"To all UPS Employees concerned about their pensions & Benefits" !!!!!!
- Thread starter wildgoose
- Start date
I am a 34 year employee of UPS and I have been to APWA meetings, and am not impressed when it comes to my retirement! In my opinion we have to try and change what we have first and the only way to do that is under new direction with Tom L and getting rid of Jimmy Hoffa and all his cronies including all of the bums on the Pension Boards!
nospinzone
Well-Known Member
Mikey,, I respectfully disagree with your position and here's why. Central States/Teamsters have already ruined the investments of UPSers who are nearing retirement such as yourself. Neither APWA nor the Teamsters can pull money out of a magic hat to recoup the money lost at the hands of the IBT. Even Van and Danny will tell you that the APWA cannot offer improved pension benefits to those preparing to retire,,,including Van and Danny. They can offer more affordable and better health insurance. But it makes no sense for the younger guys to continue throwing their money into a miserably failing pension plan such as CS/IBT where 60% of our contributions go to someone else. Its a money pit! Despite improved returns on their investments, Central States still ran a deficit this past year. By withdrawing and establishing a UPS-only, APWA managed pension fund, the funds and benefits of younger participants will be secured, which will effectively stop the raping that Central States/IBT has been giving to us over the past decade.
Nospinzone, even Van and Danny cant guarantee I will get the money that I have worked for the last 34 years. I would be decided in court and I would rather have the chance for a new administration under Tom L to have the chance to change things for the better than to leave it up to some judge or legislator like in the Pension Reform Bill and the Red Zone amendment! Sorry friend but the APWA is not the right choice for people that have over 20 years with UPS! And if you have the integrity to admit it you know that I am right! Vote in the IBT election and vote for Tom L. At least give it the chance to be fixed!!!!!!!!!!!!!
With corruption in the teamster hierarchy do you really think Leedham has a chance? You know even if he would actualy have the votes to win noone will ever know it. The hoffa people will make it a big win for jimmy and his boys. Is this the kind of union everyone wants? I really don't think so if people actually would admit it.
Mittam, with concerned Teamsers like ourselves I really do think Tom L has a chance to make a really big change. He cant do it if he doesnt get elected, and that means that every Teamster has to vote! In the last election out of 1.4 million Teamster members only 25% voted. If we want to make a difference then we all have to work to make this Union ours again.The International Brotherhood of Teamsters is our Union, the members that pay Union dues, and we cannot give up trying to make a change! I sat around for years and complained about the corruption and loss of benefits and I finally decided to try and make a change. I really beleive in the Leedham Campaign through first hand knowledge and I beleive that we can get this Union back once and for all!
Let me put it in a simple statement , so that even you can understand it. Under the Teamster plan, because they give away 60% of UPS pension money, you have to work more years and receive less. You worked hard all these years, you earned your pension money, it should be yours whenever you plan plan to retire at the age that you choose. The APWA plan can give you morey retirement money, simply based on the fact that "all" UPS pension will go to UPS people and not diverted to other companies. As far as pro-rating your pension, if the APWA wins the election, and throws the Teamsters out, The pension money will be that the Teamsters now control, will be divided up percentage-wise amongst the participants and the APWA will get the share depending on the number of employees. Obviously the Teamsters will not give this money away willingly, because they are rewarding themselves with your money. There will be a court case and under labor laws, it must be settled in less than 2 years. In summation, we are better off, because whatever money that is handed over to The APWA, is all going to go to UPO people, and all future contributions to our pension fund will go directly to us.
Not only is your pension in trouble, but your medical benefits as well. Do you want to pay up to $1,040 per month just to cover your insurance. What will be left for your retirement? The Teamsters have a problem because they are giving away our money and mismanaging it as well. It doesn't matter who is president of the Teamsters for this reason. We have to keep all the pension money that UPS contributes to our pension fund. That is the only way that we will have a secure retirement fund. The APWA is going to do just that.
This is exactly why we need to get out of the Teamsters and form another union for UPS people only (APWA). All the pension money would go only for UPS people and not support other companies who contribute very little or nothing at all. The UPS pilots (IPA) did it. They got out of the union and started a new union for themselves. Look at them now. They just received a 26% increase in salary as well as an increase in their pension. Ask yourselves this question: Are the Teamsters really serving our best interests or merely lining their own pockets with your money? It's time for a change!!
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Oh Bill, you're my hero! I'm so blessed to have you here to save me from my stupidity with your "simple statement". You would also do well to sit down with Van Skillman and explain to him as well concerning your "simple statement" that solves all problems.
About a year ago when the APWA started gaining some ground especially here on Browncafe I did just that and contacted Van concerning a number of claims being made on behalf of APWA. Numerous emails between myself and Van went back and forth and at least 2 members here, My2Cents and OK2BC who was on record at the time opposing the idea that APWA could do what they claimed both have copies of mine and Van's responses. For the record I found Van very open and very honest, even on dealing with issues that did present a problem and one of those issues had to do with UPSers who already had time in under the IBT plans. Van himself has over 25 years so he's not without risk here either. He told me that the ideas being floated here last year concerning prior service being bought out or somehow redeemed were not APWA initiated or authorized and that people were pulling some wild schemes out of the air to try and win folks over which is patently wrong and Van was upset at that. I really respected Van for his complete upright honesty and at no time did I find him trying to sugar coat anything. Unlike our own current union IMO.
As for your whim and hope of a judical settlement well let me throw out a couple of things. First off, my wife is a para-legal and not an expert in fudciary law herself but in the firm she works there are a couple of lawyers who do know a little bit about it so I had one of them read a few of the posts here floating this idea of a law suit just to get his feedback. He told me that 2 years till settlement is a dreamworld and to make that kind of statement on it's face was utter stupidity. It can take 2 years just to get a simple motions hearing much less settle a case and even if you get a low court decision, with this much money on the line it will get drug through the appelate process which in and of itself could take several years.
Secondly, as for recapturing the funds already paid in? Depends on what and how the fudciary agreement was drawn and signed in the first place. If your theory is that the CS plan for example is like some big umbrella 401k or IRA plan that has some mechanism of mobility then you better think again. Reality will suggest otherwise I'm sure. Just because you paid in doesn't entitle you to any claim to transfer those funds completely to another party if you decide to go elsewhere. So if that's your gameplan then you're dealing with legal theory and the law books are loaded with loser cases of legal theory epsecially in the civil realm. Are you asking us to go out on a limb based on legal theory? Sounds like it to me!
The other option is to prove gross mismanagement and violation of the fudciary contract so first you'd have to prove that CS was wrongfully and willfully gross in it's management duties but then you'd also have to prove the same of the IBT (that part would be a piece of cake!
) and then able to convince a law court judge to set aside any and all agreements and then to rule all funds to be paid back to the damaged parties in this case hopefully us UPSers and then greenlight the movement of such funds from one fudicary agent to the other. Depending on how the agreement was originally drawn up and the language used, the money could also revert back to UPS and they given the responsibility to go forward with it. Boy, now would that be interesting to say the least! I'm not convinced you also would not have to serve UPS as a defendant with IBT and CS in this case as they in recent for sure acted as a trustee to CS for example and you may even have to serve the other truckline reps. as well. Bill,
This whole process is not so iron tight as you and some others try to sell it to be and since Nov. 04' several attempts at getting information concerning Central States for example have been in court and still continue there. I greatly applaud those efforts and encourage all here to support morally and financially those efforts where they can. I also think this is one course of action for APWA to look at and consider but it has many holes and the courts are a minefield of holes to say the least.
If I were you I'd temper that assuredness with some reality before you go making claims that are at best a legal longshot and stand a real chance of never happening to begin with.
JM "Stupid" O
Bill, I dont know how long you have been an employee of UPS or member of the Teamsters but I am very informed about pension and medical benefits! It will make a difference who is President of the IBT! Jimmy Hoffa and his colleagues do whatever they want and whenever they want to do it. Tom L will make a difference, he has the same concerns as we do about our future. The APWA will solve nothing by splitting this Union! They only tell me that I will have to work longer to get their measly pension and that they might be able to get the Central States funds with a law suit which will take a very long time to get into court! I will not vote for the APWA and a lot of people that have more than 20 years wont either! Sorry but the APWA is to little too late!!!!
I don't know how long you have until the IBT sends your pension into the crapper and tells you that you have to work until you are 65 or longer.Tell me what we the employees at UPSfrieght are going to get by becoming a member of the IBT.The teamsters say one company one union.I say one company one contract.I say to the IBT don't make empty promieses.Why don't you ask why the IBT doesn't set up a seperate UPS only pension?Go ask yourlocal why they are not going after UPS frieght.If the guys on the brown side care they would be asking these questions instead of tearing apart the APWA who has answered all questions.Show how much you care about your fellow employees after all we are all UPS.ACtions speak louder then words go ask the questions see if you get answers.I for one will not be joining the IBT good luck!
Hey guys you pay the IBT to take care of you but did you vote how much of a pay increase they could have ? Did you vote on how many pensions they can have or a better insurance plan than us ? We pay them so in esence they work for us but the reality is that they do as they please ! They succeded in dividing us -they refuse to tell us where the money goes ! You have no say so under their rules ! As a matter of fact they change the rules without your knowledge at any given time ! Boy i sure would love to own a business that i could do as i please - sorta like a socialist type government . Keeping the Ibt in is only asking for more problems down the road and reductions in our benifits. We need a new governing body overseeing the benifits that we so deserve and were told we would have. Its time to take back the control of our future and have a say so ! There`s a big difference between loyalty and productivity !
Any 122, I would guess by your answer(I will not be joining the IBT that you are not a Union member). I have been an IBT Brother for 34 years and I can tell you son that they have helped a lot more ways than they have hurt! There is no sense in telling a non-union member(Scab) to vote for a change! If you beleive that the APWA will do any better for you then vote for them because you sure as hell cant vote for the President of the IBT! This is my last post on this website, I didnt know that it was APWA controlled. I have been at UPS for 34 years and I beleive we can change the IBT with a vote for Tom L. Whatever you beleive just vote if you are a teamsters member!!!!!!!!!!!
30andout
Well-Known Member
Hey Mikey, I also have been a teamster for 34 years and they won't even help me collect the pension I should have coming to me, they suck.
This letter doesn't mention that the UPS pilots were members of the Teamsters at one time, but they wised up and now are receiving a better pension, more wages and benefits. They decided to act and form their own union (IPA). Who says that we can't drop out of the Teamsters and go in a better direction. The pilots did it, so can we.UPS employees you must read this document !!!!!!!!!!!! Let me know if thumnail is readable otherwise i have to wait till administrator sends me a bigger version to upload. Very hard to upload on webpage. wildgoose.
{edited by moderator to add resized files}
brett636
Well-Known Member
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