The Truth About Right to Work (for less) in Indiana

[PobreCarlos]

As an addendum to "crowbar's" assertion made in criticism of the Indiana Legislature's "end run" action, namely....

"If 'your' side had any credibility you wouldn't have done an end run around the people and would have put it to a general vote via ballot initiative."

...I offer up the following article in the Pioneer Press at TwinCities.com (Minnesota is currently having a discussion about "RTW" as well), which can be found at.....

Union fight brews with right-to-work push in Minnesota - TwinCities.com

which notes that, in Minnesota, the RTW proponents are PROPOSING a "ballot initiative" and it's the OPPONENTS of the measure who are saying that the issue belongs in the legislature! Here's a quote from the article:

"Constitutional amendments require no action by the governor to get on the ballot, and Gov. Mark Dayton and Democratic leaders HAVE CRITICIZED THE REPUBLICAN MAJORITY FOR SEEKING CHANGE THROUGH BALLOT INITIATIVES RATHER THAN THROUGH THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS".

Yep...guess it was "my side" that was/is trying to accomplish an "end run" alright. But one wonders just which "side" seems to be talking out of both sides of their mouths? And how does that speak to the "credibility" that "crowbar" mentions?

Seems "RTW" opponents want it both ways, doesn't it?

 

[hypocrisy]

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Whatsa matter Pobre? Did Romney have a garlicky dinner last night? Feed him some fruit next time, that's what my ex-wife always did.

Thanks for taking time out from helping the 'wide stance-ers' to run your mouth some more! Even your semi-allies here are a tad uncomfortable now as you have more than exposed that your real focus is 'ridding this Country of Unions that hurt America'. It's more than apparent that you are willing to abuse the process and thwart the people any way possible to put us all in the poorhouse, not try to 'make the Union work harder for members' or something so noble as freedom.

So I'll toast to your success Pobre (you can use the blue spoon), as you haven't changed any ones mind here but you have caused some who thought your original argument sounded good but now are quite uncomfortable with it. Even your decertification suggestion produces a 66% jobless rate by your own admission. Even the Indiana was doing so well, while being Union Shop, by your own admission.

And to top it off, you are an elitist RTW "person of worth" scumbag by your own admission.

Stop smelling my finger Pobre.

 

[moreluck]

Why do you guys keep posting that repetitive crap? It's creepy!

 

[hypocrisy]

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Right-to-work law did not help Oklahoma’s labor market | Economic Policy Institute

Where are the jobs Pobre? Seems like you just screwed Indiana big time.

Donate to Fight RTW(For LESS)

Cease engaging olfactory receptors on my tactile member Pobre.

 

[over9five]

Please stop with the finger references.
No more warnings.

 

[804brown]

Right-to-work law did not help Oklahoma’s labor market | Economic Policy Institute

Where are the jobs Pobre? Seems like you just screwed Indiana big time.

Donate to Fight RTW(For LESS)

Cease engaging olfactory receptors on my tactile member Pobre.

Pete Rimsans, executive director of the building trades union in Indiana, said that in 2001, when Oklahoma became the last state to adopt a "right to work" law, construction wages there and in Indiana were only 50 cents apart. Today, Rimsans said, the hourly construction wages in Oklahoma are $8.50 plus about $1.31 in benefits, while in Indiana, they are $21.92 an hour, with $10.65 worth of benefits.
​

 

[804brown]

"The 1 percent are trying to hand out edicts from this House--this is our House! Our interests are not being represented properly. A lot of Democrats understand what this is about, but others don't. Every aspect of the working class has benefited from unions--for vacations, the weekend, the eight-hour day and benefits. This bill is about taking away all the gains the working class has made in this country and putting more profits in the pockets of fat cats.
As friend. Scott Fitzgerald said, "The rich are very different from you and me." They will use wedges to divide us--racism, immigrant-bashing, homophobia. It's all meant to divide the 99 percent. We have to give up all of that. "
​

 

[804brown]

Occupy Purdue member and rally co-organizer Tithi Bhattacharya spelled out the hypocrisy of the politicians:

They call this a democracy. Mitch Daniels listed his net wealth to be over $15 million. Is this a democracy where people like Mitch, with the swish of a pen, get to decide the wage cuts and pension cuts for the rest of us? No!
Is this a democracy when people like Mitch and his cronies moralize about "political process" to us, when thousands of ordinary people of this state stand in the corridors of this legislature for their fates to be decided by a bunch of rich folks? No!
Is this a democracy when our lives are sold by them inside fancy rooms, while we stand outside not being heard? No!
This is what democracy looks like. And politicians, you better take a good look, because this is not going to go away.
​

 

[PobreCarlos]

Pete Rimsans, executive director of the building trades union in Indiana, said that in 2001, when Oklahoma became the last state to adopt a "right to work" law, construction wages there and in Indiana were only 50 cents apart. Today, Rimsans said, the hourly construction wages in Oklahoma are $8.50 plus about $1.31 in benefits, while in Indiana, they are $21.92 an hour, with $10.65 worth of benefits.
​

My Goodness, the "executive director of the building trades union in Indiana" wouldn't have a reason to shade the truth on such matters, would he? [smile] My guess is that he's comparing NON-union construction in Oklahoma with the limited UNION construction going on in Indiana....of which there's rather little outside of government-subsidized projects (most of which are Federally mandated; not neccessarily the result of State decision). And right now the guy is scared out of his wits that "union wages" will, in the future, be paid to even FEWER than the small minority that's currently collecting them Remember, he and his tried to get a rider to the Indiana RTW legislation (which, with such a rider, his union group would support!) which specified, I believe, that current union contractors - and current union contractors alone! - would be excluded from its provisions. His fellow unionists, under the banner of the AFL-CIO, refused to go along with that plan of course.

Actually, most of the guys I see building houses and such in Indiana - and in the [prior] RTW states as well - are ALL apparently being paid at about the same level. And, granted, most of those wages aren't very high.....nor are construction workers being employed in vast numbers at ANY level of compensation today. In addition, a large junk of the workers on the jobs I've seen appeared to be immigrants....and, anecdotally, having seen groups of them gather around one of their party to admire his "green card", it would appear many of them were "illegal" as well. That seems to be a much GREATER factor in construction jobs (and wages) today than any relatively "rtw" issues.

That said, it might be remembered that Indianapolis recently ranked first in the list of the nation's largest cities in terms of "affordability". That index primarily concerned itself with the ratio between wages and the cost of housing. With that in mind (and being SOMEWHAT familiar with construction wages in other RTW states as well), I seriously doubt that RTW is near the issue in terms of wages as the very "boom and bust" nature of the industry itself. For example, note that wages are higher than those of BOTH states in RTW locales like North Dakota, where the industry is booming.

 

[PobreCarlos]

804brown;

When the people elect him, via a defined democratic process, SPECIFICALLY to sign such documents, then "yes", it *IS* "democracy". Seems those who you term this "bunch of rich folks" actually are the overwhelming majority of those who voted in the last Hoosier gubernatorial and representative elections. And it also seems that those who would FRUSTRATE the free choice of the majority of the voters are those who are ANTI-"democracy".

What, to your mind, is "democracy"? Any and everything that supports YOUR - and yours alone! - political opinions?

If so, fortunately the people (read "the voters") in Indiana don't appear to agree with you. They've seen the "benefits" FORCED "unionism" brought to their State....and they DEMOCRATICALLY decided that they no longer wanted any part of it.

As for "where are the jobs"....well, they seem to be coming. Note the uproar in London, Ontario concerning Cat's Electro-Motive plant being closed, with the production slated to be moved to Indiana...and why the locals there say that the timing of the closure - and the move - may not benot coincidental. Reference.....

Caterpillar closes locomotive plant

....or.....

What will it take to win the lockout at Electro-Motive Diesel? | Toronto Media Co-op

....or.....

Caterpillar pulls plug on London plant - The Globe and Mail

Here's a relevent quote from the last reference....

"Union officials and other observers expect a new Progress Rail plant in Muncie, Ind., to be the beneficiary. The closing was announced 36 hours after Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels signed so-called right-to-work legislation, which makes it more difficult for unions to organize.

'IT'S POSSIBLE THAT'S A COINCIDENCE, BUT DOUBTFUL', said Mike Moffat, a professor at University of Western Ontario in London who has followed the lockout closely."

Hoosier tend to like news like that.

 

[Catatonic]

Occupy Purdue member and rally co-organizer Tithi Bhattacharya spelled out the hypocrisy of the politicians:

They call this a democracy. Mitch Daniels listed his net wealth to be over $15 million. Is this a democracy where people like Mitch, with the swish of a pen, get to decide the wage cuts and pension cuts for the rest of us? No!
Is this a democracy when people like Mitch and his cronies moralize about "political process" to us, when thousands of ordinary people of this state stand in the corridors of this legislature for their fates to be decided by a bunch of rich folks? No!
Is this a democracy when our lives are sold by them inside fancy rooms, while we stand outside not being heard? No!
This is what democracy looks like. And politicians, you better take a good look, because this is not going to go away.
​

A few points:
1) Democracy is 50% + 1
2) There are no democracies in the United States at the State and National levels. All modern Democracies, as in the US, are actually some form of Democratic Republic.
3) The proposition process in California is a form of a true Democratic process. Did I mention California?

 

[Catatonic]

Why do you guys keep posting that repetitive crap? It's creepy!

Because they're guys.