Time to vote on the Ohio Rider again

[Stonefish]

I did not mean disrespect toward your post or you. Sorry you took it that way, it was directed against rider.

I don't take things that way on here you don't have to worry about it. Everyone is emotional and don't need to be. I can't wait until we get this Ohio Rider done and the bickering stops. Don't worry about my feelings but thanks anyway. People take this site way too serious

 

[Stonefish]

That's not what I said and you weren't there to quote me.
Ask Smokey again exactly what I said.

Who the heck is that

 

[Stonefish]

If we are talking about the year long helpers pay in the 413 (who would allow year long helpers anyway?) or the plateau year vacation debacle, save your breath.
The plateau vacation issue has been "decided" and "clarified" several times over and still isn't any clearer and will disappear by attrition before it is ever settled.

Please tell me that there is some meaningful change in the latest attempt to ratify the Ohio Rider?

Discipline issue maybe

 

[QKRSTKR]

Whatever turns out stone, bottom line is the union is slapping us in the face putting this back out with nothing gained. Louisville rider they offered a $1000 signing bonus " (transport pay)". Where is our $1000 bonus at? Not that a signing bonus is the answer, but at least it's something to sweeten the pot. We did vote it down twice already.

 

[Stonefish]

Whatever turns out stone, bottom line is the union is slapping us in the face putting this back out with nothing gained. Louisville rider they offered a $1000 signing bonus " (transport pay)". Where is our $1000 bonus at? Not that a signing bonus is the answer, but at least it's something to sweeten the pot. We did vote it down twice already.

As you stated the bonus is a transportation issue that's why they are getting it. They have to order more buses or trams whatever they call them. That was in the last offer in 89 that they already rejected.

We are on opposite sides of the fence regarding voting yes or no. People have their own reasons for how they vote and it is their right we just don't agree with each other and that ok.

The Ohio Rider can not and will not change the healthcare, 17 I, shorten progression, create more 22.3 jobs in Ohio. It is in my opinion a dead issue. These things were negotiated in the National Master and Central Region. They can't be renegotiated.

Some of the things that are being asked for in Ohio such as stop subcontracting protect workers from harassment and improve working conditions are also addressed in the National Master. We should be grieving those issues with the facts. I understand certain people aren't happy but the language in the contract is very good it just needs to be enforced. I have been successful when they have tried to harass me in the past to put a stop to it.

Vote however you want just vote (YES )

 

[O/C]

As you stated the bonus is a transportation issue that's why they are getting it. They have to order more buses or trams whatever they call them. That was in the last offer in 89 that they already rejected.

We are on opposite sides of the fence regarding voting yes or no. People have their own reasons for how they vote and it is their right we just don't agree with each other and that ok.

The Ohio Rider can not and will not change the healthcare, 17 I, shorten progression, create more 22.3 jobs in Ohio. It is in my opinion a dead issue. These things were negotiated in the National Master and Central Region. They can't be renegotiated.

Some of the things that are being asked for in Ohio such as stop subcontracting protect workers from harassment and improve working conditions are also addressed in the National Master. We should be grieving those issues with the facts. I understand certain people aren't happy but the language in the contract is very good it just needs to be enforced. I have been successful when they have tried to harass me in the past to put a stop to it.

Vote however you want just vote (YES )

I pretty much agree with your observations, with the exception of voting yes. You are sure right about the current contract language needing to be enforced, but how are we going to go about that. The disrespect that the company has shown to the Teamsters union has grown considerably since the "97" strike. Face it without the strike option, the grievance procedures are toothless. The company permits and dictates our contracts now.

The whole "let them eat cake" attitude from the union leadership caused this contract to drag on and on. The members who knew anything started to ask questions and all we got was sound bites from the International. When will they learn that the "old school" standard of keeping the membership in the dark will not work with todays current technology and access to the internet. You can say anything bad about Ron Carey, but one thing he did was keep us informed during the l997 contract negotiations.

Now we are in a chess match to get this contract finalized, pawns are being sacrificed along the way.

Is there any possibility of re-negotating this master, who knows, maybe if they deadlock these supplements. Remember we are still currently working under the old contract, anything is possible till this one is signed and delivered.






Now we are in a chess match to get this contract finalized,

 

[Stonefish]

I pretty much agree with your observations, with the exception of voting yes. You are sure right about the current contract language needing to be enforced, but how are we going to go about that. The disrespect that the company has shown to the Teamsters union has grown considerably since the "97" strike. Face it without the strike option, the grievance procedures are toothless. The company permits and dictates our contracts now.

The whole "let them eat cake" attitude from the union leadership caused this contract to drag on and on. The members who knew anything started to ask questions and all we got was sound bites from the International. When will they learn that the "old school" standard of keeping the membership in the dark will not work with todays current technology and access to the internet. You can say anything bad about Ron Carey, but one thing he did was keep us informed during the l997 contract negotiations.

Now we are in a chess match to get this contract finalized, pawns are being sacrificed along the way.

Is there any possibility of re-negotating this master, who knows, maybe if they deadlock these supplements. Remember we are still currently working under the old contract, anything is possible till this one is signed and delivered.

Now we are in a chess match to get this contract finalized,

How we enforce the language is file and hold people accountable. We disagree with each other on the company permits and dictates our contracts. I feel there could be strike issues but there aren't any in Ohio. The National and Central passed now we are into the Ohio Rider. There is nothing in the Ohio Rider that can be changed to make some people happy they are going to continue the no vote no matter what. Regardless of what people try to say it would be illegal to open the National or Central and the Ohio Rider can't change them.
I think the IBT and the membership learned a lot from this situation. IBT should have communicated better throughout (which GST Hall admitted to already) and the membership should have got involved in the process from the beginning with proposal meetings, submitting their proposals in greater numbers. No one knew what was going to be proposed on either side before negotiations so for someone to say they would have been at the meetings or sent in proposals if they knew is hogwash. They had opportunity.
Strike is an option but not a good one in my opinion. There is too much to lose regarding this particular situation with the climate union's are in. There are situations where we will need to use it be not now in my opinion.

 

[Inthegame]

Face it without the strike option, the grievance procedures are toothless. The company permits and dictates our contracts now.

The whole "let them eat cake" attitude from the union leadership caused this contract to drag on and on. The members who knew anything started to ask questions and all we got was sound bites from the International. When will they learn that the "old school" standard of keeping the membership in the dark will not work with todays current technology and access to the internet. You can say anything bad about Ron Carey, but one thing he did was keep us informed during the l997 contract negotiations.
Now we are in a chess match to get this contract finalized, pawns are being sacrificed along the way.

Is there any possibility of re-negotating this master, who knows, maybe if they deadlock these supplements. Remember we are still currently working under the old contract, anything is possible till this one is signed and delivered.

For the millionth time, NO the supplements will not reopen and change what has been accepted in the National Master. And if members,
especially those that visit BC, claimed they're not informed, then they're intentionally being obstinate and choosing not to comprehend. As far as your other charge, the Central HAS the right to strike. Read Art 5 sec 3. Or hasn't your Vote NO leader explained that to those "independent" thinking pawns?

 

[Stonefish]

For the millionth time, NO the supplements will not reopen and change what has been accepted in the National Master. And if members,
especially those that visit BC, claimed they're not informed, then they're intentionally being obstinate and choosing not to comprehend. As far as your other charge, the Central HAS the right to strike. Read Art 5 sec 3. Or hasn't your Vote NO leader explained that to those "independent" thinking pawns?

I was trying to put it nicely because yesterday I was accused of being mean which I wasn't but anyway nicely put.

 

[O/C]

For the millionth time, NO the supplements will not reopen and change what has been accepted in the National Master. And if members,
especially those that visit BC, claimed they're not informed, then they're intentionally being obstinate and choosing not to comprehend. As far as your other charge, the Central HAS the right to strike. Read Art 5 sec 3. Or hasn't your Vote NO leader explained that to those "independent" thinking pawns?

I really do not have a leader, pretty independent, no secret agenda here. We did comprehend far too well.

 

[Bubblehead]

For the millionth time, NO the supplements will not reopen and change what has been accepted in the National Master. And if members,
especially those that visit BC, claimed they're not informed, then they're intentionally being obstinate and choosing not to comprehend. As far as your other charge, the Central HAS the right to strike. Read Art 5 sec 3. Or hasn't your Vote NO leader explained that to those "independent" thinking pawns?

Are you saying regional and local supplements do not provide the autonomy to redefine what is contained in forward language from other supplements and the master?
I do believe the IBT and like minded people like yourself don't intend to consider it, but make no mistake, many of us comprehend but don't except that to be the case as long as these supplements continue to be voted down.

 

[QKRSTKR]

Right on bubblehead. Why can't any language be addressed in the rider? Wages are spelled out in there for doubles, triples, double 40s and I think some clerical. So are we to believe no other compensation can be attained through the Ohio rider?

Also the 89 folks seen through the "transportation fee". Why not pay them hourly for the time they get into a security delay and transport time? Not a flat $1000 fee.

 

[QKRSTKR]

The following articles and subsections of this Ohio state rider shall SUPERSEDE the corresponding articles and subsections of the supplemental and national master agreement. Page 1 of rider.

Here is an example. Discharge and suspension:

Article 17 of the central conference of teamsters supplemental agreement shall apply.

So are u telling me we can't remove this language? If so why not? Seems to me if it's in there it can be changed.

 

[Stonefish]

For the millionth time, NO the supplements will not reopen and change what has been accepted in the National Master. And if members,
especially those that visit BC, claimed they're not informed, then they're intentionally being obstinate and choosing not to comprehend. As far as your other charge, the Central HAS the right to strike. Read Art 5 sec 3. Or hasn't your Vote NO leader explained that to those "independent" thinking pawns?

They are never going to change their minds but it is fun trying

 

[Stonefish]

The following articles and subsections of this Ohio state rider shall SUPERSEDE the corresponding articles and subsections of the supplemental and national master agreement. Page 1 of rider.

Here is an example. Discharge and suspension:

Article 17 of the central conference of teamsters supplemental agreement shall apply.

So are u telling me we can't remove this language? If so why not? Seems to me if it's in there it can be changed.

If you think that any employer is not going to have discharge or suspension clause you have no sense of reality or have never been involved in negotiations. So no is isn't going to be removed

 

[QKRSTKR]

Ok, 17 I could be removed though. Other serious offenses. Give me a break man. Sorry I wasn't more clear. Yes, discharge and suspension is not going away.

 

[QKRSTKR]

According to all the "just vote yes" mailings today, one from the local says,

New language, "in cases where the union alleges excessive discipline notices are being administered to employees, the union, district ops. Manager, or designee, and district labor manager will meet to discuss the matter.

IF that is the case, stonefish was right and I was wrong. My apology to you, as a man of my word.

Still, just vote NO, we can do better.

 

[Stonefish]

According to all the "just vote yes" mailings today, one from the local says,

New language, "in cases where the union alleges excessive discipline notices are being administered to employees, the union, district ops. Manager, or designee, and district labor manager will meet to discuss the matter.

IF that is the case, stonefish was right and I was wrong. My apology to you, as a man of my word.

Still, just vote NO, we can do better.

Thank you I appreciate it but no apology needed. You can vote yes this time. Come on man

 

[QKRSTKR]

Thank you I appreciate it but no apology needed. You can vote yes this time. Come on man

No!

 

[Stonefish]

No!

YES!!!! Infinity