You must have a really good pension and insurance plan ! Any reductions yet ?
"To all UPS Employees concerned about their pensions & Benefits" !!!!!!
- Thread starter wildgoose
- Start date
Bottom line on Central States is a loosing propasition ! There is no unity like every one professes either ! Up north or out west where the pensions are stable could give a rats as@ about us. Our union representation is lackluster at best. Hoffa has lost the respect of the people that rely on his judgement and decision making to keep things on the up & up ! Like i said before it should be a even slate for all UPS and this would never have happen but it has now like any business you have to make a decision to stay like you are or try to move on to something better !
SignatureRequired
Active Member
The pension situation with IBT will only get worse. How long can UPS sustain to support these other companies that either do not contribute or do not contribute enough to cover their own employees. UPS contributes more than enough. Because of what has happened to the industry and the way this pension plan was set up...UPSers are the ones paying for it!
tieguy
Banned
Wild goose you guys really do your potential members a disservice when you keep throwing misinformation like this around. You would have to significantly raise dues and contributions to deliver what you're promising. Anyone with even a modest understanding of the pension issue can see through your promises. Therefore if you're going to make them and expect to win support then you should provide a lot more detail to show you and your friends at APWA have done their homework. Throwing big dollar amounts out there does not pass the test.
dragracer66
Well-Known Member
Wildgoose...If you honestly believe any 10+ year employee is going to vote them in your nut's....It sound's like your union needs a change in slate not a new governing body. What happened to the central state's suck's but getting another "union" in there is not going to do anything for those guy's retiring soon. How many year's do you have with parcel? if you even work for parcel. And to answer you question yes I am in the IAM and I will enjoy that pension. We just had a mechanic retire this april his pension is $5679 a month.
Well i don`t see Hoffa stepping up to the plate to address the issue so therefore i assume he see`s no problem ? Tieguy the administration cost to keep Central States alone running is large. But let me know what the cost is if you can find out - i for one would like to know. The disservice you say is that the poor laborers (package car drivers) that start at 21 have to work maybe till 62 in packages. Only a lucky few get into feeders- Me ! I may not have all the answers but like i said please educate me ! A ups only pension seems to work very well as i see and hear. I`m tired of being someones goat. Tell me why i should stay with the teamsters - loyality seems to be the loosing theme so far. Where is Hoffa ?
dragracer66
Well-Known Member
Hey wild when the contract expires try to get the company to revisit the company held pension they would be fool's not too!!!
brett636
Well-Known Member
Still 30 and out at my hub. Although I am planning my retirement without taking my pensions and free healthcare into consideration so that they will just be a bonus if I actually get them.
Now that is so wrong to think that way. You like everyone else should not have to assume you might be getting the pension ! Like saying its okay if you don`t ???? The company has paid out super large sums of $ just for that purpose and your letting the teamsters off the hook. What ever happened to accountability ? I know New Yorkers would be burning places down if their pension was reduced or lost ! The south has started getting the information about the lacking of funding of our pensions & benefits. They are getting fired up.
Because UPS is the largest unionized work force in the world. FedEx is non-union, and DHL doesn't even come close to matching up to the size of UPS.
This is why you pay for the teamsters to represent you?Brett talks all kinds of crap about the APWA but then makes statements like this proven how much faith he has in the IBT.WOW! makes me want to run wright out and join the IBT.NOT APWA all the way.GET INFORMED BEFORE ITS TO LATE!Still 30 and out at my hub. Although I am planning my retirement without taking my pensions and free healthcare into consideration so that they will just be a bonus if I actually get them.
wily_old_vet
Well-Known Member
Wildgoose-My fear as a UPS Teamster retiree is that if we did switch to APWA that would drastically reduce the money coming into my particular plan and my benefits would be reduced. Comments?
Now you know how i feel about us (Central States) recepients. The teamsters want the ability to change your pesnion via the government red zone. It allows them to reduce pensions even after you start collecting. I have a feeling nobody will be taken care of because of the lack of insight into managing the central states fund ! I hear the western fund is expecting changes soon ? The insurance plan we have was negotiated. Anyone else would be doing the same thing. I`m not sure how the money will be covered for the retiree`s yet. But it will be addressed.
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nospinzone
Well-Known Member
Mac is entirely correct here. This is a point that Van and Danny make crystal clear in the meetings, and is completely spelled out on the website. However, in our discussions here, we usually assume that people understand that the $7000/month is for the new hires. If there is any question…..please review the pension goals page on the website where it is in black and white. Remember, assuming makes an ass out of you and me.wkmac said:
My understanding of the APWA position on this is…In the short term this scenario is accurate. APWA payouts would be $1000 for every five years of service. Benefits accrued under Teamsters would be paid out by the IBT under whatever their current benefit schedule is at whatever minimum retirement age.wkmac said:
During this time, APWA would be filing a federal lawsuit against Teamsters to seize the monies that the employees contributed to their retirements as well as a reasonable rate of interest return. Should Teamsters not have enough money to cover this, UPS, who is the guarantor of the pension fund, would be required to make up the difference. Once APWA controls these monies, which they believe the legal process will take 3-5yrs, you would receive one check from APWA, the sum of which would be the monthly payout promised to you by IBT plus the payout you’ve earned during your time with APWA. The minimum retirement ages set by CS/IBT would be disregarded and all payouts would follow a simple 15, 20, 25, 30 yr payout schedule.
UPS contributes to the pension fund regardless of the employee’s union status. And the union manages and distributes the pension benefits regardless of the recipient’s membership status. Therefore, once APWA wins the election, UPS would begin depositing pension contributions into the APWA account. The previously contributed funds would potentially be awarded to APWA pending the lawsuit described above. The decline in union membership would only affect the membership fees, which is what funds the daily operations of the union. However, I believe that interest in the APWA will rise as people see that this is a truly democratic union where every elected official is vulnerable to removal from office by a direct vote….unlike the aristocratic, pseudo-democratic Teamsters.sendagain said:
From the APWA’s website:dragracer66 said:
--This organization is SOLELY and EXCLUSIVELY for the benefit of any hourly employee of UPS. This includes ANY company owned by UPS.
--Every APWA officer must have 10 years as UPS hourly employee to be eligible for any position.
--Our new membership is composed of UPS employees….
We already have a multi-employer union/pension. We don't want to go down that road again.
I disagree. Based on the above information, if you stay with Teamsters, you’re going to get a pitiful pension payout. If you switch to APWA, you would get whatever you’ve earned with IBT, plus the APWA payout at a rate of $1000 for every five years of service(which would equal $4000/month if you work another 20yrs). In the end, you wont be any worse off for sure. In addition, your union representation would drastically improve. The business agents would only be servicing the UPS facilities, which drastically decreases their workload from the present situation. Thus, they have more time to focus on your problems, and resolve your issues, and improve your life.Pip said:
UPS doesn’t have a choice in this matter. Once a union is the legally recognized bargaining agent, they have the legal obligation to negotiate with the employer on behalf of its members, and the employer is required to come to the table and negotiate in good faith. Should UPS choose to attempt to strong arm the newly formed APWA, then the union can use its collective power to threaten a strike. If APWA is representing Parcel and Freight, coupled with the strong likelihood that the IPA would form a strong relationship with us, then our strike threat definitely has some bite behind it. Bottom line is that UPS will be legally required to negotiate with the APWA.Dragracer66 said:
APWA IS THE BETTER CHOICE
Nospin
wkmac
Well-Known Member
nospin,
Thanks for addressing this because I wasn't aware of this aspect. Last time I spoke via email with Van which was probably a year ago he did say concerning the IBT controlled monies that no specifics were in place but a couple of options were being looked at. I guess this is the option they decided to go with. Not sure they could win this in court but one advantage they would have if it went that far is they are not liked by the gov't to begin with. On the flipside, if UPS saw that they might get stuck double paying on our retirement, they may side with the IBT and fight this but on the flipside if the facts suggested that with IBT over the longhaul they'd stand the chance of paying more and being liable for more than with APWA they may sit this one out hoping the less costly for them wins out. It would definitely set up a real interesting scenario IMO.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Pip,
I disagree as well and I'll give you an example. I have 25 years in currently, all FT, with CS. Based on the current rules, to gain the max benefit I've got just under 13 years to go but here's the difference as I understand it.
With CS through age 62 or 13 more work years for a total of 38 years service.
Max benefit about $3200 and I'm being generous here from my understanding and somewhere between $500 to $1000 per month for insurance. That $3200 would also be reduced for spousal support upon my death so the benefit would actually be somewhat less, somewhere between $2500 and $3000 per month is I understand correctly. Right now based on my current 25 years service, if I left right now and didn't draw until age 62 I'd get just over $2000 per month. So for the next 13 or so years I'll gain an extra $1000 or so at the most.
With APWA
I'll still have to draw for my 25 years service from CS barring APWA doing something in court but using their formula, over the next 13 years service I could earn a payout of $2600 per month because under their plan you get right at $200 per month for every year of service so 13x$200, you get the picture. Also at 62 CS work restrictions reduce drastically but as we saw a couple of years back, they could eliminate all retirement working under all conditions. APWA could as well but the likelyhood is remote because the same conditions and incentives for work restricitions are just not there with the APWA like it is with the IBT.
Bottomline, at present I can stay where I'm at and gain maybe another $1000 per month or I can go with APWA and almost gain an amount equal to ($2600 per month)what I would with 38 years under the CS plan but do only after 13 years of service. Now I will admit the more time goes by this scenario for the APWA loses some of it's appeal but that's the way I see it at the present moment. There are pros and cons either way you go but at present I see nothing that the IBT can do to fix the situation so it will at best stay the same or there is the chance it could become worse as the babyboomers haven't really hit yet. It's not an easy decision but it's not a hard one either.
JMO.
dragracer66
Well-Known Member
The only way Parcel will sit down with the apwa is if they are the sole party representing any former teamster's. The apwa has no shot in hell to get all 225,000 teamster's to vote them in. Like I said before nobody with 10+ year's are going to throw away those years and start over again you guy's are dreaming.Mac is entirely correct here. This is a point that Van and Danny make crystal clear in the meetings, and is completely spelled out on the website. However, in our discussions here, we usually assume that people understand that the $7000/month is for the new hires. If there is any question…..please review the pension goals page on the website where it is in black and white. Remember, assuming makes an ass out of you and me.
My understanding of the APWA position on this is…In the short term this scenario is accurate. APWA payouts would be $1000 for every five years of service. Benefits accrued under Teamsters would be paid out by the IBT under whatever their current benefit schedule is at whatever minimum retirement age.
During this time, APWA would be filing a federal lawsuit against Teamsters to seize the monies that the employees contributed to their retirements as well as a reasonable rate of interest return. Should Teamsters not have enough money to cover this, UPS, who is the guarantor of the pension fund, would be required to make up the difference. Once APWA controls these monies, which they believe the legal process will take 3-5yrs, you would receive one check from APWA, the sum of which would be the monthly payout promised to you by IBT plus the payout you’ve earned during your time with APWA. The minimum retirement ages set by CS/IBT would be disregarded and all payouts would follow a simple 15, 20, 25, 30 yr payout schedule.
UPS contributes to the pension fund regardless of the employee’s union status. And the union manages and distributes the pension benefits regardless of the recipient’s membership status. Therefore, once APWA wins the election, UPS would begin depositing pension contributions into the APWA account. The previously contributed funds would potentially be awarded to APWA pending the lawsuit described above. The decline in union membership would only affect the membership fees, which is what funds the daily operations of the union. However, I believe that interest in the APWA will rise as people see that this is a truly democratic union where every elected official is vulnerable to removal from office by a direct vote….unlike the aristocratic, pseudo-democratic Teamsters.
From the APWA’s website:
--This organization is SOLELY and EXCLUSIVELY for the benefit of any hourly employee of UPS. This includes ANY company owned by UPS.
--Every APWA officer must have 10 years as UPS hourly employee to be eligible for any position.
--Our new membership is composed of UPS employees….
We already have a multi-employer union/pension. We don't want to go down that road again.
I disagree. Based on the above information, if you stay with Teamsters, you’re going to get a pitiful pension payout. If you switch to APWA, you would get whatever you’ve earned with IBT, plus the APWA payout at a rate of $1000 for every five years of service(which would equal $4000/month if you work another 20yrs). In the end, you wont be any worse off for sure. In addition, your union representation would drastically improve. The business agents would only be servicing the UPS facilities, which drastically decreases their workload from the present situation. Thus, they have more time to focus on your problems, and resolve your issues, and improve your life.
UPS doesn’t have a choice in this matter. Once a union is the legally recognized bargaining agent, they have the legal obligation to negotiate with the employer on behalf of its members, and the employer is required to come to the table and negotiate in good faith. Should UPS choose to attempt to strong arm the newly formed APWA, then the union can use its collective power to threaten a strike. If APWA is representing Parcel and Freight, coupled with the strong likelihood that the IPA would form a strong relationship with us, then our strike threat definitely has some bite behind it. Bottom line is that UPS will be legally required to negotiate with the APWA.
APWA IS THE BETTER CHOICE
Nospin
Teamster251
PSST Drvr Local 251 PRORI
They (APWA) are also dreaming if they think they can even get one penny of the IBT pension funds.
On what grounds are they going to sue for? LOL
On what grounds are they going to sue for? LOL
wkmac, I see what your saying and point taken. i am still curiously concerned to a couple things here though. I hope i can make this understandable, so bear with me.
At this point in time, everything is hypothetical there is nothing concrete yet one way or the other. Going along the lines of your last post and the IBT was kicked out and the APWA was in. That would mean that the cashcow IBT gets now towards pensions would essentially be gone. It's no secret that UPS is basicly the only major contributor to the pension. If that was to happen, then most likely sooner rather then later the IBT pension would dry up.
I've heard here that the APWA would have plans to go to the courts to get access to the remainder of the UPS portion of the pensions from the IBT. looking at a 3 to 5 yr window in the court system, with no guarantee.
Now saying that the switch happens, IBT is voted out and APWA is voted in, 10 yrs down the road I'm looking to retire. I know I'm going to get a pension for the 10 yrs with the APWA. BUT, I really and honestly at this point don't know if I am going to be able to collect a pension from the IBT for my 20 yrs served. At this point there is no guarantee APWA would have won in the court system the UPS portion from the IBT. In the mean time IBT's pension funds are dwindling rapidly, IF there even still in business by then.
I can't help but think that if UPS leaves the IBT, then the IBT will basicly go belly up. with that said, The pension I would be due from the IBT might not even be there to collect from.
I have to say that I am at a cross roads to say the least. I see some positive things being said from APWA, at this point in time it is just all speculation there is nothing on paper and nothing concrete. I guess it is the not knowing what the future brings that is the worst.
I am not ignorant to the fact of the directions IBT is headed. I have heavy feelings towards the person who came up with the idea of the multi-employer pension funds. This very program is what has gotten us to this point of possibly in the near future having to make some very hard decisions of the direction we as a union need to take.
I see a division amongst the membership on this matter happening. I
would hope it would not get to the point that it tears the membership apart.The possibility is there for it to happen. This whole matter could get very ugly before it gets better. I feel something does have to be done, but I don't think the answer is clear yet. I don't think it is as easy as calling a 1-900 number and spending $1.99 per minute to get a look in a crystal ball will answer my questions either.
I guess in a nutshell, there is still a lot of unanswered questions that need concrete answers, to my thinking. It's a shame we even have to be thinking about this at all. It shouldn't have come to this point. But it has and hopefully one way or the other it will work out.
At this point in time, everything is hypothetical there is nothing concrete yet one way or the other. Going along the lines of your last post and the IBT was kicked out and the APWA was in. That would mean that the cashcow IBT gets now towards pensions would essentially be gone. It's no secret that UPS is basicly the only major contributor to the pension. If that was to happen, then most likely sooner rather then later the IBT pension would dry up.
I've heard here that the APWA would have plans to go to the courts to get access to the remainder of the UPS portion of the pensions from the IBT. looking at a 3 to 5 yr window in the court system, with no guarantee.
Now saying that the switch happens, IBT is voted out and APWA is voted in, 10 yrs down the road I'm looking to retire. I know I'm going to get a pension for the 10 yrs with the APWA. BUT, I really and honestly at this point don't know if I am going to be able to collect a pension from the IBT for my 20 yrs served. At this point there is no guarantee APWA would have won in the court system the UPS portion from the IBT. In the mean time IBT's pension funds are dwindling rapidly, IF there even still in business by then.
I can't help but think that if UPS leaves the IBT, then the IBT will basicly go belly up. with that said, The pension I would be due from the IBT might not even be there to collect from.
I have to say that I am at a cross roads to say the least. I see some positive things being said from APWA, at this point in time it is just all speculation there is nothing on paper and nothing concrete. I guess it is the not knowing what the future brings that is the worst.
I am not ignorant to the fact of the directions IBT is headed. I have heavy feelings towards the person who came up with the idea of the multi-employer pension funds. This very program is what has gotten us to this point of possibly in the near future having to make some very hard decisions of the direction we as a union need to take.
I see a division amongst the membership on this matter happening. I
would hope it would not get to the point that it tears the membership apart.The possibility is there for it to happen. This whole matter could get very ugly before it gets better. I feel something does have to be done, but I don't think the answer is clear yet. I don't think it is as easy as calling a 1-900 number and spending $1.99 per minute to get a look in a crystal ball will answer my questions either.
I guess in a nutshell, there is still a lot of unanswered questions that need concrete answers, to my thinking. It's a shame we even have to be thinking about this at all. It shouldn't have come to this point. But it has and hopefully one way or the other it will work out.
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