles with any defective brakes, any air leaks, etc. The out-of-service criteria allows 20% defective brakes on non-steering axles and a certain latitude on air leaks before placing a vehicle out-of-service.
2. Coupling Devices.
Appendix G rejects vehicles with any fifth wheel mounting fastener missing or ineffective. The out-of-service criteria allows up to 20% missing or ineffective fasteners on frame mountings and pivot bracket mountings and 25% on sliderlatching fasteners. The out-of-service criteria also allows some latitude on cracked welds.
3. Exhaust System.
Appendix G follows Section 393.83 verbatim. The CVSA out-of-service criteria allows vehicles to exhaust forward of the dimensions given in Section 393.83 as long as the exhaust does not leak or exhaust under the chassis.
4. Fuel System.
Same for Appendix G and the out-of-service criteria.
5. Lighting Devices.
Appendix G requires all lighting devices required by section 393 to be operative at all times. The out-of-service criteria only requires one stop light and functioning turn signals on the rear most vehicle of a combination vehicle to be operative at all times. In addtion one operative head lamp and tail lamp are required during the hours of darkness.
6. Safe Loading.
Same for both Appendix G and the out-of-service criteria.
7. Steering Mechanism.
Steering lash requirements of Appendix G follows the new requirements of §393.209.
8. Suspension.
Appendix G follows the new requirements of §393.207 which does not allow any broken leaves in a leaf spring assembly. The out-of-service criteria allows up to 25% broken or missing leaves before being placed out-of-service.
9. Frame.
The out-of-service criteria allows a certain latitude in frame cracks before placing a vehicle out-of-service. Appendix G follows the new requirements of 393.201 which does not allow any frame cracks.
10. Tires.
Appendix G follows the requirements of 393.75 which requires a tire tread depth of 4/32 inch on power unit steering axles and 2/32 inch on all other axles. The out-of-service criteria only requires 2/32 inch tire tread depth on power unit steering axles and 1/32 inch on all other axles.
11. Wheel and Rims.
The out-of-service criteria allows a certain amount latitude for wheel and rim cracks and missing or defective fasteners. Appendix G meets the requirements of the new 393.205 which does not allow defective wheels and rims non-effective nuts and bolts.
12. Windshield Glazing.
The out-of-service criteria places in a restricted service condition any vehicle that has a crack or discoloration in the windshield area lying within the sweep of the wiper on the drivers side and does not address the remaining area of the wind shield. Appendix G addresses requirements for the whole windshield as specified in 393.60.
13. Windshield Wipers.
Appendix G requires windshield wipers to be operative at all times. The out-of-service criteria only requires that the windshield wiper on the driver’s side to be inspected during inclement weather.
RoyalFlush
One of Them
§396.7 Unsafe operations forbidden.
(a) General—A motor vehicle shall not be operated in such a condition as to likely cause an accident or a breakdown of the vehicle.
(b) Exemption—Any motor vehicle discovered to be in an unsafe condition while being operated on the highway may be continued in operation only to the nearest place where repairs can safely be effected. Such operation shall be conducted only if it is less hazardous to the public than to permit the vehicle to remain on the highway.
(a) General—A motor vehicle shall not be operated in such a condition as to likely cause an accident or a breakdown of the vehicle.
(b) Exemption—Any motor vehicle discovered to be in an unsafe condition while being operated on the highway may be continued in operation only to the nearest place where repairs can safely be effected. Such operation shall be conducted only if it is less hazardous to the public than to permit the vehicle to remain on the highway.
BigBrown, I think you are splitting hairs. Allowing a vehicle to be driven up to 25 miles to a repair facility is only a concession by DOT in lieu of an expensive tow, not a free pass on operating unsafe equipment.
The 20% brake rule only comes into play in a combination vehicle with mulitple axles i.e. a set of doubles with dolly brakes inop would be written up.
But what you are missing is that CSA2010 will put every inspection into a database tied to your drivers license showing what deficiencies were noted in the inspection. This score will stay with you for 3 years and be available for your current and any future employers. If your 'score' gets too high, you could find yourself unemployable by any carrier.
I don't know why anyone would gamble with the public's safety by letting things slip by, much less your career.
I would re-read this paragraph again too:
Comparison of Appendix G, and the new North American Uniform Driver-Vehicle Inspection Procedure (North American Commercial Vehicle Critical Safety Inspection Items and Out-Of-Service Criteria)
The vehicle portion of the FMCSA’s North American Uniform Driver-Vehicle Inspection Procedure (NAUD-VIP) requirements, CVSA’s North American Commercial Vehicle Critical Safety Inspection Items and Out-Of-Service Criteria and Appendix G of subchapter B are similar documents and follow the same inspection procedures. The same items are required to be inspected by each document. FMCSA’s and CVSA’s out-of-service criteria are intended to be used in random roadside inspections to identify critical vehicle inspection items and provide criteria for placing a vehicle(s) out-of-service. A vehicle(s) is placed out-of-service only when by reason of its mechanical condition or loading it is determined to be so imminently hazardous as to likely cause an accident or breakdown, or when such condition(s) would likely contribute to loss of control of the vehicle(s) by the driver. A certain amount of flexibility is given to the inspecting official whether to place the vehicle out-of-service at the inspection site or if it would be less hazardous to allow the vehicle to proceed to a repair facility for repair. The distance to the repair facility must not exceed 25 miles. The roadside type of inspection, however, does not necessarily mean that a vehicle has to be defect-free in order to continue in service.
In contrast, the Appendix G inspection procedure requires that all items required to be inspected are in proper adjustment, are not defective and function properly prior to the vehicle being placed in service.
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I think you can expect roadside inspections to become quite uniform across the country with the full implementation of CSA2010.
I stand by my original post.
The 20% brake rule only comes into play in a combination vehicle with mulitple axles i.e. a set of doubles with dolly brakes inop would be written up.
But what you are missing is that CSA2010 will put every inspection into a database tied to your drivers license showing what deficiencies were noted in the inspection. This score will stay with you for 3 years and be available for your current and any future employers. If your 'score' gets too high, you could find yourself unemployable by any carrier.
I don't know why anyone would gamble with the public's safety by letting things slip by, much less your career.
I would re-read this paragraph again too:
Comparison of Appendix G, and the new North American Uniform Driver-Vehicle Inspection Procedure (North American Commercial Vehicle Critical Safety Inspection Items and Out-Of-Service Criteria)
The vehicle portion of the FMCSA’s North American Uniform Driver-Vehicle Inspection Procedure (NAUD-VIP) requirements, CVSA’s North American Commercial Vehicle Critical Safety Inspection Items and Out-Of-Service Criteria and Appendix G of subchapter B are similar documents and follow the same inspection procedures. The same items are required to be inspected by each document. FMCSA’s and CVSA’s out-of-service criteria are intended to be used in random roadside inspections to identify critical vehicle inspection items and provide criteria for placing a vehicle(s) out-of-service. A vehicle(s) is placed out-of-service only when by reason of its mechanical condition or loading it is determined to be so imminently hazardous as to likely cause an accident or breakdown, or when such condition(s) would likely contribute to loss of control of the vehicle(s) by the driver. A certain amount of flexibility is given to the inspecting official whether to place the vehicle out-of-service at the inspection site or if it would be less hazardous to allow the vehicle to proceed to a repair facility for repair. The distance to the repair facility must not exceed 25 miles. The roadside type of inspection, however, does not necessarily mean that a vehicle has to be defect-free in order to continue in service.
In contrast, the Appendix G inspection procedure requires that all items required to be inspected are in proper adjustment, are not defective and function properly prior to the vehicle being placed in service.
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I think you can expect roadside inspections to become quite uniform across the country with the full implementation of CSA2010.
Going out on road with any of these deficiencies will net you a write up upon inspection and be entered in the database. You were trained to inspect for deficiencies in these items and have them repaired prior to going on road. I think if Appendix G absolved you of any liablity in operating a UPS vehicle without operating brakes, lights, wipers etc as you suggest, UPS would not have had to pay such huge settlements in these recent OSHA cases. Or are we smarter than lawyers?
I stand by my original post.
Except that when you are operating a UPS vehicle you are a Professional Driver with the safety of the Public and yourself always in the front of your mind, and the best interests of the Company just behind that. Breakdowns, road calls, inspection/citations, tows, and expecially accidents cost a lot more than you performing your job properly by doing a complete pre-trip and having any issues addressed by the shop. Continuing to operate a UPS vehicle as you would your personal vehicle might just guarantee you that the personal vehicle is the only one you get to drive.
RoyalFlush
One of Them
CVSA's out of service criteria used by law enforcement. You're arguing your opinion against the facts. Anyone that's ever been issued a repair order at a DOT inspection can attest to the fact that not even law enforcement themselves follow the criteria you have misinterpreted. Do as you please. Most people are capable of using reasonable judgment. If it's truly unsafe don't drive it.
Wow, even a package car mechanic is saying UPS doesn't care? As an Automotive Supervisor I take offence to this. I look at my fleet as, would I want to have my wife and kids following this car on the road? If I cannot truthfully answer yes, then the car does not run. Mechanics do not take heat for roadcalls, as long as there is not a trend or pattern that develops. As far as a driver is concerned, If you do not feel safe driving the vehicle, do not drive it, but at the very least know what the Out of service Requirements are. I have never heard of a driver getting in trouble for refusing to drive a car for legitimate concerns. If my mechanics are not performing and keeping the cars running in a safe fashion, They will either correct the trend or they will not be working on the cars. Ultimately I have the responsibility for the safe operation of 300 cars, and I have a crew of fantastic mechanics that do not take short cuts.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
crowbar, would you consider an ABS light on to be unsafe equipment? If so, I plead guilty to operating unsafe equipment yesterday. I guess I was wrong in completing my day and writing the light up in my DVIR.
UPSF Peeon
Well-Known Member
DECR= Dont Even Count on Repairs
it took 3 months to get the bulbs changed in my forklifts headlights when i was on the dock alot
i tried countless tiems to go back to the shop and do it myself but couldnt get permission
after the other bulb burnt out the forklift was unusable BECAUSE OF A LIGHTBULB, we dont have extra equipment to be putting things out of service for something like a lightbulb
so it sat for about another month, unusable because of a 2 minute fix
it took 3 months to get the bulbs changed in my forklifts headlights when i was on the dock alot
i tried countless tiems to go back to the shop and do it myself but couldnt get permission
after the other bulb burnt out the forklift was unusable BECAUSE OF A LIGHTBULB, we dont have extra equipment to be putting things out of service for something like a lightbulb
so it sat for about another month, unusable because of a 2 minute fix
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
For something that basic I would have purchased the bulb and installed it myself. I know we shouldn't have to do that but if it makes our job easier and safer...
705red
Browncafe Steward
For everyone that thinks this is a joke, keep laughing. I have been reading up on this and it is mind blowing to say the least. As you all know I am off on a work related injury so I am out of the loop on a lot right now. I sent a text to one of the agents yesterday asking him if he heard of this. Its serious enough that there will be a meeting for all of the 705 members on the 16th at the union hall to discuss this and have it explained.
Contact your locals and see if the same is happeneing. Instead of rading every thread for a while, I suggest that everyone reads the links provided by Crowbar. Knowledge is power!
Contact your locals and see if the same is happeneing. Instead of rading every thread for a while, I suggest that everyone reads the links provided by Crowbar. Knowledge is power!
Coldworld
Well-Known Member
if you would have grabbed the pull cord and the bottom pop up and hit you in the eye and you couldnt drive i can guarantee your boss's first question would of been...why didnt you call us???
Coldworld
Well-Known Member
If its like 90 percent of the old overnite/motor cargo equipment it was probably headed to the scrap yard anyway. In my experience, even the smallest trucking companies have much newer tractors than old upsf crap...and lets not even talk about the motor cargo trailers that look like death on wheels. I know ups is buying new equipment but most of that old school crap should be scrapped...bad image..especially when you see a upsf driver with the zz top beard and a cig hanging out of his mouth behind the wheel!!
Actually, DOT requires that your trailers and tractors be OEM equipped with ABS and an ABS warning system. It is not required to actually be operational. That was a specific question answered on one of the "Ask The Law" broadcasts. However, the person asking the question was actually cited for the ABS warning light being activated, apparently in error. Hopefully his question was answered in time to take that information to court and contest the citation.
It's probably because the unavoidable road grime clogs up the sensors that the ABS warning lights come on, or so our mechanics think. I would write it up anyway.
I tell my drivers to pull over and get the shop on the phone and I'll walk over to the shop and make damned sure they go out right that minute. Seatbelts are not something that needs to go ignored. Ever. Your center manager is an idiot for even considering letting him continue.
We had the exact opposite happen here. Drivers seatbelt malfunctioned, he called in, and the management team told him to stop immediately and wait for the mechanic.
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