When did corp. lose touch?

[rngri4]

Man this is my #1 fear as a part-time sup. My FT management team is out the door by 5pm almost every day of the week, I get asked "Are we good" and the answer is always yes and thats it. The senior driver sup makes an effort to take vaction or days off when I am not there because he wants nothing to do with the center at night without me.

Wow, your center must be like heaven for the FT Management staff, our driver sups in our district are required to stay untill all the drivers are in the building, one or two may leave at 1800, but they have already had it cleared, and the rest of the people, including our center manager are lucky if they leave at 20:00 hrs. I myself, usually get to work at around midnight or so, and I am lucky if I leave by 11:00 the next morning.

 

[rngri4]

Rngri, I agree with most of what you say here, and most posts. And I dont get why pt sups boss drivers around but in some centers they do. Actually in some centers they are the only ones there up til an hour before start, and ft is usually not there after 6. While I would bet this doesnt happen in large centers it does in both small ones I have worked in.
Pt sups do what they are told even if it isnt suppose to be their job.
When I was a sup, admittedly many yrs ago, we had a big boss from somewhere come in and started asking me what I was doing, he said Im suppose to be on the belt. I told him I had everything going fine on the belt. I had to get my conference call numbers together, and doing my dispatch by volume estimates, and I had to put the drivers in the right seats. He told me that was full times job, not mine. I was shocked, and I replied "im the only one here" He said they could do all that when they got there. Well when they showed up, everything changed, drivers came to me asking me where they were going and how much they had, which they had done for 6 yrs. I kept telling them It wasnt my job any more. The manager had no #s for his conference call and the ft sups didnt know what to dispatch, or where to find the estimates, or where to find the driver knowledge bible that I had made for myself. Basically I dont think anyone knew what their job was, they were just doing what was left. I didnt know it wasnt my job, I thought it was, and I loved it and I got it all taken away in a day. I was relegated to wasting my time doing 10 pkg audits, on a crew that ran 100%, daily. I had to "give" away my knowledge, to people who never worked to get it as I did. My files were totally up to date and I made the coffee. I felt like a true part of UPS, I thought I was doing well and I would get promoted coz I did good, when in reality all I did was make everyones job easier, and thats why they wouldnt let me advance coz then they would have had to do a harder job.
I guess thats why I get bitter over UPS because I worked hard to get ahead, and they strangled me and I stayed too long and let my degree get old. When they finally offered me a drivers job 70 miles away I took it because I had enough , too much time in already, I felt to just walk away. Many days I wish I had got out while I was younger, my fault for not, but I needed a paycheck, and I was the sole support of my family.
So I guess it hits a nerve when you say, its not their job, because maybe its not a power thing, maybe they think it is their job because that is how they have been conditioned. Sorry for the rant just my opinion.

I agree with your post 100%, it is sort of ashame, but somewhere along the lines, the Full Time Supervisors found they could push a substantial load of work onto the part timers, and as a part timer, you are to do exactly what you are told. It is impossible for a part timer to be monitoring his/her belt, doing a conferance call, and planning all at the same moment, but this is just one of the problems that causes burnout and lack of interest for advancement for many part time sups.

 

[scratch]

Most of my FT Center management comes in a 6:30AM and most of them are gone when I clock out at 5PM, especially on Fridays.

 

[rngri4]

Most of my FT Center management comes in a 6:30AM and most of them are gone when I clock out at 5PM, especially on Fridays.

Wow, I need to transfer it sounds like.

 

[Coldworld]

Hey, even though you are full-time mgr, or on-road sup your still a "bitch" to district level mgt.

 

[rngri4]

Hey, even though you are full-time mgr, or on-road sup your still a "bitch" to district level mgt.

Amen...you are their whipping boy!

 

[Coldworld]

haha, you dont know me very well!!

 

[toonertoo]

My mgr leaves early, but hes there early, and with his time and position, that is how it should be. And yet the sups talk about their 12 hr days, but I seldom see them. Unless training or running routes. And the OMS handles it all when they leave. Granted we have only 3 or 4 On road sups in 2 centers, and 2 cms. And one is suppose to be late night once a week, so I think they work less hours than many centers, or when one of them is on vaca, the hours increase.
I know every one thinks they work too much. And I know they dont feel they get paid fairly, since they are on salary. At least hourly gets paid for their hours.
It has gotten better in my center with new blood. Sometimes thats all it takes.

 

[dodptsup]

I think going public has had a big effect on how things are now run. It seems that hitting the earnings projection is number 1, when it should be taking care of the customer. We can make a billion dollars profit in a quarter, but in the eyes of the investors we have failed if the experts think we should have made a billion and one dollars. I read somewhere that Jim Casey once said, first take care of your customers, second your employees, and profits will fall in line, but that isnt what the company is doing.

 

[Thebrowntruth]

I think going public has had a big effect on how things are now run. It seems that hitting the earnings projection is number 1, when it should be taking care of the customer. We can make a billion dollars profit in a quarter, but in the eyes of the investors we have failed if the experts think we should have made a billion and one dollars. I read somewhere that Jim Casey once said, first take care of your customers, second your employees, and profits will fall in line, but that isnt what the company is doing.

Hard to believe a man like Jim Casey failed in so many different things before he was even "grown up" yet had the wisdom to create what he did. A leader like that today in Atlanta would have Fedex and DHL begging for mercy in a few years. There is always hope!!!

 

[BrownBlackandBlue]

Hard to believe a man like Jim Casey failed in so many different things before he was even "grown up" yet had the wisdom to create what he did. A leader like that today in Atlanta would have Fedex and DHL begging for mercy in a few years. There is always hope!!!

That's a good point. There is a lack of leadership throughout the ranks. We spend most of the day explaining what happened yesterday, instead of focusing on what we are doing today and into the future. Fear is what motivates decisions at every level. One fears the dreaded call from the Opps Mgr or the daily conference call. Conformity is demanded and forward thinking and leading is beaten down. We fear doing anything that will worry the analysts and send the stock price plummetting.
A question. Do the people you would consider good leaders move up in the company or do they stay at mgt levels below their abilities or leave? What are the characteristics of the fast risers and what does this say about our culture of leadership?

 

[Thebrowntruth]

That's a good point. There is a lack of leadership throughout the ranks. We spend most of the day explaining what happened yesterday, instead of focusing on what we are doing today and into the future. Fear is what motivates decisions at every level. One fears the dreaded call from the Opps Mgr or the daily conference call. Conformity is demanded and forward thinking and leading is beaten down. We fear doing anything that will worry the analysts and send the stock price plummetting.
A question. Do the people you would consider good leaders move up in the company or do they stay at mgt levels below their abilities or leave? What are the characteristics of the fast risers and what does this say about our culture of leadership?

Brown,

I agree with you on the motivation through fear. Let's be honest it can be VERY effective. The problem is it only works for a short time, has terrible consequences and is usually used only by the weak minded (both hourly and management). Enough with the mad dash to answer for yesterdays numbers, let the operators build the business for a better tomorrow. If profits were driven by butt kicking conference calls we would all be RICH.

Sorry to say I have seen several terrible individuals move up the corporate chain and that was their only goal, whatever the cost. But I have to have hope because I knew one that has moved up quickly and he is one of those that I would do anything for....just an overall great person and great UPS'er.

As long as there is one I have to keep the faith!

 

[over9five]

"I knew one that has moved up quickly and he is one of those that I would do anything for"

Don't post his name, he'll be gone tomorrow!

 

[SteveOUPS]

Biggest mistake this company ever made was to go public !
Talk about greed

 

[Anonymous Manager]

Hey, don't bring Jim Casey into our management philosophy any more. Our upper management has been trying to get rid of his philosophy ever since they saw the money they could make by taking the company public. Kelly, Eskew, and their investment banker buds have changed us from a Jim Casey partnership to an every man for himself average joe blow company. Jim Casey, George Casey, Everett McCabe, Charlie Soderstrum...it was good while it lasted.

 

[wkmac]

Hey, don't bring Jim Casey into our management philosophy any more. Our upper management has been trying to get rid of his philosophy ever since they saw the money they could make by taking the company public. Kelly, Eskew, and their investment banker buds have changed us from a Jim Casey partnership to an every man for himself average joe blow company. Jim Casey, George Casey, Everett McCabe, Charlie Soderstrum...it was good while it lasted.

I wish like hell I could take credit for thinking of this but I can't. Back in August during the 99th anniversay a number of us hourly and management who'd been around for some years got to talking about what we'd seen over the years. Of course, we came to the same conclusion you have in your post above but this will prove management is able to think after all.

One of the managers suggested that on August 28th, 2007' that management and hourlie alike stage a one day strike together but our signs will read. "Bring Back Jim Casey! It worked for 100 years so let it work for 200!" I know the strike idea is a pipedream and said in a joking jest but I am going to post a sign in my car on that day in the parking lot expressing that very viewpoint.

I think it's an awesome idea myself. I hate it when I get out thought by a stinking management person

 

[trickpony1]

Biggest mistake this company ever made was to go public !
Talk about greed

Some people think the hierarchy that was in place and whom made the decision to go public are the ones that really benefited from the IPO. The stock went down, then up, then split and they took their money and ran. The "already millionaires" became wealthier many times over. Where are they now? Not here but living very wealthy and happy as "our" company crumbles. I'm sure you've heard the days of the retiring multimillionaire manager are over.
I don't claim to be a financial wizard but I do remember the "Thrift Plan". You know, the thing that you were led to believe would be around for ever and was touted as a "nest egg" for everyone from the lowly PT'er up through the district manager and, historically, had very good returns. I'm sure there are SEC regulations on why the amount we could contribute to the thrift plan couldn't be raised considerably. The company would be falling over the money if that were possible.
To the posters that spoke of "talk about greed" and "....every man for himself average joe blow company", I think we all agree, unfortunately.
The company apparently thinks we are too stupid to figure this out.

 

[wkmac]

Some people think the hierarchy that was in place and whom made the decision to go public are the ones that really benefited from the IPO. The stock went down, then up, then split and they took their money and ran. The "already millionaires" became wealthier many times over. Where are they now? Not here but living very wealthy and happy as "our" company crumbles. I'm sure you've heard the days of the retiring multimillionaire manager are over.
I don't claim to be a financial wizard but I do remember the "Thrift Plan". You know, the thing that you were led to believe would be around for ever and was touted as a "nest egg" for everyone from the lowly PT'er up through the district manager and, historically, had very good returns. I'm sure there are SEC regulations on why the amount we could contribute to the thrift plan couldn't be raised considerably. The company would be falling over the money if that were possible.
To the posters that spoke of "talk about greed" and "....every man for himself average joe blow company", I think we all agree, unfortunately.
The company apparently thinks we are too stupid to figure this out.

Excellent Comments Trick!

For those who can rememeber, think about this before you cheer the IPO. On the day the stock went public, UPS got to a high of $77 and several years later it did venture into the mid $80's after a longhaul cycling up and down the low $50's to lower to mid $60's. Now what is the current stock price?

OK, go back to the spring of 1999' before the announcment of the IPO and where was the stock price? Nearing $50 a share so from that point pickup the stock keeping it private and come forward to today using historical trends and taking into account what the company did financially compared to prior historical results. I along with many others believe 2 things would have happened had the stock remained private. 1st) I believe the stock price would be nearly double what is is now or more likely we'd have expereinced 2- 2 for 1 stock splits instead of just one. If you reverse split back to the number of shares in early 99' that would mean a stock price of nearly $200 per share. 2nd) I think the stock remaining private and doing it's own deal would such a good investment that the employees, way more than they are, would be buying stock at every turn and specifically moreso in the employee payroll deduction plan. This would mean a regular influx of funds on a weekly basis that UPS could invest either by buying other companies or building further gains via other shortterm investments and when the time came to buy some company, they could pull the trigger.

All along, there would be a continuing employee investment in the company thereby in effect, buying loyality and giving the employee real incentive to go that extra mile and get some economic payback from it. I also believe that real UPSers instead of Corp. bean counters and Wall Street leeches would be running this company and you'd see far, far more success with things like PAS because the local management and employees could adapt to local conditions rather than being locked into rigid corp. guidelines as they try and force everyone to chase a specific number they think they can only get by their means of operation. I doubt very seriously that any of those people who are making these decisions have the brains to even know how to crankup a package car much less what is involved in the rest of the process. And thus we find ourselves where we are. Anybody really surprised at that?

I'm not! That's also the reason I stopped buying UPS stock about 2 1/2 years ago. FedEx has made me more money in the last 2 years than UPS has since we went IPO. Read it and weep folks, read it and weep!

 

[BrownBlackandBlue]

One of the managers suggested that on August 28th, 2007' that management and hourlie alike stage a one day strike together but our signs will read. "Bring Back Jim Casey! It worked for 100 years so let it work for 200!" I know the strike idea is a pipedream and said in a joking jest but I am going to post a sign in my car on that day in the parking lot expressing that very viewpoint.

I think it's an awesome idea myself. I hate it when I get out thought by a stinking management person

You want a "strike" that would get noticed, get everyone to sell their stock and put more voting power outside the company. Even at 10 to one voting rights between A and B shares, the board counts on a high level of stock ownership by Sups and Mgrs to maintain control of the company.

 

[tieguy]

hoser,
That's changing rapidly and will continue to do so IMO. When UPS started the multi-tier wage scale for PTer's in 1982' the difference in the $8 per hour start and the prior to 82' contract inside PT wage was in the $3 plus neighborhood. With the benefits, etc. you could still draw from the topside of workpool and get good people. As the years have gone by this equation has gottem more and more lopsided to the point today that we in many cases are drawing from the bottom with many a urban hub or center even having to adapt internal security measures as a result that it's alledged many inside PTers are in gangs and as well have criminal records and backgrounds.

Yep, keep hearing that have yet to see the gangs. Even in a huge hub like Burtonsville which is notorious for having problems keeping people. Dare I address this issue with out sounding like a racist and without implying you are a racist. The fact is twenty years ago when we had our pick of the labor pool we hired white male corn fed farm boys. Once we no longer had access to them we then had to take the time to learn about the other colors walking around out there. So now I work with the black and hispanic corn fed farm boys who also do a terrific job. That is one benifit of the lower wage scale that is often not discussed. When we are forced to hire from the inner urban areas we are also "forced" to learn a little about the different ethnicities and we are forced to learn to diversify and give everyone a chance to have a good UPS job. I do agree though that the starting wage scale needs to go up so we can remain competitive.