Why are the negotiations so private?

[Tony Q]

with 25 years of federal oversight for mafia influence, murders, bribes, extortion and etc. Trust. Riiiight

Are you what they call an internet troll? Just asking for a friend!

 

[Bubblehead]

bubblehead is not such a bubblehead. now i understand.

It's a nickname dating back to second grade.
Whether it was prudent, is still an arbitrary determination.

 

[Bubblehead]

people trust you to do your job. trust these people to do theirs.

but i wish there was more transparency .

with 25 years of federal oversight for mafia influence, murders, bribes, extortion and etc. Trust. Riiiight

Are you what they call an internet troll? Just asking for a friend!

As much as I wish it wasn't, this is what we are trying to overcome as a union with today's UPSer.

 

[PT Car Washer]

Why would it???

They still have to open a piece a mail....and read it's contents in order to vote.

Do you work in one of the one belt centers. I work in a Hub with hundreds of PT who are very much interested in the contract and do vote. Most have more at stake then a bunch of $100k/yr delivery drivers.

 

[Blackstream]

Do you work in one of the one belt centers. I work in a Hub with hundreds of PT who are very much interested in the contract and do vote. Most have more at stake then a bunch of $100k/yr delivery drivers.

The wait for FT jobs is so long at this point, I would not be surprised if there's a huge population of voting PTers that have PT wages as a priority for their vote, since they're forced to wait 10+ years for an inside combo job to open up. The people that vote are the people that are planning on sticking around, in general, and if you've been a part timer for 8+ years, you're probably planning on sticking around.

 

[Bad Gas!]

Here's my take, for what it's worth???....and in order to make my point I will use a recent life scenario as an analogy.

My wife accompanied me to test drive a used vehicle at a dealership last weekend, a car we were considering for a third vehicle, as my oldest daughter just got her temps and needed a smaller vehicle to learn on and eventually drive when she gets her license.

On the way there, I told my wife to please walk away anytime the sales people and I started talking price or terms, if the test drive went well.

She agreed, knowing that she tends to be a bit impetuous, and myself being a better "negotiator".

This system worked for us, because we discussed what we wanted in this car going in.....for this analogy, let's call these needs "proposals".

Turned out this vehicle was everything we were looking for in regards to our "proposals", with the price being initially too high, but eventually "negotiated" to an acceptable number, although there were a few minor mechanical issues that needed to be addressed.

When the dealership and myself could not come to an agreement on the necessary repairs, I decided to walk.....which is an "impass".

This is when I owed it to my wife a detailed explain of my position, accompanied by her agreeing or disagreeing that we should walk....the equivalent of a "strike vote".

Eventually, with my wife's blessing (ratified strike vote), we left and went home.
Ultimately, the dealership called us back and met all but one of my conditions, to which I considered "reasonable".....which is a "tentative agreement".

I then took this "tentative agreement" to my wife for her approval as well.....(a "bargaining unit vote").

When she gave her approval, we had a deal....a "ratified contract".

In the end, had I (the negotiator) included my wife (the bargaining unit) in every aspect of this process, she would have likely fell victim to many of the dealership's (the Company) various sales ploys, misdirection, and innuendo, severely compromising "the deal".

But as it turned out, our system earned us a better deal.

It's never good to have "too many cooks in the kitchen".


Btw, the only gripe I have to date in these UPS negotiations, is that we didn't get a detailed explaination as to why we were asked to give "The Committee" strike authorization.

The IBT simply has not earned this type of carte blanche consideration in any other recent UPS negotiations, but they got it anyway.....I certainly hope they don't make us sorry, again.

With this in mind, I will wait for a "tentative agreement" before I draw any conclusions or pimp a no vote.

TMI!!!

 

[Bubblehead]

Do you work in one of the one belt centers. I work in a Hub with hundreds of PT who are very much interested in the contract and do vote. Most have more at stake then a bunch of $100k/yr delivery drivers.

I work in a hub with 3 package centers with 220+ package car drivers, not sure how many feeder drivers and 22.3 employees, and 4 sorts worth of part timers that run around the clock.

I would say 500+ part timers would be a conservative estimate and would be shocked if more than 100 voted.....for anything.

 

[PT Car Washer]

I work in a hub with 3 package centers with 220+ package car drivers, not sure how many feeder drivers and 22.3 employees, and 4 sorts worth of part timers that run around the clock.

I would say 500+ part timers would be a conservative estimate and would be shocked if more than 100 voted.....for anything.

I have trouble believing less then 100 vote. Do you ever talk to PT employees about the issues or do you just assume they don't vote?

 

[Bubblehead]

I have trouble believing less then 100 vote. Do you ever talk to PT employees about the issues or do you just assume they don't vote?

I wrote down the names of the 900 people out of roughly 4000 that chose to vote in our last Local election and cross referenced them with the seniority lists that I was a privy to....and very few UPS part timers voted.

I often handbill at the gate and had a contract parking lot meeting just yesterday, while 9 out of 10 part timers blew by us and declined to take a flyer.

So yes, I certainly feel qualified to make the statements I made.

 

[dogs.bite.me]

The UPS Rising app, and web site were set up to inform the members. They were originally set up by Sean and his Rain man. I don't believe that certain information can be put out there, so I can't say for sure that it's a bust. I know the a lot of members go there for information, and it is informative. There are some members that crave more information, kinda like a Fox News mentality. This is where there is the disconnect. I don't believe You can ever make the majority of members happy, so I don't know the answer.




When it's all announced I believe if you look at the contract as a whole you will be pleasantly surprised. This is just my opinion.

I this this is Dennis Taylors wife

 

[BigUnionGuy]

I wrote down the names of the 900 people out of roughly 4000 that chose to vote in our last Local election

I'm assuming that was during the vote count.

I can't see your Local, just providing that information.



-Bug-

 

[Pizza]

Whats the guess on how far out we are from seeing something?

Can we get the first vote done by the 8/1 if we have it the first week of July?

 

[Bubblehead]

I'm assuming that was during the vote count.

I can't see your Local, just providing that information.



-Bug-

Yes.

The Election Committee first alphabetizes the returned sealed ballots, then distributes them to 6 tables, where they verify eligibility by calling out the name on the envelope, one at a time, while another committee person cross references.

We are permitted to observe, so I figured why not write down the names?

Of course your boy Sam protested, to no avail as usual, at a significant cost to the membership I'm sure.

We also did it during the Delegates Election.
Good data.



~Bbbl~™

 

[BigUnionGuy]

The Election Committee first alphabetizes the returned sealed ballots, then distributes them to 6 tables, where they verify eligibility by calling out the name one envelope at a time, while another committee person cross references.

How did I know that ?

We are permitted to observe, so I figured why not write down the names?

Atta boy.

I'm impressed, you took the initiative.

Of course your boy Sam protested, to no avail as usual, at a significant cost to the membership I'm sure.

My boy.... Sam ?

He's your Local's problem, not mine.


That hurts. Just go ahead and punch me in the groin.

It would be less painful.





-Bug-

 

[Bubblehead]

My boy.... Sam ?

He's your Local's problem, not mine.

He's barely a blip on the radar anymore, as I lanced that boil in the last election.
I felt it was my responsibility to, after helping perpetuate his tenure as our ST in the previous election.
I knew better, but did so for selfish personal ambitions.

There's a small amount of puss still seeping from the remaining open wound, but is healing over nicely.

In the end, although I'm sure he will again protest and file frivolous charges, he will be deemed ineligible for the next election and disappear into obscurity, where he belongs.



~Bbbl~™

 

[PT Car Washer]

I wrote down the names of the 900 people out of roughly 4000 that chose to vote in our last Local election and cross referenced them with the seniority lists that I was a privy to....and very few UPS part timers voted.

I often handbill at the gate and had a contract parking lot meeting just yesterday, while 9 out of 10 part timers blew by us and declined to take a flyer.

So yes, I certainly feel qualified to make the statements I made.

That is it? 900 out of 4000? And trying to avoid the vultures pushing their own agenda while ignoring PT issues? Sorry, not buying it.

 

[Bubblehead]

That is it? 900 out of 4000? And trying to avoid the vultures pushing their own agenda while ignoring PT issues? Sorry, not buying it.

Don't be sorry, as I am not trying to sell you anything?

Those numbers from our last election are right at or near par for local elections nationwide.

For some reason you seem to find the notion that "part time employees at UPS don't vote" to be offensive or counter-intuitive, but it is well documented and the absolute truth.

This is easily validated by the situation part timers find themselves in today, as the vast majority of the bargaining unit at UPS.

If and when part timers rise up, they could write their own ticket, guaranteed.

 

[wilberforce15]

For some reason you seem to find the notion that "part time employees at UPS don't vote" to be offensive or counter-intuitive, but it is well documented and the absolute truth.

This is easily validated by the situation part timers find themselves in today, as the vast majority of the bargaining unit at UPS.

If and when part timers rise up, they could write their own ticket, guaranteed.

The union gave them a throwaway PT job, and then the employees treat it like a throwaway PT job. Nobody's going to take their personal time or interest to attend meetings and vote with $10/hr, no benefits, no paid days, etc. If they are "successful," what exactly do they get? Nothing. Even the health insurance isn't that big of a deal to young guys.

They don't feel or act invested because they aren't invested in.

I think everyone recognizes that PTers don't vote and aren't active. That's not offensive. It's plain true. The question is whether that's their stupid, entitled fault or the fault of a union that gave them a crap job for years. I'm as active as I can be, but when I talk to a new employee, I cannot make any kind of decent case that they should care about the union. They get to pay money for nothing.

 

[PT Car Washer]

The union gave them a throwaway PT job, and then the employees treat it like a throwaway PT job. Nobody's going to take their personal time or interest to attend meetings and vote with $10/hr, no benefits, no paid days, etc. If they are "successful," what exactly do they get? Nothing. Even the health insurance isn't that big of a deal to young guys.

They don't feel or act invested because they aren't invested in.

I think everyone recognizes that PTers don't vote and aren't active. That's not offensive. It's plain true. The question is whether that's their stupid, entitled fault or the fault of a union that gave them a crap job for years. I'm as active as I can be, but when I talk to a new employee, I cannot make any kind of decent case that they should care about the union. They get to pay money for nothing.

All I know is that all of the PT I interact with are very much a part of the Union and do vote. And if there was such a PT revolt it would be put down very quickly by the Local and the International. Just look how they imposed the last contract when the PT at Local 89 stood up.

 

[wilberforce15]

All I know is that all of the PT I interact with are very much a part of the Union and do vote. And if there was such a PT revolt it would be put down very quickly by the Local and the International. Just look how they imposed the last contract when the PT at Local 89 stood up.

That seems like a pretty small minority of places. But that's awesome.

In my building which has probably 400 PTers, we might have 10 or 20 who do anything with the union, and maybe only 30 who are members at all. And they all have over a decade in seniority and it definitely skews toward the bums and troublemakers who regularly need union intervention to keep their jobs. It's just understood around here that people join the union when they go FT.