who are you going to vote for and why

[mamirk69]

Well, I finally made it thorugh the thread. I must add one thing though. nobody came out and cited the laguage that was changed after the ratification. Just a refresher, the 9.5 language was change after ratification. That language definately favored the company! That action alone valaidates to the possibility of renegotiating contracts before experation.


I almost forgot, someone one here stated that there has only been one work stoppage (strike) in the past 100 years. Well, I must dissagree. I remeber the oldtimers telling me, that back in 1976 there was a strike against UPS. I can't remember how long they said it was. Maybe it was a couple of months but don't hold me to it. Anyhow, after it was settled the Union failed to make any gains and settled on what the company offered to begin with.


Hoffa claims that surepost is creating jobs. I hate to say it but it is. The problem is those jobs are part time not full time! I really do not understand why he would settle for part time union dues when he could be collecting Full time dues? Just the other day we had a driver deliver 32 bags of small parcels to 1 post office. Those who who have seen these bags know they can hold many pacakges. I have talked to many drivers that deliver to post offices withing our coverage area. after adding up the estimates they have given me, we are talking about 800-1000 packages a day. So ups hires one partime to help bag up the pagakes and the unions gets 20.00 a month for dues (new hire) instead of 7-10 drivers working to deliver those packages and collecting $490-$900 a month for dues. I almost forgot the new hire is not in the union yet! Ok I'm done ranting!

A contract can change at a drop of a dime with or without members consent but the union must agree as the bargaining unit negotiator. Call your NLRB in your area they will tell you the same. I thought I mentioned that in this thread oh well.

 

[705red]

I guess you forgot UPS wages, H&W and Pension contributions are up when you threw that slam in about IBT salaries. You blame Hoffa, but vote for Hall. WTF??? Hall negotiated the deals you criticize! I applaud you for paying dues just to vote, I mean that's great stuff, but much of what you attack Hoffa for is off. Hoffa did keep many of Carey's guys, in important positions no less. He may be a lousy leader but he has some ability. Give him a little credit. Anyway I'd vote for Sandy only because she's the brightest of the bunch. If you have a choice, vote for the smartest one.

Wages are up? Wages dont mean squat whne your laid off! When you cant enforce the contract language you have what good are wages? I as well as my other UPS friends earned every penny oft that money when we are in the trucks or working the building sorts. I have not seen anyone worth $400,000 in the IBT, have you? Hall showed at one time he had some stones, and with Hoffa listening to the outsiders over Hall im giving him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[frank75]

Wages are up? Wages dont mean squat whne your laid off! When you cant enforce the contract language you have what good are wages? I as well as my other UPS friends earned every penny oft that money when we are in the trucks or working the building sorts. I have not seen anyone worth $400,000 in the IBT, have you? Hall showed at one time he had some stones, and with Hoffa listening to the outsiders over Hall im giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Yes, Red, wages ARE up! Every year Hoffa's been in office UPS wages have improved. You might not like reading that but it is a fact. From what I understand opportunities for full time laid off employees have also improved. These are things negotiated under Hoffa, things he is resposible for. UPS cutting employees is a company decision, not a union negotiation. Enforcing contract language starts with your local. You were fortunate to have a leader that got much more from UPS than many of his peers. R.I.P. Steve!
Whether you earn every penny is subjective. What is fact is you're being paid a wage negotiated by others whom you feel are overpaid. Hoffa's a CEO of a 1.3 million member organization, with thousands of contracts and many divisions. I don't know if he "earns" his salary. I do know it's no fun living out of a suitcase 40 weeks a year, being away from your family, eating crappy restaurant food. Maybe Hoffa's overpaid, when Sandy wins she'll take...say 200K. Is that too much? Really Red, how much difference will it make? Will UPS hire more people if volume continues to drop because there's a new Teamster GP? Fat chance.

 

[705red]

Yes, Red, wages ARE up! Every year Hoffa's been in office UPS wages have improved. You might not like reading that but it is a fact. From what I understand opportunities for full time laid off employees have also improved. These are things negotiated under Hoffa, things he is resposible for. UPS cutting employees is a company decision, not a union negotiation. Enforcing contract language starts with your local. You were fortunate to have a leader that got much more from UPS than many of his peers. R.I.P. Steve!
Whether you earn every penny is subjective. What is fact is you're being paid a wage negotiated by others whom you feel are overpaid. Hoffa's a CEO of a 1.3 million member organization, with thousands of contracts and many divisions. I don't know if he "earns" his salary. I do know it's no fun living out of a suitcase 40 weeks a year, being away from your family, eating crappy restaurant food. Maybe Hoffa's overpaid, when Sandy wins she'll take...say 200K. Is that too much? Really Red, how much difference will it make? Will UPS hire more people if volume continues to drop because there's a new Teamster GP? Fat chance.

Volume is down because the IBT is giving our work away to the post office. We are lucky here in 705 that we enforce our own contract with our own panels and arbitration system. But dong both of those also has a huge price tag behind it. If the IBT could enforce the contract instead of holding hundreds of cases at every National panel it would help every Teamster local. If they give a decision on one grievance, that grievance would help to settle dozens of the same grievance immediately.

I would say that $200,000 is still to high. Im a simple man and I dont look to get rich off the backs of the hard working men and woman of this Union, and no one else should. You keep running back to the wages, yes they are up. But it doesnt mean anything to the people across this country that have been laid off or displaced with a pay cut. We are lucky here that we changed our language so that any FT employee still keeps their hourly wage. Parts of the country are not this lucky and members have been hurting for years because of simple contract enforcement by the National panel.!!!

If we elect a GP that wants to enforce the contract its a huge difference. If you have been around 705 for a while you have seen how things have changed over the last 10 years. It isnt easy to break UPS of their bad habits, but it can be done.

 

[The Other Side]

hall also has allowed the panels to lock our grievances and put them on hold,stands silent while harassment is at an all time high and allowed 22.3 to be abused along with more than i care to type out.what im saying is he had a chance to help us and didnt.sandy cant grow a set for him.she might do a good job herself if elected but that slate is a sellout slate.

Why do you all blame HALL for panels getting "LOCKED UP"?

Thats Ron Careys system he put in place. They have been known as the "deadlock committees" since 1997.

When you have equal amount of union people on one side (3) and and equal amount of UPS people on the other side (3) what do you think the outcome is going to be?

Its always 3 -3. Its a dumb system, its the reason my local does not participate in this nonsense. In 396, we have local arbitration if an issue cant be settled through the normal process. That arbitration must take place within 30 days and the member knows the outcome in less than 5 days afterwards.

All the locals in the country should go to this process versus the "deadlock committees" that Carey setup.

Stop crying about the "deadlock committees" and suggest to your local to negotiate for "local arbitration". I dont hear Sandy Pope talking about fixing this system either, but then again, she doesnt know a thing about how our system works.

Peace.

 

[mamirk69]

Why do you all blame HALL for panels getting "LOCKED UP"?

Thats Ron Careys system he put in place. They have been known as the "deadlock committees" since 1997.

When you have equal amount of union people on one side (3) and and equal amount of UPS people on the other side (3) what do you think the outcome is going to be?

Its always 3 -3. Its a dumb system, its the reason my local does not participate in this nonsense. In 396, we have local arbitration if an issue cant be settled through the normal process. That arbitration must take place within 30 days and the member knows the outcome in less than 5 days afterwards.

All the locals in the country should go to this process versus the "deadlock committees" that Carey setup.

Stop crying about the "deadlock committees" and suggest to your local to negotiate for "local arbitration". I dont hear Sandy Pope talking about fixing this system either, but then again, she doesnt know a thing about how our system works.

Peace.

So your local is able to settle national grievance matters in local arbitration if both sides do not agree? Interesting.

 

[Babagounj]

tos, nice to see that you finally found someone other than GWB to place the blame on.

And as usual you have an endless useless points to talk about.
You are quite the puppet.
Always slinging out the same garbage while never actually solving anything.
In your world you would continue to vote for the same people over and over again because you think someday they will actually learn from all the years of their mistakes and finally do the right thing, no matter how many people have to suffer for their foolish .

 

[hypocrisy]

Why do you all blame HALL for panels getting "LOCKED UP"?

Thats Ron Careys system he put in place. They have been known as the "deadlock committees" since 1997.

When you have equal amount of union people on one side (3) and and equal amount of UPS people on the other side (3) what do you think the outcome is going to be?

Its always 3 -3. Its a dumb system, its the reason my local does not participate in this nonsense. In 396, we have local arbitration if an issue cant be settled through the normal process. That arbitration must take place within 30 days and the member knows the outcome in less than 5 days afterwards.

All the locals in the country should go to this process versus the "deadlock committees" that Carey setup.

Stop crying about the "deadlock committees" and suggest to your local to negotiate for "local arbitration". I dont hear Sandy Pope talking about fixing this system either, but then again, she doesnt know a thing about how our system works.

Peace.

You are 100% right.

All this noise is just from TDU-ers and clueless APWA fans.

 

[Babagounj]

crowbar, how long has Carey been out of office ?
Yet jr never changed the policy .
Makes one wonder if he is looking out for what's best for the members or just himself ?

 

[bigblu 2 you]

Why do you all blame HALL for panels getting "LOCKED UP"?

Thats Ron Careys system he put in place. They have been known as the "deadlock committees" since 1997.

When you have equal amount of union people on one side (3) and and equal amount of UPS people on the other side (3) what do you think the outcome is going to be?

Its always 3 -3. Its a dumb system, its the reason my local does not participate in this nonsense. In 396, we have local arbitration if an issue cant be settled through the normal process. That arbitration must take place within 30 days and the member knows the outcome in less than 5 days afterwards.

All the locals in the country should go to this process versus the "deadlock committees" that Carey setup.

Stop crying about the "deadlock committees" and suggest to your local to negotiate for "local arbitration". I dont hear Sandy Pope talking about fixing this system either, but then again, she doesnt know a thing about how our system works.

Peace.

when hall was with carey our local never lost at a panel except for a few blatant violations and as far as i know never deadlocked a grievance.since hoffa and hall have been there we have had a 50-50 rate and we have lost some very win-able,and almost comical grievances.we also work for "local arbitration"but when the people across the table cross their arms and tell you" no,send it to the panel"and smile,well the message is clear.sell-outs.we have some new guys at our local and they are turning things around but i will tell you this,hoffa and hall have not made this easy.

 

[mamirk69]

You are 100% right.

All this noise is just from TDU-ers and clueless APWA fans.

This gets so old and lacks any insight. Lost soul.

 

[The Other Side]

So your local is able to settle national grievance matters in local arbitration if both sides do not agree? Interesting.

We dont have national issues. We dont let things get that far. Only weak locals let things get to a point where they need a national grievance proceedure.

peace.

 

[mamirk69]

We dont have national issues. We dont let things get that far. Only weak locals let things get to a point where they need a national grievance proceedure.

peace.

So let me get this straight because this is very amazing to me, the UPS in Southern California is willing to settle the grievances even though Atlanta or maybe known to you as corporate tell them otherwise? Southern California did not have any problems with 9.5 language or elimination of 22.3 jobs due to moving to another classification?

 

[frank75]

Volume is down because the IBT is giving our work away to the post office. We are lucky here in 705 that we enforce our own contract with our own panels and arbitration system. But dong both of those also has a huge price tag behind it. If the IBT could enforce the contract instead of holding hundreds of cases at every National panel it would help every Teamster local. If they give a decision on one grievance, that grievance would help to settle dozens of the same grievance immediately.

I would say that $200,000 is still to high. Im a simple man and I dont look to get rich off the backs of the hard working men and woman of this Union, and no one else should. You keep running back to the wages, yes they are up. But it doesnt mean anything to the people across this country that have been laid off or displaced with a pay cut. We are lucky here that we changed our language so that any FT employee still keeps their hourly wage. Parts of the country are not this lucky and members have been hurting for years because of simple contract enforcement by the National panel.!!!

If we elect a GP that wants to enforce the contract its a huge difference. If you have been around 705 for a while you have seen how things have changed over the last 10 years. It isnt easy to break UPS of their bad habits, but it can be done.

The IBT doesn't give any of UPS's work to anybody. UPS matches a plan FEDEX concocted. If they didn't, there would be more layoffs. Read the paper, listen to your radio, were in a recession. Don't blame the IBT for everything. I like Sandy. I hope she wins, and I don't think 200K for GP is extravagant. I agree with your perspective on the panels being wishy washy and not deciding cases in front of them. You're also correct that arbitration systems are expensive. I hope whoever wins the GP race gives this "system" their full attention.

 

[upsers22.3]

make sure every one vote