Separate Full-Time & Part-Time Contracts - Pros / Cons

[cachsux]

part timers in my building don't like the union, go figure They feel like union never there for them, just saying

And they have interacted with it, how?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

That's all we need to know!!

Who cares what you think beyond that statement!!

You do realize there are people with 14+ years of service as PT that want to work full time, don't you?

Not shocked at all you would scab, either. You've already been on your knees begging for a two-tier contract as it is.

This is my career, not a PT job.

 

[cachsux]

This is my career, not a PT job.

So.......when there's a driver based strike and that Ptimer says "friend that guy. I'll take his route out" as you're on the picket line you'll be ok with that?

 

[PT Stewie]

part timers in my building don't like the union, go figure They feel like union never there for them, just saying

There is 200 + part timers on my shift alone most of which do not care about the union until some get into trouble and need representation or need their job reinstated or they get the contract raise and want to bitch about their union dues going up never mind the .475 per hour increase,and God forbid they ask for their 3 1/2 while the sups finish the work as they head for the gate .Am I complaining here ?????????

 

[PiedmontSteward]

This is my career, not a PT job.

When do I get to start my career? I'm asking because you seem awful hell bent on selling me and my kind out before I can.

 

[InsideUPS]

Part timers need some attention by the company....but they, nor anyone, should expect a complete overhaul until they are better represented. It's hard to say what separate contracts would do, whether it be good or bad.

The company says that turnover is bad because of the cost. But I would dare say that the cost to hire someone is much less than the cost they would be if they stay around for a while and begin to get their benefits. This is why I think UPS will try to ignore the PT'ers as much as possible, and the Union will follow suit due to the lack of PT participation.

I'm afraid that PTers can only hope for baby steps each contract, at best.

Nice summary LongTimeComing. You are absolutely correct in stating "This is why I think UPS will try to ignore the PT'ers as much as possible, and the Union will follow suit due to the lack of PT participation". History will repeat itself in that both the Company and our Union will treat UPS part-timers as second class citizens. This is a trend that started over 35 years ago and will continue through this current contract.

 

[PT Car Washer]

There is 200 + part timers on my shift alone most of which do not care about the union until some get into trouble and need representation or need their job reinstated or they get the contract raise and want to bitch about their union dues going up never mind the .475 per hour increase,and God forbid they ask for their 3 1/2 while the sups finish the work as they head for the gate .Am I complaining here ?????????

I hear the same thing. When you ask them to stand up for their rights they are afraid of being harassed.

 

[InsideUPS]

The simplification/automation of our jobs (PAS/NextGen Small Sort/etc.) isn't simply about efficiency; that's a big part of it. It's also designed to be able to break a strike. ............. But an off-the-street scab during a strike won't know his elbow from his ******* when loading that package car. The same applies to a sorter/pick-off/etc. .........If it makes it easier for us to stomach pay cuts or other concessions because our jobs are now "simpler", then that's just icing on the cake.

PiedmontSteward.... you are absolutely correct when you state that technology is a significant advantage for UPS during this round of contract negotiations. With current technology and a variety of alternative logistics, UPS could easily process and deliver packages without it's current experienced workforce (Teamsters) like never before.....

I sometimes joke with my coworkers how easy it would be to change the PAL labels from Red to Rojo or from Blue to Azul....etc......if you know what I mean......Sénior..........

 

[InsideUPS]

I hear the same thing. When you ask them to stand up for their rights they are afraid of being harassed.

PT Car Washer...... You are correct......however, please know that not only are part-timers afraid to stand up for their rights.....the majority of full-time employees are also intimidated....... and for good reason. UPS has telematics, deep pockets, and has plenty of time to take issues through a potentially very long and uncertain grievance process.

The key to working at UPS is to follow the methods, keep excellent records, know the contract, and earn respect from your supervisor or management team. By "earning respect"....I don't mean that they necessarily have to like you....

 

[InsideUPS]

There is 200 + part timers on my shift alone most of which do not care about the union until some get into trouble and need representation or need their job reinstated or they get the contract raise and want to bitch about their union dues going up never mind the .475 per hour increase,and God forbid they ask for their 3 1/2 while the sups finish the work as they head for the gate .Am I complaining here ?????????

No PT Stewie, you are not complaining.......just telling it how it is. So.......why do people like you and I try to fight for better PT wages and benefits? I'll bet it's because you don't have to pay Union dues for being a steward...LOL...

 

[InsideUPS]

Pied' ,

With all due respect, I've been here since 1977. I've walked in your shoes. I do understand where you are coming from. But lets go back a few years before you even thought about going to work for UPS. When the DIAD 1 came out, the Company started the push for cheaper wages because the new technology was going to make our jobs so much easier. (HA-HA-HA!!!) UPS didn't feel like they needed to pay so much when our jobs were going to be so advanced that even a elementary school child could do it. (Not trying to be a smart a**, I actually had a Supervisor try to sell me on that idea) Hence the two tier wage was created. The true head knowledge is not needed now due to computers. Yes, we have to fix the screw-ups they cause, but they do simply a lot of our jobs.

Reydluap....I'm from a time when we only sheeted packages on paper....the maximum weight limit was 50 lbs... and the average package car did not look like a dance hall.......... not to mention that every package car was completely washed every day...

The two-tier PT wage was primarily the result of $500 and $1000 bonuses for PT and FT respectively starting in 1982. It wasn't until the strike of 1997 that part-time wages would again increase.

"Ron Carey, president of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, said the agreement called for the first increase in the starting pay of part-time workers since 1982 and the conversion of 10,000 part-time jobs into full-time jobs over the five-year life of the new contract. Under the agreement, union workers at U.P.S. would remain in the multiemployer pension plans, with benefit increases for most workers. In addition to the 10,000 new full-time positions, the two sides agreed that five-sixths of all new full-time openings created though attrition or expansion, would be filled by current part-timers, up from the four-fifths in the contract that expired July 31."

 

[PT Car Washer]

Reydluap....I'm from a time when we only sheeted packages on paper....the maximum weight limit was 50 lbs... and the average package car did not look like a dance hall.......... not to mention that every package car was completely washed every day...

The two-tier PT wage was primarily the result of $500 and $1000 bonuses for PT and FT respectively starting in 1982. It wasn't until the strike of 1997 that part-time wages would again increase.

"Ron Carey, president of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, said the agreement called for the first increase in the starting pay of part-time workers since 1982 and the conversion of 10,000 part-time jobs into full-time jobs over the five-year life of the new contract. Under the agreement, union workers at U.P.S. would remain in the multiemployer pension plans, with benefit increases for most workers. In addition to the 10,000 new full-time positions, the two sides agreed that five-sixths of all new full-time openings created though attrition or expansion, would be filled by current part-timers, up from the four-fifths in the contract that expired July 31."

That is how I remember it. Plus the economy was very weak at that time. Yes it was a wage concession but I don't think anybody thought it would last 30 years. $8.00 an hour in 1982 was nowhere near minimum wage.

 

[stink219]

Bad idea. Plus we can't get the Ptimers to participate as is when it comes to union matters.

Exactly. Ptimers have more pull if they stuck together and all voted. I have never not voted either in part time or full time. Yet I see so many PTs not vote. I understand that they are being neglected. But I fell that not voting and essentially deunionizing shows you don't care thus being neglected at the bargaining table even more. If that makes sense?

 

[PT Stewie]

There is 200 + part timers on my shift alone most of which do not care about the union until some get into trouble and need representation or need their job reinstated or they get the contract raise and want to bitch about their union dues going up never mind the .475 per hour increase,and God forbid they ask for their 3 1/2 while the sups finish the work as they head for the gate .Am I complaining here ?????????

I cannot wait until I get in tonite and listen to the bitching about dues going up because they recieved a raise. My argument has always been you pay dues say $50.00 a month $360.00 a year and the union negotiates for benefits that you have no copay for. Now the jack a-- management of the company wants $360.00 a month for benefits it is union busting.

 

[ocnewguy]

I cannot wait until I get in tonite and listen to the bitching about dues going up because they recieved a raise. My argument has always been you pay dues say $50.00 a month $360.00 a year and the union negotiates for benefits that you have no copay for. Now the jack a-- management of the company wants $360.00 a month for benefits it is union busting.

Yep. If any amount of money paid by p/ters for benefits gets negotiated, the company will have gotten exactly what they wanted for the whole contract. That's probably 60-70% part-timers opting out of insurance because they cant afford to lose a fifth of their salary every month. Hell they'd probably throw a nice raise and better progression in too just to get us to bite.

 

[frivolous petty small.]

So.......when there's a driver based strike and that Ptimer says "friend that guy. I'll take his route out" as you're on the picket line you'll be ok with that?[/QUOTE



I have the feeling he would cross the line.

 

[PT Stewie]

I will get my lawn chair ready

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

So.......when there's a driver based strike and that Ptimer says "friend that guy. I'll take his route out" as you're on the picket line you'll be ok with that?[/QUOTE



I have the feeling he would cross the line.

I honored the picket line in 1997; however, I did not spend a lot of time on the line---I found a job working construction for the 10 days or so that we were out of work.

 

[fr8dog]

So.......when there's a driver based strike and that Ptimer says "friend that guy. I'll take his route out" as you're on the picket line you'll be ok with that?[/QUOTE



I have the feeling he would cross the line.

Oh you can bet on him crossing the picket line. That's a givin. He's already stated he'd cross a fellow ups teamster picket line. Tool.

 

[bottomups]

I honored the picket line in 1997; however, I did not spend a lot of time on the line---I found a job working construction for the 10 days or so that we were out of work.

I scheduled vacation the first two weeks August this year just in case negotiations do not go well. I plan on working in the fishing industry for those two weeks. Will fill up the freezer with walleye fillets to get me through the winter.