UPS Uprising at Local 952!

[LagunaBrown]

On an LM-2, where it says "NET ASSETS" and P.K. lists 952 as having -$17000.
What does that mean Laguna?

It means your Reform slate with that TDU reject D does not know anything about book keeping and only reads line 35. of the LM-2. If I am right and the local is not bankrupt and prove you wrong would it change your mind? Or are you just gonna keep changing topics?

 

[realbrown1]

It means your Reform slate with that TDU reject D does not know anything about book keeping and only reads line 35. of the LM-2. If I am right and the local is not bankrupt and prove you wrong would it change your mind? Or are you just gonna keep changing topics?

Your 100% right. Local 952 is not bankrupt. I have never said it was bankrupt. I said it is heading that way very quickly. Let me show you some figures from local 952's own LM-2 reports from 2009 and 2012.

2009 Net Assets Start of year:$768,159.00 End of year: $570,370.00

2012 Net Assests Start of year: $165,731.00 End of year: $-17,643.00

Any questions?

 

[LagunaBrown]

Local 952's lm-2 reports for the last 10 years says it all. Overspending us into bankruptcy.
Laguna, keep listening to Kelly, I have no faith in you ever seeing reality when it comes to Kelly.

Go look at your reform flyers in the trash!!! Lol.... You reform guys are funny.

 

[LagunaBrown]

Your 100% right. Local 952 is not bankrupt. I have never said it was bankrupt. I said it is heading that way very quickly. Let me show you some figures from local 952's own LM-2 reports from 2009 and 2012.

2009 Net Assets Start of year:$768,159.00 End of year: $570,370.00

2012 Net Assests Start of year: $165,731.00 End of year: $-17,643.00

Any questions?

nice try but you already passed out the flyers saying the local is bankrupt.... Your welcome for teaching you about reading LM-2's

 

[realbrown1]

nice try but you already passed out the flyers saying the local is bankrupt.... Your welcome for teaching you about reading LM-2's

When did you teach me to read LM-2's?

You have been arguing against my numbers for days now.
Like I said before, I have zero faith that you will ever see the truth about 952's finances, you are too invested in P.K. You will believe him over any proof (like an LM-2 report) we can present.

 

[The Other Side]

Go look at your reform flyers in the trash!!! Lol.... You reform guys are funny.

So, because you see some flyers in the trash, that gives you the impression the message failed and its funny? Let me ask you T*, whats funny about a local bleeding money every year since 2008?

in 2008 your local was solvent , then a reduction in revenue in 2009, another loss of revenue in 2010, then another loss of revenue in 2011 and finally on December 31st 2012 your local went negative by several thousand dollars.

Whats "funny" about that?

What could be funny about growing deficits in a local who takes in union members money? The local is suppose to safeguard those monies and protect them with wise investments and expenditures.

You have a group of members "informing" other members of this situation of finances and you call that funny? How could you side with those who are creating those deficits and go against your brothers and sisters of the local who are doing what union members do within a local and take a stand against mis management?

Most members do not take the time to understand the financial obligations of a local, and most just assume everything is ok. But in your local, everything is NOT ok.

Is your problem that you dont want the members informed on the finances of the local? Would you prefer the members remain ignorant to the bottom line until the local folds?

How you do counter the "trending" of the locals financing since 2008. Are you disputing the locals revenue is decreasing? Its clear the bottom line has shrunk since 2008 and who else would you blame for this other than the current officers of the local?

For all practical purposes, this trend of losing revenue and a net loss in 2012 could ultimately lead to a bankruptcy, but only time will tell.

One can conclude that the leadership of 952 over the years has steered the ship in the wrong direction despite being "nice guys".

You cant hide from the truth bro. Numbers are numbers. You may not like the personalities handing out the information, but that does not change the message.

You havent taught any lessons on this board. Youve only attempted to muddy the waters.

Get a clue bro.

peace

TOS

 

[LagunaBrown]

When did you teach me to read LM-2's?

You have been arguing against my numbers for days now.
Like I said before, I have zero faith that you will ever see the truth about 952's finances, you are too invested in P.K. You will believe him over any proof (like an LM-2 report) we can present.

What can you not understand????? Your reform group came to my hub and the Anaheim yard passing out flyers saying our Local has been "bankrupted" (look on the flyers in the trash)! That is a total Lie and you admitted it when saying "Your 100% right. Local 952 is not bankrupt". Then your idol, (from 396) T.O.S says: "You have a group of members "informing" other members of this situation of finances and you call that funny?". HELL YES it is funny because your Daddy (TDU front man D) "the financial wizard" is talking about -17,000, bankruptcy and his plan to save the local when our local has millions in property. It's ALL right there on the LM-2 but he is to naive find it. Why don't you guys get a clue! Or better yet get a ride to the general membership meeting and start acting like you really care.

In fact you were handing out the same flyers out tonight!....... How is that not hypocritical?


​

 

[The Other Side]

What can you not understand????? Your reform group came to my hub and the Anaheim yard passing out flyers saying our Local has been "bankrupted" (look on the flyers in the trash)! That is a total Lie and you admitted it when saying "Your 100% right. Local 952 is not bankrupt". Then your idol, (from 396) T.O.S says: "You have a group of members "informing" other members of this situation of finances and you call that funny?". HELL YES it is funny because your Daddy (TDU front man D) "the financial wizard" is talking about -17,000, bankruptcy and his plan to save the local when our local has millions in property. It's ALL right there on the LM-2 but he is to naive find it. Why don't you guys get a clue! Or better yet get a ride to the general membership meeting and start acting like you really care.

​

Your such a goof. Revenue and property are two totally different things. RB1 wasnt referring to property or assets, and its clear he was talking about revenue. Property wont pay the bills unless its sold, and once its liqudated, it no longer is an asset.

Liabilities bro. If you have to sell the farm to pay the bills you no longer have a farm.

Maybe you missed economics class, just like you missed voting on this contract?

See if your local can make the payroll by handing out pieces of buildings.

Ya goof.

Peace

TOS

 

[Hawfuh Sux]

Splitting the vote is not good. Patrick K is celebrating it. It's unfortunate the two slates couldn't combine. But the person coaching the pro-Hoffa disgruntled slate doesn't know a thing about union politics other than the lies they were fed by the local they supported for so long.

By the sources coming out, more people are pulling for the reformers in the same barn the pro-Hoffa people that were on 952s slate three years ago.

Its been revealed that one of the slates has a racist that went to HR and complained about the Hispanics speaking Spanish at the Anaheim Hub. LOL

He was so lucky he didn't get fired for being a racist. LOL

But how is it that a building like Anaheim that was so pro Kelly has two parties coming out of there.

There will always be people that don't like certain people, but for that "die-hard" Kelly-Hoffa barn to have people running on two different slates is hilarious.

I heard Kelly and his UPS BAs always bragged about how Anaheim was locked in, haha!

How many Anaheim hub members are on these two slates?

 

[Hawfuh Sux]

Local 952 is bankrupt!

 

[realbrown1]

What can you not understand????? Your reform group came to my hub and the Anaheim yard passing out flyers saying our Local has been "bankrupted" (look on the flyers in the trash)! That is a total Lie and you admitted it when saying "Your 100% right. Local 952 is not bankrupt". Then your idol, (from 396) T.O.S says: "You have a group of members "informing" other members of this situation of finances and you call that funny?". HELL YES it is funny because your Daddy (TDU front man D) "the financial wizard" is talking about -17,000, bankruptcy and his plan to save the local when our local has millions in property. It's ALL right there on the LM-2 but he is to naive find it. Why don't you guys get a clue! Or better yet get a ride to the general membership meeting and start acting like you really care.

In fact you were handing out the same flyers out tonight!....... How is that not hypocritical? ​

I said earlier that our local is not bankrupt. Alot of financial people would disagree with me. I happen to think that our local can get it finances under control and go back into finacial solvency. It has happened before to other corporations, non-profits and even people.
But that requires a plan. You must cut spending to a point where revenues are higher than your spending. P.K. doesn't have a plan. We are soon going off a finacial cliff that we cannot come back from.
Reform952 (which I am backing) has a plan to right our sinking ship. We pointed out 3 years ago that we were spending more that we were taking in and were attacked by the incumbants and their supporters.
You just keep backing P.K. If he pulls off a miracle and survives this election, you will soon after have some explaining to do LUCY. We will be in bankruptcy with P.K. steering the ship. He is heading right at the financial cliff and all you are doing is trying to stop us from stopping him.
You will be equally to blame. We will not forget or forgive. You have been given the information (right off of the LM-2 reports themselves) and you continue to attack us and back P.K.
Remember, if P.K. wins and soon after we go bankrupt, I wouldn't want to be you. You have seen how we have treated alot of the scabs right?

 

[LagunaBrown]

I said earlier that our local is not bankrupt. Alot of financial people would disagree with me. I happen to think that our local can get it finances under control and go back into finacial solvency. It has happened before to other corporations, non-profits and even people.
But that requires a plan. You must cut spending to a point where revenues are higher than your spending. P.K. doesn't have a plan. We are soon going off a finacial cliff that we cannot come back from.
Reform952 (which I am backing) has a plan to right our sinking ship. We pointed out 3 years ago that we were spending more that we were taking in and were attacked by the incumbants and their supporters.
You just keep backing P.K. If he pulls off a miracle and survives this election, you will soon after have some explaining to do LUCY. We will be in bankruptcy with P.K. steering the ship. He is heading right at the financial cliff and all you are doing is trying to stop us from stopping him.
You will be equally to blame. We will not forget or forgive. You have been given the information (right off of the LM-2 reports themselves) and you continue to attack us and back P.K.
Remember, if P.K. wins and soon after we go bankrupt, I wouldn't want to be you. You have seen how we have treated alot of the scabs right?

Did you even read what I wrote?........ Now I know why people say T.D.U. means too dumb to understand.

 

[LagunaBrown]

Let me school you some more. Go make a bar graph of Sandy Popes local 805 (who you endorsed) net assets from 2008 to 2012. Once again your being hypocritical and don't get it. Your still new to this so I will forgive you.

 

[The Other Side]

Let me school you some more. Go make a bar graph of Sandy Popes local 805 (who you endorsed) net assets from 2008 to 2012. Once again your being hypocritical and don't get it. Your still new to this so I will forgive you.

This thread is about local 952 and attempting to confuse the issue or redirect the issue to local 804 is lame at best.

You keep saying you are "schooling" people on this thread, yet, you havent been correct on a single issue. Your local is in trouble, and hopefully, youre not silly enough to deny that. Financially, local 952 is in trouble. Liquidating assets is never a good business plan and if your hopes are set on this, then you dont understand the term "fiduciary duty".

Its clear you dont want the membership informed on the realities of local 952 finances. Regardless of who is the messenger, the facts are the facts.

The membership of local 952 deserve and have the right to know what financial shape local 952 is in. That is "their" money that is being lost, and its not PK's personal money that he is losing.

The trend is clear, since 2008 the local has gone from the black to the red. Somehow you equate that with success and solid leadership.

The rest of us are shaking our heads and wondering how your thought process actually works.

Maybe its the donuts?

peace

TOS

 

[Inthegame]

This thread is about local 952 and attempting to confuse the issue or redirect the issue to local 804 is lame at best.

You keep saying you are "schooling" people on this thread, yet, you havent been correct on a single issue. Your local is in trouble, and hopefully, youre not silly enough to deny that. Financially, local 952 is in trouble. Liquidating assets is never a good business plan and if your hopes are set on this, then you dont understand the term "fiduciary duty".

Its clear you dont want the membership informed on the realities of local 952 finances. Regardless of who is the messenger, the facts are the facts.

The membership of local 952 deserve and have the right to know what financial shape local 952 is in. That is "their" money that is being lost, and its not PK's personal money that he is losing.

The trend is clear, since 2008 the local has gone from the black to the red. Somehow you equate that with success and solid leadership.

The rest of us are shaking our heads and wondering how your thought process actually works.

Maybe its the donuts?

peace

TOS

Right but we all know that LB was merely comparing "leaders" with the L805 (not L804) analogy.
Did L952 not recently terminate the employment of a Business Rep? That will not be reported until next years LM2 and should reflect substantial (over $150K with bennys) savings. LM2's are one barometer of financial strength but they don't always reflect an accurate picture on a yearly basis as depreciated assets values are listed even as real value exceeds the listed value skewing real asset value downward, especially in the days of depressed real estate. Trends however need to be studied and action taken, such as reducing staff which is exactly what has happened. Sounds like fiduciarily responsible action to me.

"The rest of us are shaking our heads..." How many personalities do you possess?

 

[LagunaBrown]

Right but we all know that LB was merely comparing "leaders" with the L805 (not L804) analogy.
Did L952 not recently terminate the employment of a Business Rep? That will not be reported until next years LM2 and should reflect substantial (over $150K with bennys) savings. LM2's are one barometer of financial strength but they don't always reflect an accurate picture on a yearly basis as depreciated assets values are listed even as real value exceeds the listed value skewing real asset value downward, especially in the days of depressed real estate. Trends however need to be studied and action taken, such as reducing staff which is exactly what has happened. Sounds like fiduciarily responsible action to me.

"The rest of us are shaking our heads..." How many personalities do you possess?

Well said. I am trying to have them figure it out for themselves but they can't get past net assets. Thanks!

 

[The Other Side]

I am not saying action isnt being taken by the current 952 regime, and I can agree with your points, but regardless of cuts, sustaining the local is still an issue. Real Estate values presently in California are depressed, and the selling of those assets may see an even larger loss of money.

The releasing of one business agent may save 75K a year, but that wont float the boat for very long.

The real issue is where is the money going? How outrageous are the salaries and benefits of the local? What backdoor contributions are being taken out of the dues money and placed into trust funds?

For example, in 396, our officers are having over $1000.00 each (per month) contributed into the pacific coast trust fund for them. I am sure NOT one of the members in local 396 are aware of this. I am, as I was an officer of the local.

Do the math.

Presently, thats approximately $170K put away when they exit the local (if they leave end of 2014). Did the members approve this? NO. The executive board voted by majority to do so.

It will be curious to see what kind of contributions local 952 is making for its officers into the pacific coast trust fund.

These are the types of things the members need to find out about and stop if it helps keeps the local afloat. Slush funds NEVER help the local.

Peace

TOS

 

[stink219]

Well said. I am trying to have them figure it out for themselves but they can't get past net assets. Thanks!

They won't. Their philosophy is to take a set of ANY declining number and embellish upon it. That's the Termite way. TDU propaganda rule #4 states:
Propaganda must affect the enemy's policy and action.
a. By suppressing propagandistically desirable material which can provide the enemy with useful intelligence
b. By openly disseminating propaganda whose content or tone causes the enemy to draw the desired conclusions
c. By goading the enemy into revealing vital information about himself
d. By making no reference to a desired enemy activity when any reference would discredit that activity

Now, does this sound like a few trolls on this thread? Every "reformer" thinks its easy to run a local. Until they have that "OH *****" moment. Look at the reform locals. You can down play it, you can avoid it, but one of 3 elements are clear....... Spending for organizing without a return on investments, excessive discipline spikes and/or health funds tank. Dont take my word for it. Learn about it.

 

[Inthegame]

I am not saying action isnt being taken by the current 952 regime, and I can agree with your points, but regardless of cuts, sustaining the local is still an issue. Real Estate values presently in California are depressed, and the selling of those assets may see an even larger loss of money.

The releasing of one business agent may save 75K a year, but that wont float the boat for very long.

The real issue is where is the money going? How outrageous are the salaries and benefits of the local? What backdoor contributions are being taken out of the dues money and placed into trust funds?

For example, in 396, our officers are having over $1000.00 each (per month) contributed into the pacific coast trust fund for them. I am sure NOT one of the members in local 396 are aware of this. I am, as I was an officer of the local.

Do the math.

Presently, thats approximately $170K put away when they exit the local (if they leave end of 2014). Did the members approve this? NO. The executive board voted by majority to do so.

It will be curious to see what kind of contributions local 952 is making for its officers into the pacific coast trust fund.

These are the types of things the members need to find out about and stop if it helps keeps the local afloat. Slush funds NEVER help the local.

Peace

TOS

Losing that Bus Rep will save 2X your $75K estimate. But on to your salient points...If indeed you were an officer before, you know every expense must be reported and the Trustees of the E-Board bear responsibility if expenses are hidden and can be in serious do-do if anything is held back. If the allocation made to a JC benefit plan is made, it must be reported. I see nothing on L396's LM2 that corresponds with your allegation. If an allocation is made, I'm guessing it is part of the comp package your local has approved and reported to the membership.

I see no allocation as alleged to any "slush" fund in L952.

L396 lists 29 staff and over 10,200 members. L952 lists 28 employees with 8800 members which appears to be a bit overweight with staff, but some appear to have limited employment on a term basis, probably an organizing drive. The salaries in both Locals are modest by California standards (other than both PO's) and both locals had exceptional expenses fighting anti-union propositions. The legal fees appear high in L952 which means lots of arbitrations and/or higher than normal negotiation expenses. That happens, and it means the union is providing the necessary service for their members.

 

[realbrown1]

Losing that Bus Rep will save 2X your $75K estimate. But on to your salient points...If indeed you were an officer before, you know every expense must be reported and the Trustees of the E-Board bear responsibility if expenses are hidden and can be in serious do-do if anything is held back. If the allocation made to a JC benefit plan is made, it must be reported. I see nothing on L396's LM2 that corresponds with your allegation. If an allocation is made, I'm guessing it is part of the comp package your local has approved and reported to the membership.

I see no allocation as alleged to any "slush" fund in L952.

L396 lists 29 staff and over 10,200 members. L952 lists 28 employees with 8800 members which appears to be a bit overweight with staff, but some appear to have limited employment on a term basis, probably an organizing drive. The salaries in both Locals are modest by California standards (other than both PO's) and both locals had exceptional expenses fighting anti-union propositions. The legal fees appear high in L952 which means lots of arbitrations and/or higher than normal negotiation expenses. That happens, and it means the union is providing the necessary service for their members.

The firing of the BA will save about $105k a year plus his expense acount and benefits. So a rough est. would be $160k per year. But that won't really show up on the LM-2 until the 2014 year. Because I guarantee you that he had about a year of vacation pay coming and maybe severance.
When our last BA at UPS was fired, he cashed out a year of vacation. When our last President retired in early Jan 2011, he made well over $100k for that year. These guys seem to have jobs that just keeps on giving long after they are gone.
And as for the slush fund, I would like to see where that is hidden on the LM-2's. There are places that are very generic in their discription.