The Euro death watch

[brett636]

What differnce would that really make ?
Back to French Francs, German Marks, and Greece Drachmas, Italian Liras, etc. ?

I suppose Germany isn't a socilaist country, besides having healthcare for everyone and 6 weeks paid vacation from day 1 you start, right ?

The road back to the pre-euro days will be a long and painful one. It won't be so easy going back and there will be hardships ahead for every member nation of the EU who dropped their own currency in favor of the Euro. Not so long ago 1 Euro was worth $1.49 U.S. and today it was down to $1.23 U.S. and falling fast. All its going to take is Greece to announce they are leaving the Euro and or Spain to start having similar economic problems and the Euro is toast. It will be the European version of the Mexican Peso.

 

[klein]

Brett, Simpson/Bowles includes entitlement reform. Not only can we not tax and grow ourselves out of the hole, we can't cut our way out of it either. It will take all of the above, a fact that only. The right has refused to face.

That's why I'm kinda hoping Romney and the republicans will win Novembers election.
Then find out how fast they will break that no new, ( raising ), tax pledge they all signed up to ! LOL That will be funny.

And then let them deal with not raising the debt ceiling in January.
All they need is $1.2 Trillion in cuts (that's miliatry, medicare and SS all combined).

 

[brett636]

Brett, Simpson/Bowles includes entitlement reform. Not only can we not tax and grow ourselves out of the hole, we can't cut our way out of it either. It will take all of the above, a fact that only. The right has refused to face.

I disagree. Tax increases never end up in reduced deficits, only increased spending. There is plenty of evidence to back that up. The problem isn't a revenue problem, its a spending problem, and increasing the revenue today only gives tomorrow's congress more to spend rather than cut since spending is much easier than cutting. Not only is cutting the only solution to this debt problem, but neutering future congress's ability to spend like drunken sailors is a must as well. Major cuts across the board and a balanced budget amendment will allow us to make great strides to future financial stability.

 

[brett636]

That's why I'm kinda hoping Romney and the republicans will win Novembers election.
Then find out how fast they will break that no new, ( raising ), tax pledge they all signed up to ! LOL That will be funny.

And then let them deal with not raising the debt ceiling in January.

I guess that will all depend on how many tea partiers get elected versus RINOS. Get some more tea party republicans in and the chances are slim at best that taxes will be increased, but if we get some more Dick Lugar style RINOS the republicans will just become democrat lite like they were during the Bush administration.

 

[bbsam]

Hmmm. Then explain Paul Ryan's budget. Lot's of deficits coming out of that fiscal warrior.

 

[klein]

So you disagree with Canada raising pension plan monthly payments ?
We had to do it because people are living longer and baby boomers are retiring now, too.
It's coming close to a point that we'll have soon more people on retirement than people working for a living.

Your solution is more guns ? Kill them off, or cut medicare , so they die earlier ?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Let the Bush tax cuts expire and reform the tax code.

 

[wkmac]

Hmmm. Then explain Paul Ryan's budget. Lot's of deficits coming out of that fiscal warrior.

Couple of years ago, Ryan's Roadmap plan was all the rage among GOPer's and on the surface it sounded good from a certain perspective but then I went to his website and actually ready the plan and it wasn't as fiscal as it was made out to be. There would still be deficits and gov't really wouldn't be cut. It was the typical GOP approach of letting the democrats expand gov't (I know, I know GOP does it too but let's maintain illusions shall we) and then when they get back power, they pull the accounting magic to convince everyone it's paid for. Thus gov't never get's fiscally balanced nor limited under GOP dominion. On top of all of that, with all the screaming and stomping by the GOPers about a VAT (value added tax) and rightly so, here comes Ryan introducing a VAT albeit under the name "Business Consumption Tax", a deceptive trick to try and hide the fact of what it really is.

Ryan would be a perfect fit with Romney because they are both charlatans who try and pretend what they really are not. Obama is beatable on so many levels and has been a horrible President just the same to the point it's not even funny. I'm coming to believe barring no shocks to the economy or life in general, he will serve a 2nd term as President. And that should speak volumes about the GOP and the voters who continue to support them.

 

[bbsam]

Couple of years ago, Ryan's Roadmap plan was all the rage among GOPer's and on the surface it sounded good from a certain perspective but then I went to his website and actually ready the plan and it wasn't as fiscal as it was made out to be. There would still be deficits and gov't really wouldn't be cut. It was the typical GOP approach of letting the democrats expand gov't (I know, I know GOP does it too but let's maintain illusions shall we) and then when they get back power, they pull the accounting magic to convince everyone it's paid for. Thus gov't never get's fiscally balanced nor limited under GOP dominion. On top of all of that, with all the screaming and stomping by the GOPers about a VAT (value added tax) and rightly so, here comes Ryan introducing a VAT albeit under the name "Business Consumption Tax", a deceptive trick to try and hide the fact of what it really is.

Ryan would be a perfect fit with Romney because they are both charlatans who try and pretend what they really are not. Obama is beatable on so many levels and has been a horrible President just the same to the point it's not even funny. I'm coming to believe barring no shocks to the economy or life in general, he will serve a 2nd term as President. And that should speak volumes about the GOP and the voters who continue to support them.

I believe brett agrees sinc he had no response to the question about Ryan. I really think Obama is waiting for his time to come out in support of both Simpson/Bowles and the Keystone pipeline. My guess is about a month before the convention.

 

[wkmac]

I believe brett agrees sinc he had no response to the question about Ryan. I really think Obama is waiting for his time to come out in support of both Simpson/Bowles and the Keystone pipeline. My guess is about a month before the convention.

Be interesting should he to see the response to those more on the left/progressive side of elective politics. After reading this a few days ago, a dissatisfaction with Obama is there but how wide it manifests itself is left (no pun) to be seen.

 

[brett636]

Hmmm. Then explain Paul Ryan's budget. Lot's of deficits coming out of that fiscal warrior.

I never brought up Paul Ryans budget plan. You did. I support the Mack Penny Plan.

Lanny Davis: Connie Mack's Penny Plan -- Worth Another Look

So you disagree with Canada raising pension plan monthly payments ?
We had to do it because people are living longer and baby boomers are retiring now, too.
It's coming close to a point that we'll have soon more people on retirement than people working for a living.

Your solution is more guns ? Kill them off, or cut medicare , so they die earlier ?

Just when I think you can't come up with a more ridiculous and irrelevant post you do just that. Kudos.

Let the Bush tax cuts expire and reform the tax code.

You do realize that everyone benefits from the Bush tax cuts and allowing them to expire in their entirety will result in the largest tax increase on the American people in our country's history?

I believe brett agrees sinc he had no response to the question about Ryan. I really think Obama is waiting for his time to come out in support of both Simpson/Bowles and the Keystone pipeline. My guess is about a month before the convention.

Sorry about not responding right away. After putting in an 11 hour day and spending another hour or so debunking your budget myths I decided sleeping was more important than waiting for your next asinine post.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

You do realize that everyone benefits from the Bush tax cuts and allowing them to expire in their entirety will result in the largest tax increase on the American people in our country's history?

Yes--I also realize that it will take drastic steps to get us out of debt.

 

[moreluck]

Yes--I also realize that it will take drastic steps to get us out of debt.

Steps that Obama is unwilling to take!!!

 

[Just_another_day_at_work]

I found a pretty interesting article I wanted to share:
The article with charts by Raoul Pal can be read with scirbd:
"The End Game: 2012 And 2013 Will Usher In The End" - The Scariest Presentation Ever? | ZeroHedge

 

[Just_another_day_at_work]

The Tea party failed and any party would, because of the system. The government would shut down if we don't have a debt limit hike every time it needed. All it is a show back and forth between reps and dems, then later after long negotiations and struggle whoa la debt limit hike voted by both parties. Deficits don't matter. If the government does some serious cuts the economy will sink(deflationary), so the solution inflate, hike whatever it takes not to cut.
My take on Bush tax cut: since 2001 the median wages didn't go up any higher in real value if you take what you could by with it (that cannot be counterfeited like "money" ) oil, gold and other commodities. If you add up inflation it's around 30 % since 2001 till now. here is one link for calculator
CPI Inflation Calculator
Most wages didn't go up that much, but my tax rate did, suddenly found myself in the higher tax bracket. In real value I make less and taxed more, it's the stealth mode that nobody talks about: inflationary taxing. So basically it already offsets the Bush tax cuts if not make it even higher taxing then before him.

 

[bbsam]

Yes--I also realize that it will take drastic steps to get us out of debt.

What?! You want the "job creators" to take drastic steps?! The horror!

 

[brett636]

Yes--I also realize that it will take drastic steps to get us out of debt.

I can understand how you came to this conclusion, but I maintain that it can only make the current debt problems worse.

There are two problems I see with this line of thinking.

First off you are probably assuming that tax rates and tax revenues are directly related to one another. That is when tax rates rise so does tax revenue. This is simply not the case and the easiest one to make is the Capital Gains tax rate. There is plenty of evidence that shows when the Capital gains tax rate rises, the tax revenue the government collects from this tax drops which removes any rational reason to raise it but does offer an incentive to continue lowering it. The same case can be made for straight up income taxes where you reduce the economic incentive to produce when the government takes more in taxes from the reward of producing more. Case in point is my personal paycheck. I'm sure you know what my overtime rate is, and I have calculated that after a certain number of hours for the week(over 54-55) my take home hourly rate is right around $10/hour despite my actual hourly rate being more than 4 times that amount. This has reduced my desire to work more hours despite the fact that more hours are available to me if I wanted them. The same holds true for business owners. At some point its not worth their time to continue producing due to taxes and they simply make a concious decision to not produce beyond a certain level.

Secondly, even if higher tax rates produced higher tax revenues I do not believe for one second that our politicians will honor that extra revenue as deficit reducing revenue. If lightening struck and they did so it would not last past one election cycle because most Congressmen have it in their mind that their people want to see the evidence of their tax dollars at work so these politicians will make up new ways to spend the extra revenue in their districts in order to continue to be re elected. To payoff this level of debt we need many Congresses and presidents to understand that the extra revenue from these higher taxes(if they actually produced higher revenue which they do not) is to be used for debt reduction only and honestly I have no faith that either party has the self control to make this happen past one election cycle. If you give these people more money they simply find more ways to spend it and then some. You have to reign in spending in a big way and then make it impossible to spend more before higher tax rates could solve the problem, but by then higher tax rates would be unnecessary. Do you see my logic here?

Its not just that I am against tax rate hikes because I am simply against higher taxes (because I am), but that I don't see it as a honest solution to this debt crisis we are in. Higher tax revenues for our politicians, regardless of party affiliation, won't mean squat unless they are forced to keep their spending in line.

 

[bbsam]

What I don't see as honest is putting through what all believed was a temporary tax cut and when it is due to expire crying about raising taxes.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Brett, what I want is for the IRS to be scrapped and replaced with the Fair Tax.

I'll take my personal tax picture as an example. I grossed $65K yet only had taxable income of $48K and as a result received a modest refund ($1.5K).

Give me my whole paycheck and tax me at 23%.

 

[wkmac]

Brett, what I want is for the IRS to be scrapped and replaced with the Fair Tax.

I'll take my personal tax picture as an example. I grossed $65K yet only had taxable income of $48K and as a result received a modest refund ($1.5K).

Give me my whole paycheck and tax me at 23%.

Fair Tax may eliminate the genreal public at large from direct contact with the IRS but they won't go away. They still have a mission from all the other various taxes to administer and they will also take on administration over collection of the sales tax under the Fair Tax system. People wrongly think the IRS came into being in 1913' but it was Lincoln under a 1862' Revenue Act that led to the creation of what we know today as IRS. People are also wrong in thinking there was no income tax before 1913' but Lincoln again can claim that honor in creating the income tax within the Revenue Tax Act of 1861'.

When we got our present income tax in1913', most wage earners were never effected but that began to change after the passage of the Victory Tax Act in 1942' and changed yet again after the Treasury Reorganization Plan of 1950' and the creation of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954' which replaced the IRC of 1939'. Later Reorganizations and the Code of 1986' have yet again changed the nature and function of the IRS and the Income Tax as we know it.