Where is my missing MIP

[Bucket of Boltz]

In your presentation from Jan 2008 - Dec 2014 the amount of compensation in MIP is $78,000 over 84 months and your point is that if MIP had not changed, it would have been $91,000 over that period.

If you extend the period for 3 months to Jan 2008 - Mar 2015 then the amount of compensation in MIP is $91,000 over 87 months. That's the 3 months loss that everyone else has been talking about.



Dec 2008 = 13000
Dec 2009 = 13000
Dec 2010 = 13000
Dec 2011 = 3000 (partial)
Mar 2012 = 10000 (rest of mip)
Mar 2013 = 13000 (if its still around)
Mar 2014 = 13000
Mar 2015 = 13000
---------------------
Total = 91,000 over 87 months

Well done Hoaxster. You are correct as usual.

 

[Catatonic]

Hoaxster, even if you use UPS own words to us and that is was delayed 3 months is just a part of the story. They have said we slightly missed our target goals and therefore got 95% of the target awards. If it was really just a delay, then they would have said 95% of target * 1.25 years so the MIP would have been higher.

Good point ... the date of award was delayed 3 months but also 3 months of MIP was lost.

 

[grinandbearit]

In your presentation from Jan 2008 - Dec 2014 the amount of compensation in MIP is $78,000 over 84 months and your point is that if MIP had not changed, it would have been $91,000 over that period.

If you extend the period for 3 months to Jan 2008 - Mar 2015 then the amount of compensation in MIP is $91,000 over 87 months. That's the 3 months loss that everyone else has been talking about.

Dec 2008 = 13000
Dec 2009 = 13000
Dec 2010 = 13000
Dec 2011 = 3000 (partial)
Mar 2012 = 10000 (rest of mip)
Mar 2013 = 13000 (if its still around)
Mar 2014 = 13000
Mar 2015 = 13000
---------------------
Total = 91,000 over 87 months

8 years times 12 months = 96. MIP is yearly. So again I'm missing my mip!

 

[Catatonic]

In your presentation from Jan 2008 - Dec 2014 the amount of compensation in MIP is $78,000 over 84 months and your point is that if MIP had not changed, it would have been $91,000 over that period.

If you extend the period for 3 months to Jan 2008 - Mar 2015 then the amount of compensation in MIP is $91,000 over 87 months. That's the 3 months loss that everyone else has been talking about.

Dec 2008 = 13000
Dec 2009 = 13000
Dec 2010 = 13000
Dec 2011 = 3000 (partial)
Mar 2012 = 10000 (rest of mip)
Mar 2013 = 13000 (if its still around)
Mar 2014 = 13000
Mar 2015 = 13000
---------------------
Total = 91,000 over 87 months

8 years times 12 months = 96. MIP is yearly. So again I'm missing my mip!

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him think.
You're just messing with me ...I like that in a person.

 

[beentheredonethat]

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him think.
You're just messing with me ...I like that in a person.

Hoaxster... Keep in mind, the reason that UPS did this primarily is so they can show the savings that grinandbearit listed. For two seperate years they had less expense in each year. This made the overall profit of the company better. If it is a gain for the company, it is a loss for us.
About 10 years or so, they did something similar. They used to have it so that vacations were earned in the prior year. My first year with UPS I was able to borrow a vacation from next year. Then after 10+ years of working and earning my vacation for the next year, UPS changes the accrual for vacation benefits for mgmt. Now, they come out and say vacations are earned in the same year. They essentially removed a cost line on the balance statement for the millions of dollars of accrued vacation time. Many people, like you, said well, we didn't really lose anything since we still get our vacation time, and UPS will still give us our vacation time when we retire. They only way we lose is if we leave the company. Make no mistake, although we still got our vacation time, all that accrual was taken away. One other thing. The MIP itself, it originally was 10% of profits for mgrs and up. Then they included the supvs not sure when, but well before I started. Then it went to 15% of profits wen into the MIP kitty. Now it's some made up metrics that change and god forbid if we have bad weather since that will affect MIP. They changed and reduced the MIP for UPS mgmt. I think that you're the one that is being led to water but refuses to think.

Let me ask you this. If next year they delay it another 3 months, and then another 3 months the following year and so on and so on. Will you still keep claiming it's only a delay?

How many times do you need to get enhanced before you realize it's not a good thing.

 

[Catatonic]

Hoaxster...

1) Keep in mind, the reason that UPS did this primarily is so they can show the savings that grinandbearit listed. For two seperate years they had less expense in each year. This made the overall profit of the company better. If it is a gain for the company, it is a loss for us.


2) About 10 years or so, they did something similar. They used to have it so that vacations were earned in the prior year. My first year with UPS I was able to borrow a vacation from next year. Then after 10+ years of working and earning my vacation for the next year, UPS changes the accrual for vacation benefits for mgmt. Now, they come out and say vacations are earned in the same year. They essentially removed a cost line on the balance statement for the millions of dollars of accrued vacation time.

3) Many people, like you, said well, we didn't really lose anything since we still get our vacation time, and UPS will still give us our vacation time when we retire. The only way we lose is if we leave the company. Make no mistake, although we still got our vacation time, all that accrual was taken away.

4) One other thing. The MIP itself, it originally was 10% of profits for mgrs and up. Then they included the supvs not sure when, but well before I started. Then it went to 15% of profits wen into the MIP kitty. Now it's some made up metrics that change and god forbid if we have bad weather since that will affect MIP. They changed and reduced the MIP for UPS mgmt.

5) Let me ask you this. If next year they delay it another 3 months, and then another 3 months the following year and so on and so on. Will you still keep claiming it's only a delay?

6) How many times do you need to get enhanced before you realize it's not a good thing.

I was responding to the OP assertion that we lost a year's MIP - that was wrong and all I have posted in this thread is related to that.

Go back and read what I posted ... slowly.

I am not an apologist for UPS and the changes made over the last 15 years.
I don't like them either but I can't do anything about it except quit or retire which means ... UPS wins.
I learned a long time ago to not get all emotional and go off saying stuff that is not true to try and embellish my point of view. It just doesn't work and generally makes the person look foolish. Hint, hint.

UPS changed and you have to adapt or you can become a shriveled up husk of the person you once were, embittered about things you cannot control.
The choice is yours.

Now for my response on each numbered item:

1) Yep, they took that money away from us - 3 months of MIP as I stated in an earlier post.

2) Yep, UPS looks better on the books and they ensure that management doesn't take all their vacation in the early part of the year and quit. Just like the RSUs.

3) Yep, pretty much the same as 2

4) Yep, and UPS suffers because the MIP is no longer a motivating factor at UPS. No one has any confidence in the metrics or in their ability to affect the criteria that drives MIP.
I personally feel they should roll the MIP into our salaries and only have MIP for Level 20's and above. Sort of like the 1/2 month salary.

5) Each year it will be a delay of 3 months and 1/4 of the MIP award that UPS took away from us. If they did this 3 more times then the original OP would be right.

6) I am very aware of all the "enhancements" coming from UPS. After the first Enhancement (Educational Reimbursements), I sent an e-mail to Allen Hill who was on the Management Committee over HR at that time and calmly and lucidly explained that the word "Enhancements" was causing UPS a lot of brand failure within the company, management was making jokes about it and it was causing UPS management to not respect the honesty and integrity of UPS. He replied and thanked me and then looked me up when he came to my building a couple of months later. He and I go back 25-30 years so I think he appreciated the feedback (not that he did not get plenty anyway). I noticed that the word enhancements has not been used to describe anymore "take aways" from UPS management since then. Allen retired recently.

 

[beentheredonethat]

6) I am very aware of all the "enhancements" coming from UPS. After the first Enhancement (Educational Reimbursements), I sent an e-mail to Allen Hill who was on the Management Committee over HR at that time and calmly and lucidly explained that the word "Enhancements" was causing UPS a lot of brand failure within the company, management was making jokes about it and it was causing UPS management to not respect the honesty and integrity of UPS. He replied and thanked me and then looked me up when he came to my building a couple of months later. He and I go back 25-30 years so I think he appreciated the feedback (not that he did not get plenty anyway). I noticed that the word enhancements has not been used to describe anymore "take aways" from UPS management since then. Allen retired recently.

You are right, they don't use the word enhancements anymore. Now the word is "Opportunity" Different word, same meaning.

 

[beentheredonethat]

2) Yep, UPS looks better on the books and they ensure that management doesn't take all their vacation in the early part of the year and quit. Just like the RSUs.

Hoaxster, For Vacations the issue is they took away something we already earned. Granted it doesn't matter if we stay with UPS til we retire.

It's ironic they sell the new portable Defined Contribution Pension plan for new supvs is good for them since they can take it to other companies when they leave, since that is what the younger generation want. At same time as you point out with RSU's they take away what the person earned if they leave early. So does UPS want us to stay or to leave? (I'm not under that plan, I'm too old for that).

 

[beentheredonethat]

I was responding to the OP assertion that we lost a year's MIP - that was wrong and all I have posted in this thread is related to that.

Go back and read what I posted ... slowly.

Technically you are right in that it is a delay. However the original poster is also right. I think you are ignoring the time value of money. If it is no big deal I've got a deal for you. Why don't I give you the "opportunity" (note not enhancement) to give me your net pay, I'll hold onto it and then give it back to you 3 months later. You'll still get your money and you won't be out anything. If I do that to enough people, I'll make a fortune on the interest I can earn on the 90 day float. Keep in mind, if it is good to UPS cash flow statement, it has to have an offset, that offset was the "Opportunity" we in mgmt received.

 

[beentheredonethat]

Hoaxster, Like I've said, I actually have learned to live with it. I've reduced hours to slightly above industry average. I give an output of work above industry average. I now have a life outside of work and have a lot more time with my family. You may not believe me, but I'm happy now, and I feel no guilt. However, what frustrates me is people who sugar coat the changes UPS made and say it really isn't a take away, or this isn't that bad etc etc.

 

[Catatonic]

You are right, they don't use the word enhancements anymore. Now the word is "Opportunity" Different word, same meaning.

Opportunity is an appropriate word.
As UPS adjusts compensation continuously downward, it is an opportunity for each person to adapt and assess staying with UPS (younger people) or older, long-term employees to adjust their number of hours worked, level of effort, etc. put into the job.

 

[Catatonic]

Technically you are right in that it is a delay. However the original poster is also right. I think you are ignoring the time value of money. If it is no big deal I've got a deal for you. Why don't I give you the "opportunity" (note not enhancement) to give me your net pay, I'll hold onto it and then give it back to you 3 months later. You'll still get your money and you won't be out anything. If I do that to enough people, I'll make a fortune on the interest I can earn on the 90 day float. Keep in mind, if it is good to UPS cash flow statement, it has to have an offset, that offset was the "Opportunity" we in mgmt received.

I never said it was just a delay ... in fact I pointed out that UPS withheld our compensation for 3 months.
The original OP was not correct because he said we lost a year of MIP which is incorrect.

We all just had this scenario played out as you describe with the MIP.
The MIP should have been 2.4 instead of 1.95. I don't like it, you don't like ... so what you going to do about it?

 

[Catatonic]

Hoaxster, Like I've said,

1) I actually have learned to live with it. I've reduced hours to slightly above industry average. I give an output of work above industry average. I now have a life outside of work and have a lot more time with my family. You may not believe me, but I'm happy now, and I feel no guilt.

2) However, what frustrates me is people who sugar coat the changes UPS made and say it really isn't a take away, or this isn't that bad etc etc.

1) Good for you. I believe because it comes across with a sense of Zen.
I sent out daily Zen sayings to the people in my group last year ... it helps one reach that inner peace and sense of perspective.

2) I personally have not heard that in my area. Everyone is aware, they don't like it and they are adapting.

 

[soberups]

Looks like the geniuses who have been doing the "time studies" of my route for the last 24 years have applied their expertise into figuring out how to "enhance" the MIP's for you management folks. I really love the term "enhancement"----its such a refined and elegant way to say you basically got fuc%#d over.

 

[Catatonic]

Looks like the geniuses who have been doing the "time studies" of my route for the last 24 years have applied their expertise into figuring out how to "enhance" the MIP's for you management folks. I really love the term "enhancement"----its such a refined and elegant way to say you basically got fuc%#d over.

Enhancements is so last decade ... this decade it is opportunity.

Quit living in the past.

Jethro Tull - Living In The Past 1969 - YouTube

 

[TSup]

The part of the MIP presentation that caught my eye is starting with this years MIP they are now called RPU's, and they do not pay out until Jan 15th from now on. So for a while we will get the rest of our RSU's on Oct 15th, and the new RPU's on Jan 15th. So they pushed that 3 months as well.

 

[Catatonic]

The part of the MIP presentation that caught my eye is starting with this years MIP they are now called RPU's, and they do not pay out until Jan 15th from now on. So for a while we will get the rest of our RSU's on Oct 15th, and the new RPU's on Jan 15th. So they pushed that 3 months as well.

So in 2016 there will be someone flagellating over not having an RSU for 2016. Great! Can't wait.

PS - Good catch, I did not see that.

 

[soberups]

Let me guess....the next time we go in for a physical the doctor will snap on his rubber glove, bend us over the table, and give us an "enhancement opportunity". He must work for IE on the side.

 

[FracusBrown]

Let me guess....the next time we go in for a physical the doctor will snap on his rubber glove, bend us over the table, and give us an "enhancement opportunity". He must work for IE on the side.

Three extra fingers for now on. Don't worry. It's really the same thing, it just seems worse becuse you dont understand the nature of the enhanacment.

 

[soberups]

Three extra fingers for now on. Don't worry. It's really the same thing, it just seems worse becuse you dont understand the nature of the enhanacment.

It seems worse to me when I notice halfway thru the procedure that there is one hand on each of my shoulders.