UPSPAC & United Way 2012

[soberups]

Perhaps we should use this model with our service providers. Shippers or consignees (anyone really) could approach service providers and ask them for specific delivery times or accomodations. Of course, only the ones bringing checks made out to the service provider would have the opportunity to have their voices heard. The checks wouldn't be bribes or any type of quid pro quo - no way - that would be unethical. It's simply listening money. Sometimes the requests would work against the goals of their employer, but the service providers need to keep their check writing customers happy after all that listening they did. Some customers will say "why do I have to write a check for the service providers to do their job"? We call those customers the naive ones.

Like it or not, government has processes and procedures. PAC's, Lobbying, relationships are part of those processes. There is a reason its called politics.

As I said, like it or not. Not acknowledging the process is naive.

The situation you outliined is NOT the process (at least it's not supposed to be).

There are lots of processes I don't like. This is one of those.

But, why would I not utilize the process when competitors and labor does?

I agree with the need to participate in the process, if for no other reason than to keep from being left out.

I do think, however, that it is a bit hypocritical of the company to pressure its management people for contributions while at the same time freezing their pay and screwing them out of MIP bonuses.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I do think, however, that it is a bit hypocritical of the company to pressure its management people for contributions while at the same time freezing their pay and screwing them out of MIP bonuses.

Our center pushed our start time from 0915 to 0930 Tuesday-Friday effectively taking away 1 hour each week. I responded by reducing my UW contribution from $50/week to $10/week. I guess I wasn't the only one as UW contributions among the drivers was down significantly this year. I found it a bit hypocritical that our center manager effectively reduced our weekly paychecks yet pressured us to maintain our previous years' contributions.

 

[Catatonic]

I try to not be a petty person.
I believe in the United Way and maintained my Leadership level of contribution.
Two wrongs don't make a right.

However, I respect the decision of a person to relegate this to a quid pro quo situation.

PS - there was no pressure in our center to contribute.
I attribute this to the likeability and sincerity of our United Way coordinator.

 

[pretzel_man]

I agree with the need to participate in the process, if for no other reason than to keep from being left out.

I do think, however, that it is a bit hypocritical of the company to pressure its management people for contributions while at the same time freezing their pay and screwing them out of MIP bonuses.

I do not see the point you are making as being hypocritical. The management committee is supposed to balance the needs of multiple constituents. Of course shareowners are an important one of those. They decided that the best course of action is to eliminate raises for a year and change some other programs.

If these moves are good for shareowners, then management being shareowners is also helped from that perspective. Asking for UPSPAC contributions is also supposed to help shareowners. It is not contradictory.

Now, on the other hand..... I do think it hypocritical that they gave themselves significant raises.... I think they should have cut their pay during the crisis to show leadership. I do see hypocrisy in some things they do, but not in the area you mention.

In UPS' history, when their was a significant issue management has always been affected. Long before we were public, there were reduction in programs, stock dividends instead of cash, and many quarters of zero stock growth.....

The concept is supposed to be that managment are employees, managers, AND owners of the company. They are supposed to think and act as owners. Some do NOT think that way and unfortunately much of that can be seen on this board.

Maybe we need an additional tier in managmenet. A person who is just a managment employee. They would be treated more like an hourly and we would make sure to NOT reduce their benefits. Other companies do this.

Of course, they would not get MIP. That way they can't complain about decisions that are good for shareowners.

 

[tarbar66]

I do not see the point you are making as being hypocritical. The management committee is supposed to balance the needs of multiple constituents. Of course shareowners are an important one of those. They decided that the best course of action is to eliminate raises for a year and change some other programs.

If these moves are good for shareowners, then management being shareowners is also helped from that perspective. Asking for UPSPAC contributions is also supposed to help shareowners. It is not contradictory.

Now, on the other hand..... I do think it hypocritical that they gave themselves significant raises.... I think they should have cut their pay during the crisis to show leadership. I do see hypocrisy in some things they do, but not in the area you mention.

In UPS' history, when their was a significant issue management has always been affected. Long before we were public, there were reduction in programs, stock dividends instead of cash, and many quarters of zero stock growth.....

The concept is supposed to be that managment are employees, managers, AND owners of the company. They are supposed to think and act as owners. Some do NOT think that way and unfortunately much of that can be seen on this board.

Maybe we need an additional tier in managmenet. A person who is just a managment employee. They would be treated more like an hourly and we would make sure to NOT reduce their benefits. Other companies do this.

Of course, they would not get MIP. That way they can't complain about decisions that are good for shareowners.

Like many others have said I would have liked to worked for you. When I started at UPS 80% of my sups and managers were people you enjoyed working for or with. Unfortunately 30 years later that number was less than 30%.


Can someone nominate you to become a BOD member please.

 

[Catatonic]

In UPS' history, when their was a significant issue management has always been affected. Long before we were public, there were reduction in programs, stock dividends instead of cash, and many quarters of zero stock growth.....

The concept is supposed to be that management are employees, managers, AND owners of the company. They are supposed to think and act as owners. Some do NOT think that way and unfortunately much of that can be seen on this board.

Maybe we need an additional tier in management. A person who is just a management employee. They would be treated more like an hourly and we would make sure to NOT reduce their benefits. Other companies do this.

Of course, they would not get MIP. That way they can't complain about decisions that are good for share-owners.

We already have that other tier of management P-man and you are in that tier but you are behaving like the old partner (not slamming because I still do the same thing).

I remember the old days when all management made sacrifices in hard times but when prosperous times came, we were over-compensated to make up for those sacrifices.
Now, however, the partner level is level 20 and above and when all management makes the sacrifices to get the company through a hard-spot, the level 18s and below are not over-compensated in years following those hard times.
At least, in the last 13 years, I have not seen this over-compensation - and - if it does occur in the future, it will begin to make level 18s and below feel like partners again.
I hope so because United Parcel Service was a special place to work for all management but not so much now.
Now it feels like most management at level 18 and below are "just a management employee".
My ad hoc observations lead me to think that about 80% of level 18's and below act (observable behavior) like management employees.

I take the time and risk to post this because I am just as concerned as you are about the missing "management partner" attitude and my other ad hoc observations leads me to think that level 22s and above are not aware of the total degradation of the "management partner" attitude at UPS.

 

[packageguy]

If you really want to contribute to something totally...... then volunteer.....drive a chemo patient to their treatment. They can't drive after chemo.

Hold crack babies of addicted mothers...........no one will deduct operating expenses of any kind when you give your time.

Work in a soup kitchen. Volunteer at a Veteran's Hospital. There are so many places that need the direct help of your time and what you give gets to them 100%.

Your right, but sometimes people don't have time for that,
between kids activities and other obligations not enough time in a day.

 

[SignificantOwner]

...The concept is supposed to be that managment are employees, managers, AND owners of the company. They are supposed to think and act as owners. Some do NOT think that way and unfortunately much of that can be seen on this board.

Maybe we need an additional tier in managmenet. A person who is just a managment employee. They would be treated more like an hourly and we would make sure to NOT reduce their benefits. Other companies do this.

Of course, they would not get MIP. That way they can't complain about decisions that are good for shareowners...

Let me know when you get that done. Until then I'll behave as I'm treated, which is as an employee that shares in the cost reduction initiatives, but not in the wins. I"ll continue to do my best at my job of course, but I'm not going to stress out trying to reach unrealistic goals. It would be naive to do otherwise.

 

[Catatonic]

Let me know when you get that done. Until then I'll behave as I'm treated, which is as an employee that shares in the cost reduction initiatives, but not in the wins. I"ll continue to do my best at my job of course, but I'm not going to stress out trying to reach unrealistic goals. It would be naive to do otherwise.

Pman did say "supposed to be".

He can only influence his small area and he may perceive it as being that way still.

Our area is still that way for people with 20 years or more ... slips a little after that although the less than 20 are good solid employees that have a more balanced view towards their job and the rest of their life. I think this is normal for Gen X, Gen Y and the Millenniums.

 

[mg5]

Hoax I tend to agree with some of what you just said and SigOwn too. But I still believe what I said before, 20's and above DO NOT CARE !! They are compensated differently over others below them. I'm sure that level was not sat down and told you are not getting a raise like many Mgr's & Sup's were this past spring. Something we will not know for sure. I had 35 years in when I retired and the last 10 to 15 years that top down buy in was long gone. Lower management always took the hit for union employees as when we were asked to start paying for benefits so we could work out the bugs and get them to follow.......Well that never happened.
There is not the feeling among management that was there before and instilled it in the younger members to make a stronger company for ALL.
Long gone in Corporate America it seems. WIFM- what's in it for me. A UPS training term from many years ago. Some may remember.
Oh and I just received my UW contribution for retired UPSers asking again for an increase.

 

[beentheredonethat]

Maybe we need an additional tier in managmenet. A person who is just a managment employee. They would be treated more like an hourly and we would make sure to NOT reduce their benefits. Other companies do this.
Of course, they would not get MIP. That way they can't complain about decisions that are good for shareowners.

We already have that other tier of management P-man and you are in that tier

Pretzel, Hoaxster is spot on. I don't begrudge you for your hard work to get to a high level within UPS. Congratulations. I just think it's been too long since you see what goes on at the level of the driver, the on road supv, the center manager. Corporate dictates exactly what the centers are to do and how to do it. When their plan fails, they then yell at the lower level management employees. Not once do they look and realize that many times it is the plan they are given that is bad. It used to be 20+ years ago that we could bring drivers on board into management. Now, the only ones who do that, are drivers that have not gotten to full pay. When they switch they will now not get protected by a union. They will not get a Christmas bonus. Odds are the chance of becoming rich as a UPSer mgmt person is long gone. They will have to pay for their own H&W. I believe it is Southwest Airlines that has everyone from their corporate office work the front lines one day a year to know what it's like for those people. I will agree as a company UPS is still strong. However, in keeping with what Hoaxster said, there are a lot of people who are 20+ UPS Mgmt people that still are driven to do their best etc. A lot of these people are retiring. The new people we have I don't think are motivated to work hard, not due to them being Generation X or Y or whatever. It's due to how they are treated and how they are incentivized.