Southwest Package Rider

[LagunaBrown]

Look I agree the retiree language is great and the healthcare improvements are amazing for them.

The fact still remains that again we are going to screw the guys behind us to take care our ourselves. The same thing we seem to be doing in almost every contract before.

You're right the retiree language could go away if we vote no but the opposite is also true. It could remain and we could gain in other areas.

I don't agree with 22.4. This company is doing great and it using pension woes/gains to help push it through in my mind.



It's not a scare tactic. Its a legitimate question. It could go away of course it could not also.

I enjoy a real discussion. Thank you.

 

[eats packages]

And full time drivers got to choose to go home or work and get paid if they rolled work over. They did not get laid off. This is the Southwest thread buddy.

no on the NMA and yes on the regional.

 

[dogs.bite.me]

Obvioulsy you did not learn from Z’s mistakes last contract.

Z was a local

A National not passing is different is it not?

National meaning that most of the country doesn’t agree.

Z voted at the 2 person panel to allow his supplement to be voted on, then urged a vote no on something he negotiated.

Leadership is urging yes votes here and memberships are a bit hesitant.

Company wasn’t going to give an inch to z being he helped negotiate the damn thing and then urged a no vote. Who does that?

 

[dogs.bite.me]

Z was a local

A National not passing is different is it not?

National meaning that most of the country doesn’t agree.

Z voted at the 2 person panel to allow his supplement to be voted on, then urged a vote no on something he negotiated.

Leadership is urging yes votes here and memberships are a bit hesitant.

Company wasn’t going to give an inch to z being he helped negotiate the damn thing and then urged a no vote. Who does that?

I admit I’m a bit ignorant on this whole procedure and I could be wrong. But I think above is the way it went.

 

[Smashmouth]

I never supported the creation of PT covers but workday-workweek language is different then cover driver language.

So you support the 22.4 language that pays your union brothers and sisters a significantly lower wage to do the same job you do, with no 9.5 protections, and having to work the weekends??? Better them then you I guess, right?? At what point do you put your foot down and say enough is enough?? Because by the time you do...there wont be anything left to put your foot down for, and no one left to have your back either!!

 

[Bubblehead]

Obvioulsy you did not learn from Z’s mistakes last contract.

Z got a reduced contract offer IMPOSED on his local by the IBT.
Apples and oranges to this "scare tactic" being used jointly by the Company and the IBT....and it's shameful that the IBT is using it as a selling point instead of telling UPS to kiss off.

 

[Smashmouth]

Funny I been saying that all along. The 22.4 is also a upgrade from the cover driver language and most of all the retiree language gets a huge bump if all the contracts pass. It’s important to take care of our retirees in the Southwest because they have taken care of us.

Hey brothers and sisters, where can I find the New southwest rider language? I waould like to see the differences between your rider and ours in the southern, becasue our TCD language got worse if anything.

 

[542thruNthru]

The point still remains that I don't agree with 22.4s and there really shouldn't be a reason for this language. I'm just happy to know that bases have been covered if this NMA passes.

The fact still remains that again we are going to screw the guys behind us to take care our ourselves. The same thing we seem to be doing in almost every contract before.

I don't agree with 22.4. This company is doing great and it using pension woes/gains to help push it through in my mind.

So you support the 22.4 language that pays your union brothers and sisters a significantly lower wage to do the same job you do, with no 9.5 protections, and having to work the weekends??? Better them then you I guess, right?? At what point do you put your foot down and say enough is enough?? Because by the time you do...there wont be anything left to put your foot down for, and no one left to have your back either!!

Yep you caught me I'm a big 22.4 supporter. Do yourself a favor and calm down. You're so ready to jump down someone's throat that you don't even realize who's on your side. You can check any thread, hell even ask @LagunaBrown how I feel about 22.4. I'm against it and have been since the beginning.

I was merely pointing out that if this crap NMA does pass that the workday-workweek language would protect people on Mondays. The same thing that other supplemental threads have said.

 

[Future]

Yep you caught me I'm a big 22.4 supporter. Do yourself a favor and calm down. You're so ready to jump down someone's throat that you don't even realize who's on your side. You can check any thread, hell even ask @LagunaBrown how I feel about 22.4. I'm against it and have been since the beginning.

I was merely pointing out that if this crap NMA does pass that the workday-workweek language would protect people on Mondays. The same thing that other supplemental threads have said.

Hmmmmmmmmmm...... I m leaning towards this of you ....

 

[542thruNthru]

Hmmmmmmmmmm...... I m leaning towards this of you ....View attachment 204982

 

[Future]

View attachment 204983

 

[542thruNthru]

View attachment 204984

Shut up cat lover

 

[Smashmouth]

Yep you caught me I'm a big 22.4 supporter. Do yourself a favor and calm down. You're so ready to jump down someone's throat that you don't even realize who's on your side. You can check any thread, hell even ask @LagunaBrown how I feel about 22.4. I'm against it and have been since the beginning.

I was merely pointing out that if this crap NMA does pass that the workday-workweek language would protect people on Mondays. The same thing that other supplemental threads have said.

No, no, not jumping down your throat, just some healthy debate....and I will say I went back through some older posts and saw some of your positions on 22.4 so its all good. However I still dont know how you think your protected from layoff on Monday. Number 1. By the company adding that little phrase to the end of the 8 hr/40hr guarantee.. “if work is available”, you know they must have some plan. Why add that language if you didnt have a plan to use it. Number 2. Yes, the new 22.4 are only to work either Tuesday to Saturday or Wednesday to Sunday(if it ever comes to that) So whats to stop the company from running a full sort on Saturday and then there being less work on Monday?? If I was the company and I was given a gift of a delivery driver at 16.00 less an hour, I’d be using the friend*#k out of them. Not saying everyone would be laid off on Monday, but I could easily see them cutting as many routes as they have 22.4s...so up to 25% on Monday...look there is a finite amount of work that comes into the system, sure they will be making pickups on Saturday, but thatsjust work that wouldhave been picked up on Monday if we didnt work Saturday. So now youre spreading the delivery of that work out over 6 days( and maybe eventually 7) instead of cramming it into 5....so seems quite possible people will be laid off. The phrase about “work available” needs to go from the RPCD language. Its not as big a deal in the 22.4 side because they are combo employees anyway and they could always work one of the sorts to get theirs. But we just need to DEMAND better from our Union and Vote No and tell them to fix this !

 

[542thruNthru]

No, no, not jumping down your throat, just some healthy debate....and I will say I went back through some older posts and saw some of your positions on 22.4 so its all good. However I still dont know how you think your protected from layoff on Monday. Number 1. By the company adding that little phrase to the end of the 8 hr/40hr guarantee.. “if work is available”, you know they must have some plan. Why add that language if you didnt have a plan to use it. Number 2. Yes, the new 22.4 are only to work either Tuesday to Saturday or Wednesday to Sunday(if it ever comes to that) So whats to stop the company from running a full sort on Saturday and then there being less work on Monday?? If I was the company and I was given a gift of a delivery driver at 16.00 less an hour, I’d be using the friend*#k out of them. Not saying everyone would be laid off on Monday, but I could easily see them cutting as many routes as they have 22.4s...so up to 25% on Monday...look there is a finite amount of work that comes into the system, sure they will be making pickups on Saturday, but thatsjust work that wouldhave been picked up on Monday if we didnt work Saturday. So now youre spreading the delivery of that work out over 6 days( and maybe eventually 7) instead of cramming it into 5....so seems quite possible people will be laid off. The phrase about “work available” needs to go from the RPCD language. Its not as big a deal in the 22.4 side because they are combo employees anyway and they could always work one of the sorts to get theirs. But we just need to DEMAND better from our Union and Vote No and tell them to fix this !

I understand your mistrust. I was a cover for many years also. The thing is the language guarantees it and all I can do is trust in the language. If my local screws me/us they will have a huge problem on their hands.

We are guaranteed to work Monday through Friday because of these reasons.

1. No 22.4 or cover driver can't work if a driver is layed off.
2. Our work week it's M-friend 8 hours a day 5 consecutive days.

3. The schedule has to be posted the Friday before. So if I'm scheduled I am guaranteed 8 hours work or no work.

4. If they were to lay me off Monday they would have to work me Saturday. Which in the new language says they can not do that. (Also if by some weird loop hole they did the company would have to pay me time and 1/2 for the day even if it wasn't a 6th punch.)

So this mean if they were to lay me off they would have to lay off every 22.4 and Cover Driver for the week also. Which we all know won't happen.

If you see any loop hole or can think of any I'd like to hear them. I will be sure to bring them up to my BA and other members so that it can be addressed. I don't want this to pass but I honestly think that as a RPCD that if it does I am safe from 1 day layoffs on Monday.

 

[Smashmouth]

I understand your mistrust. I was a cover for many years also. The thing is the language guarantees it and all I can do is trust in the language. If my local screws me/us they will have a huge problem on their hands.

We are guaranteed to work Monday through Friday because of these reasons.

1. No 22.4 or cover driver can't work if a driver is layed off.
2. Our work week it's M-friend 8 hours a day 5 consecutive days.
View attachment 205017

3. The schedule has to be posted the Friday before. So if I'm scheduled I am guaranteed 8 hours work or no work.
View attachment 205018

4. If they were to lay me off Monday they would have to work me Saturday. Which in the new language says they can not do that. (Also if by some weird loop hole they did the company would have to pay me time and 1/2 for the day even if it wasn't a 6th punch.)

View attachment 205019

So this mean if they were to lay me off they would have to lay off every 22.4 and Cover Driver for the week also. Which we all know won't happen.

If you see any loop hole or can think of any I'd like to hear them. I will be sure to bring them up to my BA and other members so that it can be addressed. I don't want this to pass but I honestly think that as a RPCD that if it does I am safe from 1 day layoffs on Monday.

We have no such language in the southern supplement....so every friday in your center, they post who is working the following week and what their start time is for every single day? they cant even figure out whos doing what route the next day here! So right now in your center if the volume doesnt come in, do they just ask people to take a day off? What kind of notice are they required to give if they were to lay you off? Ours is 24 hours....Ive got 31 years so it would never get to me..but I could see them laying off the junior employees on a Monday after they have the 22.4s work on Saturday.

 

[542thruNthru]

We have no such language in the southern supplement....so every friday in your center, they post who is working the following week and what their start time is for every single day? they cant even figure out whos doing what route the next day here! So right now in your center if the volume doesnt come in, do they just ask people to take a day off? What kind of notice are they required to give if they were to lay you off? Ours is 24 hours....Ive got 31 years so it would never get to me..but I could see them laying off the junior employees on a Monday after they have the 22.4s work on Saturday.

Lol this whole time I thought you were in the southwest package rider!

Yes every week the posted start times are put up along with the weekly bid for routes with drivers on Vacation/disability.

If there is no volume they will ask people to go home. If you were to be layed off you would be informed Friday that you are layed off for the week.

 

[govols019]

That was my whole point in the contract boogie man thread.

Seems to me an upgrade wouldn't include paying them considerably less an hour than a TCD.

 

[LagunaBrown]

So you support the 22.4 language that pays your union brothers and sisters a significantly lower wage to do the same job you do, with no 9.5 protections, and having to work the weekends??? Better them then you I guess, right?? At what point do you put your foot down and say enough is enough?? Because by the time you do...there wont be anything left to put your foot down for, and no one left to have your back either!!

We already have had a two tier driver (Called cover driver) put in the riders way back in 1997 when Ron Carey was President. The new 22.4 language is an upgrade because they get full time pension contributions that will add up to $129,000 over the life of the contract if they work their full 2080 hours for contribution. They also have never had and 9.5 language and forced to work weekends. How is that for food for thought.

 

[LagunaBrown]

Z got a reduced contract offer IMPOSED on his local by the IBT.
Apples and oranges to this "scare tactic" being used jointly by the Company and the IBT....and it's shameful that the IBT is using it as a selling point instead of telling UPS to kiss off.

Z got a reduced contract offer because they thought a no vote would stand. He lost on a technicality much like people now are setting themselves up for another if there is a weak voter turnout. When a general leads his troop to war he is responsible for their fate, ALL scenarios should be taken into account.

 

[MangoMango]

All I know is that I want LESS money. 55 hours a weeks for years is too much. Yes, I know I'm selfish. If the part timers dont want 22.4 wages, dont take the job.