Ron Carey Speech

[tieguy]

Boy Tie, this thread has really hit a nerve with you. It`s obvious you are still very bitter about the 97 strike. Just let go of it man.

Dork I'm afraid its reality time. You folks waked out in 97 to fight to hold on to your pensions. Fought for what? So the CS guys can work until their 62 and take less then what was paid for? Walked for what? So my company can throw more good money after bad with the next contract?

Dorkhead did you want me to put on blinders and pretend I don't see any of this crap?

 

[Cole]

So when the company skimps with large accounts, and makes us look like a generic company, that is because of 97?

Get real! There's problems on all sides of this, from management and sometimes us, but from my experience I have seen us go the extra mile for the customers, and management did not. If we sit and keep pointing fingers constantly, then our competitors will take advantage of that.

We know it's our jobs to further the interests of UPS, but management needs to learn customers don't like to be treated as numbers, and they know when that is the case.

 

[DorkHead]

No Tie, I don`t want you to put on blinders. But I also don`t think UPS is "throwing good money after bad" OUR company is posting record profits quarter after quarter since the 97 strike. We both know that this companys strongest asset is its people. We have the most productive workforce in the transportation of freight industry. Being compensated fairly is not to much to ask for. Don`t you agree?

 

[tieguy]

No Tie, I don`t want you to put on blinders. But I also don`t think UPS is "throwing good money after bad" OUR company is posting record profits quarter after quarter since the 97 strike. We both know that this companys strongest asset is its people. We have the most productive workforce in the transportation of freight industry. Being compensated fairly is not to much to ask for. Don`t you agree?

Dorkhead ( could you come up with a less derogatory name, I feel like I'm calling you names by using your name )

You could easily take the mechanics pension and others around the country where the money was invested wisely and where upsers collect some very healthy retirements and make the argument that UPS has compensated its people very generously. The multi employer concept in general is not performing very well for our people. Many like CS are leaking buckets. Therefore I don't think the argument should be that UPS can afford it but the argument should be what will the teamsters leadership do to ensure that our people collect the money we are actually putting into these pensions.

The CS pension itself is proof that Carey fought to hold onto the pension with no long term plan to ensure the plans paid out. So Good old ronnie used the preverbial "the boogie man ups is coming" line to scare you folks into thinking the pension would be stolen from you. While you were looking out into the shadows for this mysterious boogie man your pension got flushed down the toilet.

In reality 10 years later the boogie man turned out to be Ron Carey.

 

[tieguy]

So when the company skimps with large accounts, and makes us look like a generic company, that is because of 97?

Get real! There's problems on all sides of this, from management and sometimes us, but from my experience I have seen us go the extra mile for the customers, and management did not. If we sit and keep pointing fingers constantly, then our competitors will take advantage of that.

We know it's our jobs to further the interests of UPS, but management needs to learn customers don't like to be treated as numbers, and they know when that is the case.

Cole,
Looks like we agree. Dave kept using the fat cat worthless management lines as an excuse to not try to generate leads and volume. My point presented with a touch of sarcasm was the blame game will only hurt us.

 

[DorkHead]

Tie, like you said, if "invested wisely" which it wasn`t in the CS fund. Blame the union locals and our government when they were in control. I am not saying that in the next contract UPS should contribute enough to fix the CS fund. What I am saying is that it`s not UPS`s place to decide how the "negotiated" monies are distributed. A fair contract where ALL employees(which is the company`s most valuable asset) profit.

 

[705red]

Dork I'm afraid its reality time. You folks waked out in 97 to fight to hold on to your pensions. Fought for what? So the CS guys can work until their 62 and take less then what was paid for? Walked for what? So my company can throw more good money after bad with the next contract?

Dorkhead did you want me to put on blinders and pretend I don't see any of this crap?

Tie we did strike in 97 to save the pension and several other reasons. The teamsters deserve some blame for the cs pension but the government has been monitoring that plan since 1989 right? How much control do the teamsters have in the investments that the government controls?

Back to the lost business portion of this post, our bd department is out pushing freight and logistics and have given up on small package, why? Our bd reps dont return customer calls, cant explain to them why their pick up times change on a day to day basis, and in some cases dont give the customers their discounts. Why cant we walk into a 5 story office building and give every company a discounted rate for shipping seeing the driver will be in that building? Fedex does it and their stock is worth more than $70 a share.

As you know we just lost a HUGE account in chicago Pampered chef why? Fed ex will under cut us and take care of the cutomers.

In the end of careys legacy you can say what you want about the man, he didnt give in to ups and kept our pensions a multi-employer fund, which is in the long run a better long term choice than a single-employer fund in my opinion! Some might not agree due to the cs fund but you cant hang that all on carey!

 

[tieguy]

Tie we did strike in 97 to save the pension and several other reasons. The teamsters deserve some blame for the cs pension but the government has been monitoring that plan since 1989 right? How much control do the teamsters have in the investments that the government controls?

Fedex does it and their stock is worth more than $70 a share.

Last thing we want to do is get into a price war with fdx and their non-union labor force.

As you know we just lost a HUGE account in chicago Pampered chef why? Fed ex will under cut us and take care of the cutomers.

In the end of careys legacy you can say what you want about the man, he didnt give in to ups and kept our pensions a multi-employer fund, which is in the long run a better long term choice than a single-employer fund in my opinion! Some might not agree due to the cs fund but you cant hang that all on carey!

In 2003 11 of 21 teamster multi-employer plans were less then 70 percent funded. I have not seen the updated numbers to see if any are doing any better now.

All of that is irrelevant. Carey walked to save control of the teamster pension plans. The Onus therefore was and is on him to deliver a good pension for the working man as he used to say often. He failed and the members are paying the price for it. He violated their trust . They gave him carte blance to play tough with UPS over the pension. Its clear 10 years later that he did not deliver the goods.

 

[Cole]

It's really not fair to blame our pension woes on Ron Carey. He wasn't in office long enough to have fixed it, it he could have. There were so many itmes he had to deal with, such as the massive corruption, the Gov, and normal politics with a union etc...If he had more time who knows, but he got a good bit in a short amount of time.

 

[705red]

In 2003 11 of 21 teamster multi-employer plans were less then 70 percent funded. I have not seen the updated numbers to see if any are doing any better now.

All of that is irrelevant. Carey walked to save control of the teamster pension plans. The Onus therefore was and is on him to deliver a good pension for the working man as he used to say often. He failed and the members are paying the price for it. He violated their trust . They gave him carte blance to play tough with UPS over the pension. Its clear 10 years later that he did not deliver the goods.

Tie as a union member you never want to see a plan fully funded, Why? Because if the plan was fully funded the company wouldnt have to contribute to it on a monthly basis. Now i would love to see those plans doing a little better, but anyone that invests knows sometimes you make money and sometimes you lose a little.

He did save who controls the pensions, ups does not control our pensions and god help us if that day ever comes.

 

[westsideworma]

We have a contingency this time - PAS/EDD. If there's ever another strike we'll be able to be at full strength again in no time. For those that worked through the last strike - imagine how much we could have gotten done with PAS and a few temporary workers. I'm definitely not saying that I want to see that happen but it's definitely a contingency plan.

don't think we didn't think of that when it (PAS) was being implemented. Or as a way to take more money from the pitiful part time wages they pay now on the next contract.

I believe some areas may be able to run on PAS without experienced drivers, but nowhere near as efficient than if they had the actual drivers...so it would still suffer. You really think a newbie could handle an over dispatched PAS/EDD truck right away? Not to mention many places wouldn't accept packages from scabs (management running routes) during the last strike I don't think it'd be any different this time around if there were to be another. That last statement came from management so don't tell me my teamster brothers made it up.

 

[tieguy]

Tie as a union member you never want to see a plan fully funded, Why? Because if the plan was fully funded the company wouldnt have to contribute to it on a monthly basis. Now i would love to see those plans doing a little better, but anyone that invests knows sometimes you make money and sometimes you lose a little.

He did save who controls the pensions, ups does not control our pensions and god help us if that day ever comes.

I don't share the same paranoia. UPS controls my pension right now. I'm hoping the rumors about a lump sum buyout are true. If not I will retire with somewhere around 4200 to 4500 a month. There have never been any funding issues with the UPS plan. Never ever. The teamster multi-employer plans on the other hand have had nothing but problems overall.

Look at the worst case scenario.

Multiemployer plan fails - insurance pay about 10,000 a year to the beneficiaries of the plan.

Private single employer plan fails - whats the insurance pay? about 3 to 4 times what the multi-employer plan pays.

See thats the problem with these type of discussions. Your union keeps trying to sell you the evil employer coming to steal your retirement fairy tale. Meanwhile the evil employers plan is solid while the plans Carey had you fight for are leaking buckets.

 

[705red]

Right now your pension is good, tie what happens when ups downsizes or loses customers and no longer is the empire it is today? For us(teamsters) over the long haul a multi-employer is a safer choice, if we dont have enough members(ups) paying into the single employer, what happens to the retirees then? In a multi-employer fund someone will float the pension in our behalf. Now i know ups has been around a 100 years and growing every year, but if you know history no one person, company or country stays as the top dog forever!

 

[tieguy]

Red ,

In either case there are no issues with the private plan where many of the multi employer plans have had nothing but problems.

If UPS struggles then most of the multi-employer plans would also struggle since UPS tends to be the biggest player in many plans.

The insurance is better with a private plan and its funding requirements much more stringent.
When you look at the worst case scenario the private plan does much much better then the multi-employer plan.

 

[705red]

Red ,

In either case there are no issues with the private plan where many of the multi employer plans have had nothing but problems.

If UPS struggles then most of the multi-employer plans would also struggle since UPS tends to be the biggest player in many plans.

The insurance is better with a private plan and its funding requirements much more stringent.
When you look at the worst case scenario the private plan does much much better then the multi-employer plan.

Tie can you tell me how much is in the p-timer and management pension fund?

 

[local804]

I don't share the same paranoia. UPS controls my pension right now. I'm hoping the rumors about a lump sum buyout are true. If not I will retire with somewhere around 4200 to 4500 a month. There have never been any funding issues with the UPS plan. Never ever. The teamster multi-employer plans on the other hand have had nothing but problems overall.

Look at the worst case scenario.

Multiemployer plan fails - insurance pay about 10,000 a year to the beneficiaries of the plan.

Private single employer plan fails - whats the insurance pay? about 3 to 4 times what the multi-employer plan pays.

See thats the problem with these type of discussions. Your union keeps trying to sell you the evil employer coming to steal your retirement fairy tale. Meanwhile the evil employers plan is solid while the plans Carey had you fight for are leaking buckets.

You could say your pension is intact but can you say the same for the FT suit that has 5-10 years? I think he is worried, dont you?

 

[mis_load]

For everyone reading this thread. Forget the strike of 97, we all know we are not stupid. Central States pension is the biggest joke of the union. Everyone should be doing your own investment for retirement. In my center I have seen in the past 5 years retire with 30 or more years. What they get $3,000 a month is not much for 30 years, this just breaks my heart. And insurance, well that's another story in its own. Folks, wake up and realize that the union will tell you one thing and UPS will tell you another. If you want to retire one day from UPS, remember you have a brain, use it. Don't let the union talk you into striking in 08, or you will never retire. I would rather see UPS take the pension over, than keeping it with the union. In all my years I have never seen UPS invest and not make money. Now times have change and its time that we all use our heads and brains. If we strike in 08 that just might be the last of what we know as UPS. Our Customers deserve better. We just rave about how well they treat us, lets remember them.

 

[705red]

For everyone reading this thread. Forget the strike of 97, we all know we are not stupid. Central States pension is the biggest joke of the union. Everyone should be doing your own investment for retirement. In my center I have seen in the past 5 years retire with 30 or more years. What they get $3,000 a month is not much for 30 years, this just breaks my heart. And insurance, well that's another story in its own. Folks, wake up and realize that the union will tell you one thing and UPS will tell you another. If you want to retire one day from UPS, remember you have a brain, use it. Don't let the union talk you into striking in 08, or you will never retire. I would rather see UPS take the pension over, than keeping it with the union. In all my years I have never seen UPS invest and not make money. Now times have change and its time that we all use our heads and brains. If we strike in 08 that just might be the last of what we know as UPS. Our Customers deserve better. We just rave about how well they treat us, lets remember them.

Misload no one here wants a strike and this contract will be done well before aug1,08. With that being said the cs plan is a horrible nightmare but dont put all the blame on the teamsters. Ups wouldnt be able to control that pension the way they want with the government controlling it the way they have since 1989. Im not saying that the last several leaders of the ibt could have fixed it, but who knows were it would be at with the government not being involved, but thats a whole nother argument. Theres no way i trust ups to hold my pension as a single-employer fund! The teamsters arent perfect but ups had the opportunities to sit on alot of these funds and have declined in the past. Perfect example is my local 705 now that the funds are doing great the company wants to hop on board and reep the benefits.

 

[local804]

Missload,
UPS offered a real lot of money if they got control of the pension in 97. The thrift plan was another money maker for us. I really dont want to see the pension we all work hard for to all of a sudden "vanish"
Who from the union is telling you to strike? You said it in the post 2 above and I think you may have your story a little out of wack. Everyone I talk to or anything I read NOTHING ever says anything about the union telling you to strike.

 

[tieguy]

You could say your pension is intact but can you say the same for the FT suit that has 5-10 years? I think he is worried, dont you?

No I believe our pension plan will eventually be replaced by a 401K match. Now that I have had the chance to see the power of the 401K plan I think I would be all for the switch.

To be honest I'm surprised your union leadership has not pushed for a 401K match for its members. Seems like it would fix a lot of problems.