Truck barrels into protesters

[rickyb]

What difference does it make? I've made my position clear on government debt. I've made my position clear on the lockdowns and killing the economy. I don't have to chime in about every example of government waste. I'm against all of it.

because too many conservatives are silent about major corporate welfare, and rag on the poor collecting it too much.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

you dont need capitalism to sustain welfare, but you do need some kind of system.

Enlighten me. You won't find a better system than capitalism until free energy and perfect control over matter have been invented. Then we'll have a system of complete volunteerism where people decide their own level of participation in society. Even when everyone's wants and needs are provided for without the slightest of effort, people will still demand justice.

 

[rickyb]

Enlighten me. You won't find a better system than capitalism until free energy and perfect control over matter have been invented. Then we'll have a system of complete volunteerism where people decide their own level of participation in society. Even when everyone's wants and needs are provided for without the slightest of effort, people will still demand justice.

cooperatives are part of the solution.

public banking like bank of north dakota.

i dont think the quest for justice will ever end, but we can do better than now.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

because too many conservatives are silent about major corporate welfare, and rag on the poor collecting it too much.

I only rag on hypocrites. I'm not entirely against welfare. The welfare recipients who are grateful for what they are getting, and use the opportunity to get their life on track don't bother me in the least. If Abney were on here whining about how much UPS needs a bailout, and how he demands justice for corporate executives, I'd be ragging on him just as much.

 

[rickyb]

I only rag on hypocrites. I'm not entirely against welfare. The welfare recipients who are grateful for what they are getting, and use the opportunity to get their life on track don't bother me in the least. If Abney were on here whining about how much UPS needs a bailout, and how he demands justice for corporate executives, I'd be ragging on him just as much.

well anywho they just stole 4 to 10 trillion.

i think a big part of the anti welfare thing is propaganda. for reagan it was racism. plus its an excuse to have more money for govt to give to rich.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

cooperatives are part of the solution.

public banking like bank of north dakota.

i dont think the quest for justice will ever end, but we can do better than now.

Cooperatives are just another way to structure corporations, which exist within capitalistic systems. I'm not against cooperatives, but they aren't a replacement for the entire capitalistic system.

 

[rickyb]

Cooperatives are just another way to structure corporations, which exist within capitalistic systems. I'm not against cooperatives, but they aren't a replacement for the entire capitalistic system.

capitalism centralizes too much power. im against the idea of 1 share 1 vote as well. its not democratic enough. i dont think capitalism and political democracy are compatible either.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

well anywho they just stole 4 to 10 trillion.

i think a big part of the anti welfare thing is propaganda. for reagan it was racism. plus its an excuse to have more money for govt to give to rich.

Right, but the politicians promise free stuff to people to get their votes, so they can remain in the pockets of corporations. In a very literal sense, poor people on welfare are an indirect beneficiary of corporate welfare. I agree these are all problems that need to be addressed, but "protests" that are just an excuse to smash stuff are not the way to fix anything. Communism sure ain't gonna fix it.

 

[rickyb]

Right, but the politicians promise free stuff to people to get their votes, so they can remain in the pockets of corporations. In a very literal sense, poor people on welfare are an indirect beneficiary of corporate welfare. I agree these are all problems that need to be addressed, but "protests" that are just an excuse to smash stuff are not the way to fix anything. Communism sure ain't gonna fix it.

the problem i think is power. the current system centralizes too much of it in govt and at work.

i dont think free stuff like college, or day care is necessarily a bad thing. it makes you more competitive by lowering cost of living.

i agree the violence is premature.

what protests do is scare the state into action. thats what the state and MSM is always doing to us.

steve keen i think is a capitalist but im think he wants serious reform to the system for it to work:

 

[zubenelgenubi]

the problem i think is power. the current system centralizes too much of it in govt and at work.

i dont think free stuff like college, or day care is necessarily a bad thing. it makes you more competitive by lowering cost of living.

i agree the violence is premature.

what protests do is scare the state into action. thats what the state and MSM is always doing to us.

steve keen i think is a capitalist but im think he wants serious reform to the system for it to work:

These protests are just about dividing people to make us easier to control. Power is a problem, always has been, but it's a people problem. To fix it, we need to encourage taking personal responsibility. Each of us needs to focus on becoming better as individuals so that we are more likely to get the right people into positions of authority. You can't force that as a top down initiative, but it can be encouraged on the individual level.

There is no such thing as "free stuff". When you say free stuff, you mean stuff other people pay for that you get to enjoy. Until you can understand that, you can't grow as a person.

 

[rickyb]

These protests are just about dividing people to make us easier to control. Power is a problem, always has been, but it's a people problem. To fix it, we need to encourage taking personal responsibility. Each of us needs to focus on becoming better as individuals so that we are more likely to get the right people into positions of authority. You can't force that as a top down initiative, but it can be encouraged on the individual level.

There is no such thing as "free stuff". When you say free stuff, you mean stuff other people pay for that you get to enjoy. Until you can understand that, you can't grow as a person.

i think the protests are blowback against the system in general, not just racism or police violence.

i think democracy and solidarity is the answer to power. and dont have systems which centralize so much power in the first place.

i was using your language. whatever you want to call it. you know the federal govt prints money to fund things. it doesnt necessarily need taxes.

most people in positions of authority are mediocre or venal. its about making them afraid. thats what the civil rights did. worker struggles. etc

one of the things i thought about responsibility is that capitalism keeps us largely like children in the sense that we are told what to do all the time on the job. a few people make all the decisions, and we've abdicated our responsibility. i dont even think the people in power in govt, or economically are being responsible. they have no long term plan.

 

[sailfish]

i think we had air horns back in the early 90's.my memory is bad but they took them out by the late 90's I believe. can you imagine air horns blasting allover the yard for every back?

They still have an electronic horn too...

 

[...]

constitution.

According to the constitution, they can peaceably assemble.

Blocking a major thoroughfare is not peaceably assembling. Nor is swarming someone with the audacity to use the freeway for its INTENDED PURPOSE.

 

[MECH-lift]

Why isn’t anyone protesting to stop imported goods from China reaching US soil ?

 

[Brownslave688]

yea i think people's rationality is out the window with covid. there was a nurses protest in front of the white house and they were distancing themselves from each other. thats what these protestors should be doing in part. nice to see people are taking action.

You probably got a better chance of your mom coming downstairs and slapping some sense into you than you do of dying of covid.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

i think the protests are blowback against the system in general, not just racism or police violence.

i think democracy and solidarity is the answer to power. and dont have systems which centralize so much power in the first place.

i was using your language. whatever you want to call it. you know the federal govt prints money to fund things. it doesnt necessarily need taxes.

most people in positions of authority are mediocre or venal. its about making them afraid. thats what the civil rights did. worker struggles. etc

one of the things i thought about responsibility is that capitalism keeps us largely like children in the sense that we are told what to do all the time on the job. a few people make all the decisions, and we've abdicated our responsibility. i dont even think the people in power in govt, or economically are being responsible. they have no long term plan.

The government can't just print more money without consequences. Printing more money is just a way to indirectly tax people. The more money they print, the lower the value of the money people have. It's theft of buying power.

I call it free stuff ironically because that's what you think it is. It's not free, it's a gift paid for by someone else. People receiving that gift who rail against the system they benefit from either aren't very bright or are hypocrites.

Capitalism is an economic system, it doesn't control our personal decisions, or rob us of responsibility. It makes things easier for people to earn a living, and people may choose to compromise what they value in order to survive. Everyone needs to learn to accept those compromises, or make harder decisions.

I can't think of any system that doesn't concentrate power, or that can't be manipulated by the power hungry. But capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty, and gives people more options than any other system I know of. I am still interested in hearing about a better system.

 

[Brownslave688]

I’m honestly seeing a lot of videos of people getting ran over today.


People are sick of this . Blocking the interstate is a crime. False imprisonment is a crime.
It’s a
Revenue gold mine. Arrest every last one of. If they can’t pay the fine put their asses to work cleaning up the damage they caused.

 

[MECH-lift]

Everyone that gets caught vandalizing should be sentenced 10 years preload.

 

[Whither]

According to the constitution, they can peaceably assemble.

Blocking a major thoroughfare is not peaceably assembling. Nor is swarming someone with the audacity to use the freeway for its INTENDED PURPOSE.

The expressed purpose of freeways was national defense (rapid military mobilization should the Cold War heat up). The unexpressed purpose was to extend and expedite the flow of commerce, which just so happened to be a MAJOR form of welfare exploited by freight companies like the very one we work for.

 

[brownmonster]

Why isn’t anyone protesting to stop imported goods from China reaching US soil ?

Because Americans appreciate cheap goods.