Unjust Termination

[tieguy]

Trick-what a bitter man you seem to be. Anything about your job make you feel rewarded and happy. I assume you run feeders at night. If so I bet your family is happy.

Ouch. Don't worry though I'm going to drive down to florida and teach trick how to parallel park. Once I do he might be able to bid on a day job.

 

[ups_vette]

Help me understand this situation.

1. jeremy recieved a speeding ticket.

2. jeremy DID NOT pay the fine for his speeding ticket.

3. Since jeremy DID NOT pay his fine, his driving license was SUSPENDED. He admited this fact in his post

4. jeremy continued to drive with a SUSPENDED LICENSE, which he also admitted.

5. jeremy contends he wasen't CONVICTED of driving with a suspended license, although he admits he actually did drive with a suspended license.

6. Is jeremy contesting the fact his license was suspended and therefore not guilty of driving with a suspended license?


Jeremy is complaining he was discharged because he was honest and admited he drove with a suspended license. Well, if Jeremy were truly honest he would have paid the speeding ticket and not have had his license suspended. If he were truly an honest person he WOULD NOT have continued to drive with a suspended license. Driving without a valid license is NOT a trait of an HONEST person, nor is it a trait that UPS wants in any of their employees.

 

[trickpony1]

If you believe the company that you work for is so immoral and so corrupt and you decide to ignore that point and continue working for them then what does that make you?

What does that make me?.......a whore, just like you, me and everyone else who works here.

 

[cachsux]

Help me understand this situation.

1. jeremy recieved a speeding ticket.

2. jeremy DID NOT pay the fine for his speeding ticket.

3. Since jeremy DID NOT pay his fine, his driving license was SUSPENDED. He admited this fact in his post

4. jeremy continued to drive with a SUSPENDED LICENSE, which he also admitted.

5. jeremy contends he wasen't CONVICTED of driving with a suspended license, although he admits he actually did drive with a suspended license.

6. Is jeremy contesting the fact his license was suspended and therefore not guilty of driving with a suspended license?


Jeremy is complaining he was discharged because he was honest and admited he drove with a suspended license. Well, if Jeremy were truly honest he would have paid the speeding ticket and not have had his license suspended. If he were truly an honest person he WOULD NOT have continued to drive with a suspended license. Driving without a valid license is NOT a trait of an HONEST person, nor is it a trait that UPS wants in any of their employees.

Jeremy is not a driver so technicaly he doesn`t need a drivers licence,suspended or not, to do his job. As far as honest traits in employees perhaps you could tell me about the quality traits possesed by the work release convicts that UPS bus in to my facility on a nightly basis. And no that is not an exageration,we see the Cook County Correctional bus in the lot waiting to return them to jail at the end of the shift.

 

[tieguy]

What does that make me?.......a whore, just like you, me and everyone else who works here.

No It makes you and only you corrupt and immoral.

I don't believe this company is corrupt or immoral and would not be working for them if I did.

People are generally corrupted for money. You claim to be working for this company that you label negatively for the money. that makes you immoral too.

 

[tieguy]

Jeremy is not a driver so technicaly he doesn`t need a drivers licence,suspended or not, to do his job. As far as honest traits in employees perhaps you could tell me about the quality traits possesed by the work release convicts that UPS bus in to my facility on a nightly basis. And no that is not an exageration,we see the Cook County Correctional bus in the lot waiting to return them to jail at the end of the shift.

Sounds like you're trying to defend his dishonesty because we may be hiring employees who may have been convicted of a crime? Or drunk driving ?

 

[trickpony1]

No It makes you and only you corrupt and immoral.

I don't believe this company is corrupt or immoral and would not be working for them if I did.

People are generally corrupted for money. You claim to be working for this company that you label negatively for the money. that makes you immoral too.

C'mon Tie.......
You work for this company because you believe that, at some point, you will be financially very well off. You could give a flip about corruptness, morals and spiritual enrichment. Just like everyone else.....you are here for the money and will do, sacrifice, ignore and justify every corrupt and immoral thing you had to do to remain here.
I suppose you think in 28+ years, I haven't seen, heard or personally been involved in some of the immoral things management has done.......some of which have been illustrated on this very forum by other posters?
If you deny that you have never done anything immoral or corrupt, what does that make you?

 

[tieguy]

C'mon Tie.......
You work for this company because you believe that, at some point, you will be financially very well off. You could give a flip about corruptness, morals and spiritual enrichment. Just like everyone else.....you are here for the money and will do, sacrifice, ignore and justify every corrupt and immoral thing you had to do to remain here.
I suppose you think in 28+ years, I haven't seen, heard or personally been involved in some of the immoral things management has done.......some of which have been illustrated on this very forum by other posters?
If you deny that you have never done anything immoral or corrupt, what does that make you?

if you talking about immoral or corrupt individuals fine. But if you think this organization is immoral or corrupt then I have to question why you would be working for them.

If its soley for money then you have to ask yourself if you have not also been corrupted.

 

[trickpony1]

"Individuals" make up and control the "organization".
Once again, I am here for the money....just like you.

"...if you have not also been corrupted". Being corrupted by others and being corrupt are two different things.

thanks for sidestepping the issues and my question of "if you deny that you have never done anything immoral or corrupt, what does that make you?".

At some point I will tire of playing word games and semantics with you and will quit responding to your posts like that other guy.

 

[tieguy]

"Individuals" make up and control the "organization".
Once again, I am here for the money....just like you.

"...if you have not also been corrupted". Being corrupted by others and being corrupt are two different things.

thanks for sidestepping the issues and my question of "if you deny that you have never done anything immoral or corrupt, what does that make you?".

At some point I will tire of playing word games and semantics with you and will quit responding to your posts like that other guy.

I'm sorry Trick I thought I answered your point directly.

If you work for an organization soley for the money and you think the organization is corrupt then that makes you corrupt also.
You could use the same analogy working for the mafia. "hey I only work for them for the money and pension"

As for the other guy he keeps saying he will quit responding but he is so obsessed with his "managment whipping boy for all his managers sins" that he can't stop posting.

 

[trickpony1]

I don't believe the company is corrupt. As a whole, it is a very good company that has some INDIVIDUALS (there's that word again) of influence/control that are corrupt as well as given free rein to do what they want to whom they want without accountability to anyone.
Would you know anyone like that? (this is a question).

 

[Barbie]

where is this written the standard policy manual.. Are they correct in stating that he should declare he was guilty? Can he take this to a higher abitration?

 

[tieguy]

I don't believe the company is corrupt. As a whole, it is a very good company that has some INDIVIDUALS (there's that word again) of influence/control that are corrupt as well as given free rein to do what they want to whom they want without accountability to anyone.
Would you know anyone like that? (this is a question).

OK. We basically agree then. One point I would disagree on is the accountability. The accountability is there the individual may have to screw up multiple times before its applied. You also have to consider the point that measures of accountabiity are kept confidential and you may not always hear what was done.

 

[tieguy]

where is this written the standard policy manual.. Are they correct in stating that he should declare he was guilty? Can he take this to a higher abitration?

Yes he has options.

Vette makes some very good points on this issue. And in reconsidering those points there is one thing that stands out and that is the union representing this person is not making much progress with the case. This from my experience is often a sign that there is more to this story then what the poster gave us. While I'm sure there are exceptions to this rule labor managers do not normally chase loosers that will cost us huge amounts in liabilities. A case of this type also has the involvement of the district HR manager. Again another divison manager who's job it is to protect the company from making costly decisions of this type. The company may be wrong in this case but chances are good they are sitting on a pretty good case.

 

[trickpony1]

........there is one thing that stands out and that is the union representing this person is not making much progress with the case.

Yeah.....and the company has never been known to drag their feet, stall and prolong a case when they (the company) thinks they (the company) might lose?
I've seen it too many times.
I've seen grievances stalled until right before they were to be heard then, suddenly, in the hallway outside the panel hearing room the Labor Manager runs up to the BA and announces the company will pay the grievance "....because it's the right thing to do", which, when translated, means "the company doesn't want to look like fools in front of the panel".

 

[cachsux]

Sounds like you're trying to defend his dishonesty because we may be hiring employees who may have been convicted of a crime? Or drunk driving ?

No,I am pointing out that he shouldn`t be terminated for not reporting something he has not yet been CONVICTED of,just as the mvdc paper states on it. Can he be turned down for a driving position? Absolutely,and maybe he`s not what we are looking for in a driver but to terminate him is incorrect.
My reply was to the statement of UPS only wanting honest employees. It was at one time almost a requirement at one time that an applicant at UPS be in colledge. Now we will hire anyone who hasn`t been convicted of a cardinal sin felony. And that is a direct comment from someone I know in the hiring dept. They even go so far as to ask of any gang involvement,not to turn down for employment,but so new hires can be placed in a wing with others members of the same gang and to prevent cross integration. So i think, anymore, honesty is one of the last things UPS worries about.

 

[browniehound]

Before I became I full-time driver I was an air-driver for a few months first. After I secured my full-time driver position I was on my way to the dentist in the afternoon of the day I had to sit down with HR and do paperwork for my new driving job. Needless to say I got hit with doing 43 in a 30. So later in the day when the HR rep told me he needed a copy of my driving record my jaw hit the floor (my thinking was I'm an air driver and I'm good enough to drive your vehicles now, why do I have to prove it again with another driving record??). This is the only driving infraction I've got in my 16 years of driving. Anyway, 2 days later I went to the DMV to get my driving record and to my relief the ticket wasn't on there yet and have been driving full-time ever since. Can I say i made it by the skin of my teeth?

 

[Channahon]

My reply was to the statement of UPS only wanting honest employees. It was at one time almost a requirement at one time that an applicant at UPS be in colledge. Now we will hire anyone who hasn`t been convicted of a cardinal sin felony. And that is a direct comment from someone I know in the hiring dept. They even go so far as to ask of any gang involvement,not to turn down for employment,but so new hires can be placed in a wing with others members of the same gang and to prevent cross integration. So i think, anymore, honesty is one of the last things UPS worries about
I'm not sure I understand the correlation between a gang memeber, who apparently have no felony conviction and passed a background check and honesty on UPS's part.
Can you expand a little?

 

[cachsux]

My reply was to the statement of UPS only wanting honest employees. It was at one time almost a requirement at one time that an applicant at UPS be in colledge. Now we will hire anyone who hasn`t been convicted of a cardinal sin felony. And that is a direct comment from someone I know in the hiring dept. They even go so far as to ask of any gang involvement,not to turn down for employment,but so new hires can be placed in a wing with others members of the same gang and to prevent cross integration. So i think, anymore, honesty is one of the last things UPS worries about
I'm not sure I understand the correlation between a gang memeber, who apparently have no felony conviction and passed a background check and honesty on UPS's part.
Can you expand a little?

Honesty on the part of the people it hires today versus what was the level of people they hired 20 yrs ago. I don`t know what conviction these gang members may hve but I do know that we have the cops in here on a nightly basis to the extent that have a station just outside our gates now. Maybe what I`m tryimg to say is the bar for new hires is considerably lower than what it used to be to point that convicts and gang members are now considered acceptable employees.

 

[Channahon]

Cachsux,
Thanks for clarifying that for me. I know when that monster of a building was being built, there was always concern of the employee pool.
The thought back then was Morraine Valley Community College would draw employees.
I've had the chance over the years to attend meetings in the facilty and heard some of the hiring issues. At least law enforcement is visible in the facility, hopefully that gives some peace of mind to some employees.