What should be done when teamsters are found to be working for UPS off the clock?

[Integrity]

if your seeing this behavior going on, isn't it your responsibility to write a grievance and have a steward process it to be paid for the time worked?I don't recall saying that I witnessed this. I thought I was responding to something mentioned here on the BC. If I did witness it I don't have to grieve it. If I want to I can, but it is not my reponsibility. I generally will not grieve these widespread practices that the union officials already know about but have been incapable of successfully addressing. It's not the "union officials" job, if your a teamster, then it's yours. I disagree here.


Article 17 : the employer will not allow employees to work prior to their start time without appropriate compensation.

So u see I , its UPS s responsibility, and if they allow it and your a teamster, it's your job to enforce the contract. How can your "union officials" know there is a problem if they don't have a grievance on it?They know this is a widespread practice yet I believe their hands are tied. Get writing I. No thank you.

Sincerely

Q

QKRSTKR,

Responses above.

Sincerely,
I

 

[DS]

I agree I working off the clock is a huge issue that brings up a few issues.
Supervisors doing union work,it works well for the company.
We have several drivers that come in an hour early every day that
basically load their own truck.What to do about it?
Our center manager is a .If I file a grievance I will have a target on my back.
I'm too old for this shiht.
This thread is a good one.
Let's see how it goes.

 

[Inthegame]

I agree I working off the clock is a huge issue that brings up a few issues.
Supervisors doing union work,it works well for the company.
We have several drivers that come in an hour early every day that
basically load their own truck.What to do about it?
Our center manager is a .If I file a grievance I will have a target on my back.
I'm too old for this shiht.
This thread is a good one.
Let's see how it goes.

How strong are your stewards? I threatened to file on behalf of any senior employee when anyone worked uncompensated before their start time and Management would end the early starting or put the employee on the clock. See a steward and tell them to try that approach. (Didn't always just threaten...a particular senior guy, now retired, thanks me often for the many grievance checks he received from this technique.)

 

[LongTimeComing]

Driver Joe finishes his route on time everyday. For the most part, he's not running over much at all. But since Driver Joe lives 45 mins from his work, he would like to get done sooner so he can make it home to his wife and 2 month old before 8:30pm since family time is pretty important. Driver Joe decides that if he shows up 45 minutes early to set-up his truck, he can cut almost an hour off of his route (that he was running over on, to begin with...don't forget) so now he can be home around 7:30pm. This is worth not getting paid, to him. Compensation doesn't just exist in the form of money from a corporation.

If he wasn't running over, and he is setting up his truck just for the sake of making it home to see his family sooner....is this even qualifying as stealing time? Would you really grieve what "Driver Joe" is doing when he's not actually taking work away from anyone?

I pose this question, as I've seen this in my time driving. I had a pretty long talk with this driver. He was quite senior. I was wondering why I always saw him in his truck moving stuff all around from where the preloader put it. He said it makes his route run much smoother. I had asked that if he didn't do this, would he get back late or run over allowance....he said no. He said he just wanted to get done sooner. While I understand that I COULD have grieved....why would I bring the eventual heat from management down on this guy if he's just simply wanting to get home to his family sooner? He'd be running on time either way...so it's not like it's the company's fault for over-dispatching....

Maybe I'm describing a really narrow, specific situation...but I believe I'm not. I agree wholeheartedly that there are serious issues with drivers preloading the majority of their trucks and working through lunch and clocking out on the way back.....all of those reasons are easy grievances that I would have done myself.

Would it be right to file one in the case of "Driver Joe"?

 

[packageguy]

Driver Joe finishes his route on time everyday. For the most part, he's not running over much at all. But since Driver Joe lives 45 mins from his work, he would like to get done sooner so he can make it home to his wife and 2 month old before 8:30pm since family time is pretty important. Driver Joe decides that if he shows up 45 minutes early to set-up his truck, he can cut almost an hour off of his route (that he was running over on, to begin with...don't forget) so now he can be home around 7:30pm. This is worth not getting paid, to him. Compensation doesn't just exist in the form of money from a corporation.

If he wasn't running over, and he is setting up his truck just for the sake of making it home to see his family sooner....is this even qualifying as stealing time? Would you really grieve what "Driver Joe" is doing when he's not actually taking work away from anyone?

I pose this question, as I've seen this in my time driving. I had a pretty long talk with this driver. He was quite senior. I was wondering why I always saw him in his truck moving stuff all around from where the preloader put it. He said it makes his route run much smoother. I had asked that if he didn't do this, would he get back late or run over allowance....he said no. He said he just wanted to get done sooner. While I understand that I COULD have grieved....why would I bring the eventual heat from management down on this guy if he's just simply wanting to get home to his family sooner? He'd be running on time either way...so it's not like it's the company's fault for over-dispatching....

Maybe I'm describing a really narrow, specific situation...but I believe I'm not. I agree wholeheartedly that there are serious issues with drivers preloading the majority of their trucks and working through lunch and clocking out on the way back.....all of those reasons are easy grievances that I would have done myself.

Would it be right to file one in the case of "Driver Joe"?

A couple months back, We have a driver everyday would drop his bag in his truck a sort for about 20 minutes, I would walk by and see him, I said nothing for about a week then one day I said something to him he told me to mind my business, I said okay in put a grievance in we had a sit down with center manager and union he no longer does this, why I did it because he brag how he got done early everyday. He no longer gets done early

 

[Nimnim]

I'm not really weighing in on this issue, I always show up early to get good parking and assess the situation for my shift, but sometimes I gather my equipment before start time and people have expressed some concern that I gather equipment off the clock on occasion, but that's not really why I'm posting since much of the conversation seems to be aimed at PC drivers doing things off the clock.

So I have a question, say a driver comes in 15 minutes early and examines every package on their package car so they can have an idea of where everything is. Surely this helps the driver complete their deliveries quicker as they won't have to look around as much during the day. Would this be considered working off the clock? I can see how this would be to some.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

This can be done without touching a single package just by downloading and going through EDD. Technically what you described above would be working off the clock. Doing what I described can be done while BSing with the other drivers waiting for the PCM to start.

What we are talking about are those drivers who come in 30 minutes or more early and offer varying degrees of help to their preloaders. This can range from helping close out the pkg car to having the loader hand you packages and you loading them. Whatever you call it you are working for free.

I come in 30-45 minutes early, go through and set up my NDA, locate and pull any bad pal's and help my loader close out the car. I deliver to our local college, which uses many different addresses, so I go through EDD to make sure the loader has caught them all and put them all together.

We have another driver who comes in an hour early and by the time the PCM starts his car is set up stop for stop, with bulk stops prerecorded.

There are several other drivers who are in their cars at least 15 minutes before start time.

Should we be doing this? Of course not but our center has a weak union presence (steward shops up 1 minute before start time) and mgt condones our behavior (why wouldn't they?) so until either the union steps in or mgt has a change of heart this behavior will continue.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

I come in 30-45 minutes early, go through and set up my NDA, locate and pull any bad pal's and help my loader close out the car. I deliver to our local college, which uses many different addresses, so I go through EDD to make sure the loader has caught them all and put them all together.

We have another driver who comes in an hour early and by the time the PCM starts his car is set up stop for stop, with bulk stops prerecorded.

There are several other drivers who are in their cars at least 15 minutes before start time.

Should we be doing this? Of course not but our center has a weak union presence (steward shops up 1 minute before start time) and mgt condones our behavior (why wouldn't they?) so until either the union steps in or mgt has a change of heart this behavior will continue.

That seems to be a recurring theme in small centers.

To blame it on a weak Union presence.... is just some sort of "divergent acceptance" from lack of intestinal fortitude. {polite way to put it}


There is nothing I can say.... to "shame" anyone into having guts.

Other than.... "that crap don't fly around here"



-Bug-

 

[LongTimeComing]

A couple months back, We have a driver everyday would drop his bag in his truck a sort for about 20 minutes, I would walk by and see him, I said nothing for about a week then one day I said something to him he told me to mind my business, I said okay in put a grievance in we had a sit down with center manager and union he no longer does this, why I did it because he brag how he got done early everyday. He no longer gets done early

What exactly did this resolve Is being a prick break a contract rule? Bragging may be annoying, but I fail to see what you successfully accomplished in doing this. So now that he is not getting done early, is he getting done late? Is he running over? If so, then I can understand your position. If not, it just seems like you filed just because you could since he was a jerk to you.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

What exactly did this resolve Is being a prick break a contract rule? Bragging may be annoying, but I fail to see what you successfully accomplished in doing this. So now that he is not getting done early, is he getting done late? Is he running over? If so, then I can understand your position. If not, it just seems like you filed just because you could since he was a jerk to you.

Actually littleboybrown was simply leveling the playing field. The 20 minutes that was spent sorting was work that the rest of the drivers were doing while on road---in effect the guy was getting a 20 minute head start. I bet he is getting done at about the same time as the rest of the guys are.

 

[LongTimeComing]

Rethinking what my topic was about...I reckon I can see how it's a problem as I didn't really think about the possibility of there being a bonus system in place. If that would be the case, then Driver Joe would be making extra money by working off the clock in order to get done early.

I'm basically retracting my question. Kind of the only reason I thought could be relatively excusable to work off the clock was proved invalid.

Though, from a moral standpoint, I still believe those that seek out their fellow teamsters who may do this to file a grievance without every confronting them is pretty dirty. In littleboy's case, I can understand why he did what he did...considering dude basically told him to go fack himself....

 

[stink219]

To knowingly harm another member in ANY way is against the oath we took as Teamsters. But their penalty would be astronomical if they sustained an injury or accident while off the clock.

Teamsters working off the clock are the same ones that would cross picket lines in the event of a strike. File Article 17 as mentioned and don't feel one ounce of shame for doing it. Simply put, these people are stealing from bargaining unit work, helping to falsify production numbers (dishonesty), and are putting themselves at jeopardy in the event of an injury... not to mention what they are doing to the production standards expected of other employees.

The reality is the worker that knowingly works off the clock is an . I'm simply stating that there are ramifications for every action. It starts at teaching and handing down knowledge to the other employees. I've learned day 1 that you get paid for time. We do have a responsibility to guide each other to be a cohesive union. With that being said, as a teamster, we all took an oath to never harm another teamster in any way. If I found out that a member was working off the clock, I would first approach the worker and get the full story. Was he being coerced into the act? Was he doing it for special treatment? What was the reason? His response is dependent on my method of handling the situation. I've learned long ago that there is 1 set answer for every situation.

 

[QKRSTKR]

Rethinking what my topic was about...I reckon I can see how it's a problem as I didn't really think about the possibility of there being a bonus system in place. If that would be the case, then Driver Joe would be making extra money by working off the clock in order to get done early.

I'm basically retracting my question. Kind of the only reason I thought could be relatively excusable to work off the clock was proved invalid.

Though, from a moral standpoint, I still believe those that seek out their fellow teamsters who may do this to file a grievance without every confronting them is pretty dirty. In littleboy's case, I can understand why he did what he did...considering dude basically told him to go fack himself....

I work packages in a bonus center, and that's what happens. I didn't say you shouldn't confront the driver first about it before going to management. But here s the real problem. Driver Joe comes in early to sort his load, so he can get done earlier, and have better numbers. Driver Dave though comes in 5 minutes before his start time and doesn't sort his truck. Driver Dave numbers are worse than driver joes by say the same time joe spends off the clock working. So driver Dave gets harassed because he is unwilling to work off the clock. He gets pulled in office for numbers, gaps in deliveries cause he can't find pkgs in his car, etc. Dave could fix this by simply coming in earlier and working off the clock, but doesn't. So you see I think it's more about fairness to fellow drivers than getting paid for time. Joe gets left alone cause he works off the clock, Dave gets harassed because he doesn't. That's BS.

 

[QKRSTKR]

To All,

For discussion:

This behavior was addressed in another post.

What corrective action must be taken when your brother teamsters are found to be working off the clock for UPS if they aren't willing to stop then someone (but but not you) should file against the company.

I know many probably don't want the hassle that goes with reporting, or as some would say "ratting out", the guilty member, but who's the real rat in this instance so you think the teamster working is the real rat?

I can't help but view a union member that would harm their union brothers by working for UPS for free as anything but a detriment to unionism in this country. Then why aren't you willing to take action? But you just post questions for discussion instead, and do nothing with the responses.

I think there is enough sympathy in our country for corporations against unions and the working class.

It is worse when the sypmathy is coming from the very working class the unions are protecting and the corporations are oppressing.

Sincerely,
I

If you not seeing this going on, why do you care what should be done. Cause it was on the Internet? I tell you what should be done and what would stop it, yet you just ignore it. So what is your point in this thread THAT YOU STARTED.

 

[Limper]

So none of you answered safety questions or Depth of Knowledge 15 minutes before your start time???
Guess what? You're ALL guilty of working off the clock.

 

[PiedmontSteward]

So none of you answered safety questions or Depth of Knowledge 15 minutes before your start time???
Guess what? You're ALL guilty of working off the clock.

I had a supervisor try to give me one of the monthly DoK forms we fill out 1x/month to take home. I laughed at him, clocked out, and told him what he could do with his "homework." It involved stashing it in a body cavity. They still try and pull this one in my area - occasionally - and I stomp it out as best I can.

Any and all time "in service to the employer" shall be paid for.

 

[oldngray]

So none of you answered safety questions or Depth of Knowledge 15 minutes before your start time???
Guess what? You're ALL guilty of working off the clock.

Finish at end of day and code it out to safety. Thats what I did.

 

[QKRSTKR]

So none of you answered safety questions or Depth of Knowledge 15 minutes before your start time???
Guess what? You're ALL guilty of working off the clock.

I had a supervisor come up to me 5 minutes before my start time and asked me about something from my day before. I told him to please wait until I was on the clock before discussing work issues. You want to talk about the weather, fine. I get there 5 minutes before I start, so no I'm not answering DOK before work. We have some guys that are so extreme about doing anything before their start time, they won't even download edd. They punch in and that's it. I'm not that bad.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

Anytime that my boss would ask me something,I would take the DIAD out of my pouch and start pushing buttons..He would then say What are you doing? Answer= I am changing my start time to right now!!!!! You are asking me to start work now? Answer NO....iLL TALK TO YOU AT YOUR NORMAL START TIME!!!!

 

[Integrity]

Driver Joe finishes his route on time everyday. For the most part, he's not running over much at all. But since Driver Joe lives 45 mins from his work, he would like to get done sooner so he can make it home to his wife and 2 month old before 8:30pm since family time is pretty important. Driver Joe decides that if he shows up 45 minutes early to set-up his truck, he can cut almost an hour off of his route (that he was running over on, to begin with...don't forget) so now he can be home around 7:30pm. This is worth not getting paid, to him. Compensation doesn't just exist in the form of money from a corporation.

If he wasn't running over, and he is setting up his truck just for the sake of making it home to see his family sooner....is this even qualifying as stealing time? Would you really grieve what "Driver Joe" is doing when he's not actually taking work away from anyone?

I pose this question, as I've seen this in my time driving. I had a pretty long talk with this driver. He was quite senior. I was wondering why I always saw him in his truck moving stuff all around from where the preloader put it. He said it makes his route run much smoother. I had asked that if he didn't do this, would he get back late or run over allowance....he said no. He said he just wanted to get done sooner. While I understand that I COULD have grieved....why would I bring the eventual heat from management down on this guy if he's just simply wanting to get home to his family sooner? He'd be running on time either way...so it's not like it's the company's fault for over-dispatching....

Maybe I'm describing a really narrow, specific situation...but I believe I'm not. I agree wholeheartedly that there are serious issues with drivers preloading the majority of their trucks and working through lunch and clocking out on the way back.....all of those reasons are easy grievances that I would have done myself.

Would it be right to file one in the case of "Driver Joe"?

LongTimeComing,

Yes.

Sincerely,
I