What if Ups buys out Teamsters/Central States Pension woo`s?
- Thread starter wildgoose
- Start date
Jon, you say your from the N east and yet no apwa officials have been up there? This is a good example of hearing interesting information and yet not finding out for yourself which surprises me since you say you are a fact checker. Private message me and I'll give you there phone number. I would love to just give it now but I don't know if they would appreciate me giving it out just yet. You could also sign up on the apwa website to get any information on just about anything that you want. The point is everything these guys have come up with are here to benefit all upser's and not just a few. Lets not forget, they are ups hourly employees weather you like them or not their intentions are to help not to hender even if you don't believe them. But not believing this is possible and thinking the trustees of cs just had a bad year is just making up excuses because if everything you say is true, and I do believe you for the most part, its doesn't make any sense that the other funds outside of cs have done so well. I can even go as far as saying my 401k has done just as good with little interaction with it let alone a muti-billion dollar pension fund. Sure there are going to be ups and downs but knowing cs track record doesn't say much for it considering the writing has been on the wall for much longer than they would like to tell. Again, don't take my word for it. Check it out and I know how it sounds like being secretive but they do have very good reasons for this and once you have spoke to either of them they will give you just about any info you need. If this doesn't work let me know and I will get it for you. So don't take this the wrong way, because I'm hear to help when I can.
Just a question. If UPS ends up with the pension, how will this effect UPS teamsters whom serve as full time employees of there respective union? OK, you have a local President that used to work as a hourly employee at UPS. His/hers pensions benefits have been paid by the local to Central States.
Now, lets' say that UPS has the pension.As you all know, UPS does not pay weekly benefits on part timers. So its safe to say that this will not happen to full timers under a UPS pension.
Several years ago we had a UPS part timer that was Sec-Treasurer at our Local. When that Exec Board lost re-election he went back to his part time position at UPS. Unknown to him all the time working at the local was lost toward his retirement. After a lot of communication between the Local and UPS the part timer lost out. UPSs' claim was we cannot accept payment from the local for his years service to the union based on the reason that, UPS does not pay money on behalf of the part timers to the UPS pension plan, as we pay Central States for full timers. So there was no monetary amount that could be figured.
So the question I ask is? How will this pan out for UPS full timers whom become elected and work full time within their respective union.? Will those people still be in CS and continue to build time toward their retirement, or will UPS set a weekly amount that the local can pay, and then the person will become a part of the UPS pension plan?
Now, lets' say that UPS has the pension.As you all know, UPS does not pay weekly benefits on part timers. So its safe to say that this will not happen to full timers under a UPS pension.
Several years ago we had a UPS part timer that was Sec-Treasurer at our Local. When that Exec Board lost re-election he went back to his part time position at UPS. Unknown to him all the time working at the local was lost toward his retirement. After a lot of communication between the Local and UPS the part timer lost out. UPSs' claim was we cannot accept payment from the local for his years service to the union based on the reason that, UPS does not pay money on behalf of the part timers to the UPS pension plan, as we pay Central States for full timers. So there was no monetary amount that could be figured.
So the question I ask is? How will this pan out for UPS full timers whom become elected and work full time within their respective union.? Will those people still be in CS and continue to build time toward their retirement, or will UPS set a weekly amount that the local can pay, and then the person will become a part of the UPS pension plan?
Does it really matter, because most of the elected officers in the IBT have multiple pensions anyway.
barking dog
Member
You might be missing the point here. It is not a matter of the IBT. This issue would be applicable to any union representing UPS workers whether it be the IBT, APWA or any other union. If an employee takes leave from the company for union service (employment) and the company controls the pension and restricts it to company employees then the time spent employeed by the union would not count towards the company plan. Likewise, the time put into the union plan could not be applied to the company plan on return to UPS employment. UPS is not offering portability.
This is what "portability" means. Portability is the ability to take earned pension credits with you from one union employer to another. The central states has portability within it's signatory employers. UPS would not.
There are many disadvantages to going with a single employer pension fund. Everybody should take the time to investigate for themselves what they could gain and what they could lose by going with a UPS only pension. Like leaving UPS for any medical reason prior to reaching their established retirement criteria and having your pension frozen (only if vested) and held by UPS until you reach retirement age. Then you would have to go find another job and start all over at day one on a new pension with another "single employer" fund. At retirement age you would then get two piddly little pensions because of the break in "single employer" coverage.
There are advantages to staying with a "multi-employer" fund and the biggest one is "portability". The ability to take your eraned pension credits with you to another participating union employer and continue an onging accural of pension benefits is huge. How many UPS'ers come down with bad backs; bad legs; broken bones and such that force them to go find another less physically demanding job before retirement age? Why should they be penalized and risk losing their UPS only pension because of a physical problem that is out of their control? Just something to think about.
Good points DOG,--------------BUT-------------
In my opinion, were UPS employees are concerned, portability is given way to much attention. I would think that the percentage of UPS hourlies that leave UPS for a lower paying job at another union company is very small, other than employees that are terminated, I would think that the numbers are next to nothing.
I would also think that in a single employer fund that pension portability would be an issue negotiated in the contract, so that it would not be lost.
Either way, it would be each persons choice whether to take a job with the union and if portability was an issue, that would be something that each person would have to decide for themself.
barking dog
Member
I can agree with you on the part of "voluntary" decisions to leave the single employer fund for something like serving in a union position. You are correct in that portability or the lack of it would have to be determining factor in a persons "voluntary" decision to leave UPS. However, it is the "involuntary" ones that concern me. If someone had 19 years with UPS and had to leave the job due to circumstances beyond their control - they stand to lose alot. It is a consideration that should be included in anyones decision on how they vote on this proposal. Portability in pensions is not negotiated into the collective bargaining agreement. It is a pension fund action that is outside of the labor contract between the employer and the company. Also, even if it could be given by mutual agreement of the pension fund trustees UPS would not agree to it because it would fly in the face of what they are trying to do now in creating a UPS only pension.
When UPS decided to shut down the Thrift Plan just how much input did they get from the participants prior to shutting it down and switching over to the company stock option? None. So why would anyone think that the company would take their (the employees) best interest to heart with the pension grab they are trying to set up? Anybody that has been around this company long enough knows they only do what is best for them and the bottom line. They will sacrifice anybody and anything for the bottom line. (Even your pensions)
DOG----Again, good points---------BUT----
We all tend to put to much importance on the scenarios of what might happen to a very small percentage of us, if the moon lines up with the sun, and this and that happens. I don't mean to come off sounding like a smart A--, but we need to start worrying about what "IS" definitely going to happen to the majority of us and not much what, might happen to a small percentage.
Also I think your post has alot of good points too, but the difference between a single-employer pension fund and the way the apwa proposes is a bit different. And that is if our pension was in the hands of an outside investment firm with trustees from ups hourly and retirees it wouldn't matter if ups goes belly up or if you had to leave early or whatever you can think of the fact is it wouldn't matter. This is the only way to be fair to everybody. If you put in 19 years you get 19 years worth of pension. If you want to quit to go somewhere else, your time of years is all that would matter. Bottom line is the money you've earned is yours and you should be able to get it no matter what life can throw at you. And lets not forget that all important rule of not being able to work elsewhere would be gone as well.
I completely agree with what you say about ups and the teamsters having there own agenda and that is why its time we take back whats ours and show both the teamsters and ups that we're not typical union members and we can fix things ourselves if pushed into a corner. I for one know we can do alot better than any proposals I've seen thus far.
If you want Wildgoose to post his information, then you in turn should do the same. What are the Teamsters hiding. If nothing, then you should be happy to post your 9 page article. If you don't, then your statements are as blank as anyone else who can't verify what they say.
First of all Raceanoncr, I have answered all your questions and have been able to verify my information, but you are still not satisfied and never will be. I have been asking all you die-hard Teamsters one question, but none of you cowards can answer truthfully. WHAT IS THE TEAMSTERS DOING TO FIX THE PENSION PROBLEMS IN CENTRAL STATES? All you can do is avoid the question by diverting attention to another topic. You don't have any answers, and the Teamsters don't either. I asked a BA where I work this question, and he started telling me about other companies, and the fact that his dad worked for 30 years at a union job. I replied that this still doesn't answer the question, so he walked away. Is this the representation that we are supposed to be receiving? Is it any wonder that we are fed up with the lies, the deception, and the misrepresentation, and at this point, the only attractive alternative is a union for UPS people only. This is exactly what the APWA is trying to achieve, but the Teamsters are afraid that if we accomplish this, they will no longer receive the huge pay and benefits that we they steal from our hard work. The BA's where I work, just received a 10% pay increase (easy to check your BA's salary on www.unionfacts.com ). While they are enjoying more pay and benefits, they have no qualms about cutting our benefits. Are they working for us, or are we working for them?
Did you miss the fact (5500 annual report from Central states) that while CS has $19 billion in assets, CS also has $39 billion dollars in liabilities? They seem to be short $20 billion. Is this not a case of more drawing than paying in? Am I missing something here, or are you just blowing smoke out of your mouth (I was thinking of another orifice, but I was just being nice) At the current rate the pension fund will be bankrupt in 7-10 years. What will happen then? Doyou have an answer, or can I expect more lies from you.
705red
Browncafe Steward
E79 nice of you to come back, alot of people have questions for you that you havent answered. Keep up the good work, because of you and wild goose the apwa following here is losing alot of support! Show me where i have lied!!!!!!
I have answered all your questions, but the one question I have posted over and over has never been answered. Why is this? The question once again can be found in post # 52. You have misled the sheep with your propaganda into believing that the Teamsters are "working" for the best interests of the hard working employee, when in reality, we are working to pay you and your cronies huge salaries and benefits. As far as losing support, look no further than the Teamsters, whose membership numbers keep dropping year after year. Care to debate this fact too?
Hey Red quite the contrary, more and more people are asking about the APWA and wanting to sign cards every day. Your demeanor is one of our strong points that keep showing what the teamsters are all about
.Hey Red quite the contrary, more and more people are asking about the APWA and wanting to sign cards every day. Your demeanor is one of our strong points that keep showing what the teamsters are all about
Goose,
705red isn't all bad. I am an APWA supporter and for a while now red and I have been having very good talks. I think it is because we both stopped bashing each other and just tell our point of view, talk things out and exchange info. We don't always agree on things but I have learned a lot from RED and hope I have helped him see my point of view.
After all, we are all UPS employees, and that is the group that we all need to support. Keeping that in mind, all others are the outsiders, the teamsters, the APWA, etc.
We should all try and focus on helping our UPS brothers and sisters and the rest will fall into place.
raceanoncr
Well-Known Member
Answered all my questions, Eng? Oh, boy, how many times do I have to go over this? Verified all information?
First of all, was this post directed at you? I think not! This post was directed at Wildgoose and he STILL has not answered the questions. This further cements the ATTENTION DISORDER that you both seem to be afflicted with.
One more time. The question in this post was: Please post for me and others where you see that Social Security will be deducted from our pension. The next question was: Please post for me where it says that Teamsters will be the "overseer" of this new, company pension.
My questions for you still stand UNANSWERED and UNVERIFIED! They are????
PROVE to me that your city councilman is receiving a pension from the city council, as you claimed months ago and haven't posted or verified! OH, you said go to the website. Well, I did and it don't say squat about a pension.
PROVE to me that your city councilman is receiving wages for his council work, as you claimed months ago and haven't posted or verified! Oh, again, you said go to the website. Well, you know what? It don't say squat about wages!
PROVE to me that your city councilman is attending council meetings on Teamster time, as you claimed months ago and haven't posted or verified! Oh, agin, you said go to the website. Well, you know what? It don't say nuttin about time of meetings!
All you can do is divert the questions back to your hatred of the Teamsters and CS. By your skillful diversion tactics you MUST be management!
Please be advised: I really don't care what the answers are! It's just that YOU brought up the questions! Since you did, I want the answers! Show what you're made of!
You are taking my exact words and turning them around to make it look like YOU said them! Clever!
You and your people want me to post this 9 page dibacle called the "Employer Proposal"?, or else you won't believe it anything we quote from it? Well, you know what? I don't have time for this. I'm not as eddycated as you and, although Cheryl has helped in many cases and is very knowledgable on how to make this into a readable format, I don't feel I have to post this when this info was readily available at our last general membership meeting. Stacks of copies were available to ALL members and should be available at all locals.
BUT wait a minute! If we are NOT members or don't go to any meetings, then we wouldn't have access to this, would we? Hmmmmm, too bad, huh?
Well, I know you and Goose ain't gonna answer these again, so I see no need to deal with you again. I know, I said this before, but your mindless babblings keep drawing me back. This time, I say NO! Keep drawing in the uninformed that are enthralled with this kinda talk and sit back patting yourself on the back. I, for one (even tho I surely ain't as smart as you, because you've let me know that so many times), like to get answers to my questions and you two don't offer any.
Racer,
I don't want to get in the middle of this, but one thing in your post caught my attention. You said that you got the info at your last local meeting. So, this was something that the IBT printed up. Brings up an issue of credibility. I have yet to hear the company proposal from UPS.
raceanoncr
Well-Known Member
Saw, I got COPIES at last local meeting. It appears that this might have been printed out by company because of all the company-favored proposals in here.
I can't believe the IBT would print this up, although, sad to say, it looks like the IBT is bucking for approval. My copy is so scratched over with figures and underlines and handwritten footnotes that I don't think it would even COPY very good.
Anyway, it's dated May 8, 2007 and is entitled EMPLOYER PROPOSAL.
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