Union - is it Socialism?

[rickyb]

No, but it's an economic sustem that allows for the most freedom.

workers renting themselves and giving up their power is not freedom.

being constantly lied to in papers, tv, internet, movies, is not freedom.

 

[OrionsBitch]

workers renting themselves and giving up their power is not freedom.

being constantly lied to in papers, tv, internet, movies, is not freedom.

So being able to choose where you work, what you do, where you study, what you study, the freedom to start a business, etc. Is worse than socialism?

Where your wages are predetermined regardless of your effort and skill levels and if you do happen to make more you most likely pay much more in taxes to account for people who are lazy. Yeah that sounds like freedom....socialism is not freedom....it's indentured servitude to your government and your neighbor.

 

[JL 0513]

They are making what people want. They didn't say "People are buying a lot of cars so lets stop making them and make only trucks and SUV's instead". The market is showing them what people want and their job is to fill that need and make money while doing it.

rickyb doesn't believe consumers should make their own choices. The fact that the majority are now flocking to SUV's (crossovers actually) and trucks is damaging to the planet which is why we should all just be shuttled around in public transportation.

Ford loses money on most of the cars they sell. Ultimately, a business has to profit to stay in business. Hard to compete against Japanese cars.

 

[rickyb]

So being able to choose where you work, what you do, where you study, what you study, the freedom to start a business, etc. Is worse than socialism?

Where your wages are predetermined regardless of your effort and skill levels and if you do happen to make more you most likely pay much more in taxes to account for people who are lazy. Yeah that sounds like freedom....socialism is not freedom....it's indentured servitude to your government and your neighbor.

if your able to choose your dictator is that being free?

is the media constantly lying to us being free?

if we are so bad at choosing politicians, how do you know we made the right economic decisions?

 

[JL 0513]

but my point is competition is decreasing.

Competition is increasing in the auto industry.

 

[JL 0513]

people cant afford things in capitalism too. its not unique to one system

my solution is worker controlled jobs. this will decentralize power in the economy and ownership.

i agree with you on the taxes and wars part.

This idea of worker controlled jobs that you seem to base your religion on is perplexing. You believe that everyone can be at the "top" with no chain of authority and ownership. How do you think the military would function with no rank and chain of command?

How does every worker at a company double as the owner? Who makes all the business decisions? I guess you would say everything comes down to a vote. What about the person who started the business in the first place? Were do they fit in?

 

[JL 0513]

rickyb, you know nothing of the auto industry if you think competition in decreasing. Laugh all you want.

 

[rickyb]

This idea of worker controlled jobs that you seem to base your religion on is perplexing. You believe that everyone can be at the "top" with no chain of authority and ownership. How do you think the military would function with no rank and chain of command?

How does every worker at a company double as the owner? Who makes all the business decisions? I guess you would say everything comes down to a vote. What about the person who started the business in the first place? Were do they fit in?

you should be perplexed why you dont know this already. goes back to what i was saying about media constantly lying to us. were not free.

FYI its called worker cooperatives.

 

[OrionsBitch]

rickyb doesn't believe consumers should make their own choices. The fact that the majority are now flocking to SUV's (crossovers actually) and trucks is damaging to the planet which is why we should all just be shuttled around in public transportation.

Ford loses money on most of the cars they sell. Ultimately, a business has to profit to stay in business. Hard to compete against Japanese cars.

Here is what socialists never understand. If you create big go we msntrthat controls everything who do you think is going to be in charge? It's going to be the same politicians, the same rich people, the same mega corporation CEO's. Except now they have control over everything and can limit citizens on ways which capitalism never could. They see the world through rose colored glasses and think there are all these shinning white knights everywhere.

People are greedy evil etc regardless of the system. It's best to have a system that limits their reach of power. That's what our founding fathers recognized and planned for.

The world isn't just some economical game where we have to keep the numbers balanced at all costs. In socialism you're just a number taking your share until you die. In capitalism you at least get a change at deciding if you get more or less and how you use it.

How many socialist charities are there? Not many. How many charities have come from the free market? How many billionaire give a ton of money away? How much do you give rickyb?

 

[OrionsBitch]

you should be perplexed why you dont know this already. goes back to what i was saying about media constantly lying to us. were not free.

FYI its called worker cooperatives.

Why don't you go take a look at news networks in both current and historical socialist societies.

 

[rickyb]

Why don't you go take a look at news networks in both current and historical socialist societies.

you keep making comparisons to "socialism". its like asking which is worse democrats or republicans. they both suck.

 

[rickyb]

Here is what socialists never understand. If you create big go we msntrthat controls everything who do you think is going to be in charge? It's going to be the same politicians, the same rich people, the same mega corporation CEO's. Except now they have control over everything and can limit citizens on ways which capitalism never could. They see the world through rose colored glasses and think there are all these shinning white knights everywhere.

People are greedy evil etc regardless of the system. It's best to have a system that limits their reach of power. That's what our founding fathers recognized and planned for.

The world isn't just some economical game where we have to keep the numbers balanced at all costs. In socialism you're just a number taking your share until you die. In capitalism you at least get a change at deciding if you get more or less and how you use it.

How many socialist charities are there? Not many. How many charities have come from the free market? How many billionaire give a ton of money away? How much do you give rickyb?

you want "a system that limits their reach of power" but you propose capitalism LOL????

people arent just "greedy and evil"

workers are reduced to numbers in capitalism as well. its all over this board.

billionaires giving money away is PR and could also be very dangerous.

 

[bbsam]

rickyb doesn't believe consumers should make their own choices. The fact that the majority are now flocking to SUV's (crossovers actually) and trucks is damaging to the planet which is why we should all just be shuttled around in public transportation.

Ford loses money on most of the cars they sell. Ultimately, a business has to profit to stay in business. Hard to compete against Japanese cars.

Lol. No.

It is not hard for the Ford friend-series trucks to compete against Japan.

 

[OrionsBitch]

Lol. No.

It is not hard for the Ford friend-series trucks to compete against Japan.

He wasn't talking about the trucks....

 

[1989]

schools have been defunded. they are falling apart. theres high student debt which is a form of social control. and schools arent about getting jobs, they are about teaching people how to think, but thats increasingly being lost.

We have free colleges. Stop with the lies.

 

[bbsam]

He wasn't talking about the trucks....

What difference does it make to Ford whether they make money on a truck or a car?

On a side note, Ford is challenged because for so long they built crappy automobiles. Their quality is far better now but old opinions die hard.

 

[OrionsBitch]

What difference does it make to Ford whether they make money on a truck or a car?

On a side note, Ford is challenged because for so long they built crappy automobiles. Their quality is far better now but old opinions die hard.

Lol it doesn't matter! His point was foreign brands are making more and better cars....so it doesn't make sense to focus and use up your production resources to produce cars in a highly competitive market when they can focus on what sells best for them (trucks and suvs)....

 

[rickyb]

Lol it doesn't matter! His point was foreign brands are making more and better cars....so it doesn't make sense to focus and use up your production resources to produce cars in a highly competitive market when they can focus on what sells best for them (trucks and suvs)....

no it wasnt. i was talking about lack of competition.

 

[JL 0513]

Lol. No.

It is not hard for the Ford friend-series trucks to compete against Japan.

We're talking about Ford's cars and their decision to discontinue all of them (except the Mustang). The friend-series is what keeps Ford afloat.

Car companies may choose to lose money on a model or two but not all of the passenger cars in your lineup even if they end up in the black from their trucks.

 

[JL 0513]

Lol it doesn't matter! His point was foreign brands are making more and better cars....so it doesn't make sense to focus and use up your production resources to produce cars in a highly competitive market when they can focus on what sells best for them (trucks and suvs)....

Sedans are holding onto a rapidly decreasing market and most people just go for the what they know is the proven best. Camry, Accord, Altima, Sonata, in the mid-size class and Corolla, Civic, Elantra, etc. in the compact class.

I would have liked for Ford to pull out all the stops and build world class sedans, but they decided it wasn't worth it.