Why Obama Supporters Don't Care About Radical Associations

tieguy

Banned
October 12, 2008


BY ABDON M. PALLASCH AND CHRIS FUSCO Staff Reporters
John McCain is hammering Barack Obama about his ties to Chicago educator Bill Ayers, co-founder of the Weather Underground, a group that used violence in the 1960s and 1970s to try to end the Vietnam War.
For a week now, the McCain-Palin ticket has been making Ayers an issue. And the attacks continued Friday, with an ad that calls Ayers the "leader of a terrorist group that bombed the U.S. Capitol." The ad also says "Obama's first campaign was launched at a gathering at Mr. Ayers' home."

Bill Ayers has declined to comment to the Sun-Times or any other media since Sen. Hillary Clinton first raised his name in the Democratic primary.
(Sun-Times files)

But is everything the Republicans are saying true? Here's a look at the Obama-Ayers relationship.
1. Was Ayers the leader of a terrorist group?
The FBI labeled the Weather Underground "a domestic terrorist group" whose members took credit for bombings of the U.S. Capitol, Pentagon and other government buildings. The bombings were designed to cause property damage, not hurt people. Ayers never has been accused of killing anybody.
But three Weather Underground members accidentally killed themselves while making bombs in New York City in 1970. In 1981, two police officers and a security guard were killed when other members of the group committed an armed robbery.
2. How long was Ayers "underground"?
Ayers and his wife, Weather Underground member Bernardine Dohrn, were on the lam 10 years before surrendering in 1980.
3. Were they ever convicted of "terrorism" charges?
No. Ayers faced federal riot and bombing-conspiracy charges, but those charges were dropped because of illegal wiretaps, break-ins and mail interceptions by authorities. Dohrn served less than a year behind bars for non-bombing activities tied to the group.
4. How are Ayers and Dohrn viewed now?
At least before this campaign, they were mainly seen as respected college professors. After getting his doctorate in education at Columbia University, Ayers joined the University of Illinois, where he gained a national reputation pushing innovative -- some say controversial -- approaches to educating at-risk youth. Dohrn has a national reputation for pushing reforms of the juvenile justice system. Ayers has published 15 books. He sits on civic boards with Mayor Daley, who in 1997 awarded Ayers the city's "Citizen of the Year" award. Ayers and Dohrn live in Hyde Park, not far from the Obamas.
5. So how well do Ayers and Obama know each other?
Ayers and Obama served on separate boards associated with the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, an education-reform group that Obama began chairing in March 1995 and continued to work with through 2000. Ayers served on the Chicago School Reform Collaborative, which made recommendations to the board on grant awards during those years. Ayers and Obama occasionally would see each other in those roles.
Also, Ayers served alongside Obama between December 1999 and December 2002 on the board of the not-for-profit Woods Fund of Chicago. That board met four times a year, and members would see each other at dinners the group hosted.
The RNC's statement that "Obama's first campaign was launched at a gathering at Mr. Ayers' home" stems from a 1995 "meet-and-greet" coffee that Ayers and Dohrn held for Obama at their home when Obama was making his first run for the Illinois Senate. Obama's presidential campaign has described the event as an opportunity for Ayers and Dohrn to introduce Obama to their neighbors.
In 2001, Ayers gave $200 to Obama's campaign. A year ago, the two met walking through the neighborhood where they both live.
6. How does Ayers respond to the Republicans' charges?
He doesn't. He has declined to comment to the Sun-Times or any other media since Sen. Hillary Clinton first raised him as a potential problem for Obama in April during the Democratic primary.
7. What does Obama say about Ayers?
During a primary debate, Obama underplayed his relationship with Ayers: "This is a guy who lives in my neighborhood, who's a professor of English in Chicago, who I know, and who I have not received some official endorsement from," Obama said. "He's not somebody who I exchange ideas from on a regular basis. The notion that somehow, as a consequence of me knowing somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago when I was 8 years old somehow reflects on me and my values, doesn't make much sense."
8. Is it fair for McCain to criticize Obama on this issue?
Factcheck.org has this take: "Voters may differ in how they see Ayers, or how they see Obama's interactions with him. We're making no judgment calls on those matters. What we object to are the McCain-Palin campaign's attempts to sway voters -- in ads and on the stump -- with false and misleading statements about the relationship, which was never very close. And Ayers is more than a former 'terrorist,' he's also a well-known figure in the field of education."
9. Has Ayers ever apologized for what he did with the Weather Underground?
Not exactly. In 2001, Ayers told the Sun-Times he regretted that "people were hurt, that three of my dear friends were killed, that we were stupid, immature, intolerant and unwise. I regret that I hurt people's feelings." He did not regret "throwing myself as wholeheartedly as I could figure out into opposition to war and to the system of racial injustice."
A review of Ayers' memoir Fugitive Days that appeared in the New York Times on Sept. 11, 2001, quoted Ayers saying, "I don't regret setting bombs. I feel we didn't do enough." Three days after the terrorist attacks, Ayers clarified: "My memoir is, from start to finish, a condemnation of terrorism . . ."
10. Are all former alleged terrorists/radicals shunned?
No. Former IRA bomber Gerry Adams is welcomed at the White House as a peacemaker. Former PLO leader Yasser Arafat was too. Former Students for a Democratic Society member and Ayers friend Tom Hayden was elected to the California State Assembly. Former Black Panther Bobby Rush is a congressman representing Chicago, as is former Puerto Rican independence activist Luis Gutierrez.

wow defending Ayers? Looks like someone just went off the deep end. How about defending Osama next to give us some balance.:happy-very:
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
I know its tough for you to realize your on the losing side of an argument.

But the sooner you come to accept the fact that no matter what "we" all post or say, McCain has ZERO chance of winning the White House.

I can accept facts for what they are, and in America today, Bill Ayers is an educator and college professor.

If you can prove otherwise, then that should make you happy.
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
! Believes abortion is ok.

And here you have someone that thinks the government has the right to tell a woman what to do with her body! You complain about to much government but than you ok this!

Why should a woman who has been raped have to look at this child that she did not want and have to re-live the rape over and over everyday of her life?

If these are you beliefs i hope your sister never gets raped violently, but dont forget to pick up the birthday present for your bastard nephew.
 

tieguy

Banned
I know its tough for you to realize your on the losing side of an argument.

But the sooner you come to accept the fact that no matter what "we" all post or say, McCain has ZERO chance of winning the White House.

I can accept facts for what they are, and in America today, Bill Ayers is an educator and college professor.

If you can prove otherwise, then that should make you happy.

Let me be a little more direct. forgive me if I am blunt. You are definitely not brownshark since BS never had your style.

Have you ever posted here under any other ID's?
 

tieguy

Banned
! Believes abortion is ok.

And here you have someone that thinks the government has the right to tell a woman what to do with her body! You complain about to much government but than you ok this!

Why should a woman who has been raped have to look at this child that she did not want and have to re-live the rape over and over everyday of her life?

If these are you beliefs i hope your sister never gets raped violently, but dont forget to pick up the birthday present for your bastard nephew.

Its really not that hard to understand. If you honestly believe that life starts at conception then you have to believe that aborting that life is murder. If you condone murder then where does it stop? Perhaps we may some day decide we should kill anyone with red hair?
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Bernadine Dohrn is credited with this little comment about the Tate/LaBianca killings by the Manson crowd....

"Dig it! First they killed those pigs and then they put a fork in their bellies. Wild!"

So, she thinks the killings were "wild". That makes her an idiot in my book!!

Both her & her hubby teach in our colleges.......no wonder college students have their heads you know where!!
 

1989

Well-Known Member
McCain and Palin along with there devoted followers just hate people who hang around with terrorists! I wonder if they'd hate Ronald Reagan?
« From Clarion: A Protocols of the Elders of Islam?


Reagan Palled Around with Terrorists, Too

Now that McCain and Palin are doing everything they can to wrap themselves in the legacy of Ronald Reagan, it’s worth noting who was “palling around with terrorists” when the Gipper was at the height of his powers after his 1984 reelection and before the Iran-Contra scandal. It was back in 1985 that McCain’s and Palin’s hero hosted Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, then a key Mujahadin leader (and major Islamo-fascist, as some might call him), at the White House. (Hekmatyar is in the foreground on the far left in the photo.)

Hekmatyar, who, among other things, has voiced his admiration for Osama bin Laden, is now one of the trio of key warlords — they also include the Taliban’s Mullah Mohammed Omar and Jalaluddin Haqqani — who have been named as Public Enemies Number One by the Pentagon in Afghanistan. Here’s how the Los Angeles Times described Reagan’s guest in a recent article:
“Hekmatyar, who is based north of Peshawar in Pakistan, is the most mercurial of the three. As an engineering student at Kabul University in the 1970s, he was accused of throwing acid in the faces of women who did not wear a veil. He became one of the most effective mujahedin leaders in the war against the Soviets during the 1980s, leading a group that received millions in CIA funding.
“The CIA and U.S. special operations teams, hoping to turn him again, have approached Hekmatyar in recent years through intermediaries, according to U.S. sources. Last year, he was also contacted by representatives of Afghan President Hamid Karzai. The talks went nowhere, according to Afghan news reports.
“Paul Pillar, former deputy chief of the CIA’s counter-terrorism center, described Hekmatyar as a “very ambitious, very strong-willed, vicious sort of guy. Unless he were directly, physically put out of commission, he is going to continue to vie for power.”
“Hekmatyar’s Hezb-i-Islami group was accused of an ambush in August near Kabul that killed 10 French paratroopers.”
It’s always useful to recall the Reaganite roots of the “global war on terror,” at least in Southwest Asia, to gain some historical perspective about the “exceptional” nature of U.S. foreign policy and its status as “the greatest force for good in this world,” as Palin put it last weekend at the same California rally where she accused Sen. Obama of “palling around with terrorists.” Different times, different circumstances, of course. But Hekmatyar’s background and viciousness were well known at the time of his White House reception.
McCain, who was elected to the House of Representatives in 1982, was, of course, an enthusiastic supporter of the Afghan “freedom fighters” and the “Reagan Doctrine” that supported them and other insurgent groups in countries Washington considered to be Soviet clients in the 1980s. As reported in a very good article by the Associated Press earlier this week, McCain served on the board of advisers of the U.S. section of the World Anti-Communist League (WACL), the Phoenix-based U.S. Council for World Freedom, through at least 1984 and, according to his account, asked to have his name removed from the Council’s letterhead in 1986 (presumably just as the Iran-Contra scandal, in which the Council’s chief, ret. Gen. John Singlaub, played a key role), was breaking. As noted by AP, States News Service placed McCain at a Washington Council event that honored one of Hekmatyar’s comrades in 1985.
In an excellent 1986 book by Scott and Jon Lee Anderson, Inside the League: The Shocking Expose of How Terrorists, Nazis and Latin American Death Squads Have Infiltrated the World Anti-Communist League, the two brothers report on WACL’s September 1985 meeting in Dallas in which, among many other people with rather questionable backgrounds, participants included Mario Sandoval Alarcon, the head of Guatemala’s long-ruling “party of organized violence” (MLN); Yves Gignac, a former chief of the French Secret Army Organizations (OAS) “who spent five years in prison for his role in an assassination plot against Charles de Gaulle;” Chirila Ciuntu, an official of the Romania’s Iron Guard during World War II, then being sought for war crimes; and John Kosiak, a top Nazi collaborator in Byelorussia at the same time. “Yaroslav Stetsko, the Ukrainian who presided over the massacre of 7,000 Jews in the city of Lvov, was represented by his wife, Slava.” So far as I know, McCain did not attend, and Singlaub told AP the congressman and future senator and presidential candidate was never an active member. At the same time, Singlaub said he had no recollection of McCain ever resigning from the board, and there is no published account that I could find in which McCain expressed regret for his association with the group.


These arn't personal friends. Looks like Reagan is doing official presidential duties. Did Reagan hang around with these people on his personal time before he became president? I don't believe Carter hung around his terrorists accuantences before he was president.
 

av8torntn

Well-Known Member
! Believes abortion is ok.

And here you have someone that thinks the government has the right to tell a woman what to do with her body! You complain about to much government but than you ok this!

Why should a woman who has been raped have to look at this child that she did not want and have to re-live the rape over and over everyday of her life?

If these are you beliefs i hope your sister never gets raped violently, but dont forget to pick up the birthday present for your bastard nephew.


Why should the Federal Government not protect the lives of babies? You want the government in every other facet of you life. When it comes to women using abortion as a means of birth control it is very hard for me to understand how you think the government is telling them what to do with their bodies. I think most people that get an abortion understand how they became pregnant. If the government were telling them what to do with their bodies they would be telling them not to engage in sex. In the case of B. Hussein he supports allowing babies to die that survived an abortion. If you oppose his stand on this how in the world could anyone think that they would be telling a woman what to do with her body?

Just for the record I see no way the US Constitution makes any of this the business of the federal government.
 

diesel96

Well-Known Member
my you are desperate for a rebuttal. Look I'm willing to dismiss the Ayers report if you can prove Obama was using him and the mobster to fight the soviets.

You know we have not seen this kind of venemous liberal posting since our friend *****/****** from *******...:)

Lighten up Frances......those of the anti-Obama supporters feed on posting nonsense primarily because they can't win on the issues. I felt his rebuttal made a valid point and was not at all desperate or venemous.
 
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tieguy

Banned
:happy-very:
Lighten up Frances......those of the anti-Obama supporters feed on posting nonsense primarily because they can't win on the issues. I felt his rebuttal made a valid point and was not at all desperate or venemous.

Then you must have your head up frances rear end. :happy-very:


the question remains who is the other side. who has the person posted as before? Its clearly not Brown shark. Looks more like SD
 

outamyway

Well-Known Member
How about some that are a bit more "real"

06obama_lg-1.jpg

burgex.jpg



This one for dramatic effect(since that seems to be your style)
obamathecommunist.jpg
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
Its really not that hard to understand. If you honestly believe that life starts at conception then you have to believe that aborting that life is murder. If you condone murder then where does it stop? Perhaps we may some day decide we should kill anyone with red hair?
First of all I'm not scared of death, why should someone be scared of the inevitable? I believe that a woman who is raped should not have to carry this burden for the rest of her life. I also believe that a woman who wont make a good mother should not also be another burden on my tax dollars while shes out looking for a quick fix.

There is a lot of red heads around today, you bald guys are the one becoming the minority. Long live the read head!
 

tieguy

Banned
First of all I'm not scared of death, why should someone be scared of the inevitable? I believe that a woman who is raped should not have to carry this burden for the rest of her life. I also believe that a woman who wont make a good mother should not also be another burden on my tax dollars while shes out looking for a quick fix.

There is a lot of red heads around today, you bald guys are the one becoming the minority. Long live the read head!


I'm not bald so I wouldn't know. But back to your point I don't personally believe there are good reasons to commit murder. Your answer seems to condone it?
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
And here you have someone that thinks the government has the right to tell a woman what to do with her body! You complain about to much government but than you ok this!

Well, of course! Protecting life should be the goal of any government regardless of the size of the government.

Why should a woman who has been raped have to look at this child that she did not want and have to re-live the rape over and over everyday of her life?

She doesn't. There is this thing called......ADOPTION! And is it the childs fault that he/she was created as a result of rape? No. It's not.

If these are you beliefs i hope your sister never gets raped violently, but dont forget to pick up the birthday present for your bastard nephew.

That last one made you sound like a total prick. Hope you enjoyed it. But since you mentioned it I will respond. My sister isn't a selfish self centered liberal and would have the baby regardless of the circumstances that resulted in the pregnancy. She knows that the baby should live and that she could always put it up for adoption if need be. There are plenty of parents looking to adopt. She wouldn't consider the easy way out like some people out there.

There is one issue on abortion I'm not sure about though. When it is determined that birth will kill the mother I have trouble deciding which way to go on that one. Abortion and live or have the baby and die. Either way someone loses. I'd stand with my wife (or sister) or any other women I would know in that unfortunate situation regardless of which way they went on that one.
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
These arn't personal friends. Looks like Reagan is doing official presidential duties. Did Reagan hang around with these people on his personal time before he became president? I don't believe Carter hung around his terrorists accuantences before he was president.


These ARE his personal friends, and personal friends of CHENEY, RUMSFELD, BAKER, WOLFOWITZ and BUSH and BUSH 2.

His presidential duties included taking care of terrorists for BUSH and the BUSH doctrine.

Dont let history escape you.
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
quote=tieguy

I'm not bald so I wouldn't know. But back to your point I don't personally believe there are good reasons to commit murder. Your answer seems to condone it?[/quote]


Mr. Tie, What about the death penalty? Would you support that?

And if you did, wouldnt that make you a hypocrite?
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
THE FACTS


  • Bill Ayers and the Weather Underground got their start in domestic terror by blowing up a police memorial statue -- what they called a "pig" statue -- in Chicago.
  • The Weather Underground professed a hatred for American law. In 1970, they attempted to kill a New York State Supreme Court Justice and his family with a car-bomb.
  • In 1995, Senator Obama launched his political career in the living room of Bill Ayers' Chicago home.
  • Senator Obama published a rave review of Bill Ayers' book about juvenile justice in the Chicago Tribune. The book questioned the necessity of a prison system, compared America to South Africa's apartheid system, and dismissed the idea of the United States as a kind or just country.
  • The Obama campaign has offered at least seven different stories about Senator Obama's relationship with Bill Ayers, including several different timelines about when Senator Obama learned of Bill Ayers' terrorist past.
  • Senator Obama said a few days ago he thought Bill Ayers was "rehabilitated." However, on perhaps the most horrific day in our nation's history, September 11, 2001, Ayers said "I don't regret setting bombs... I feel we didn't do enough" to terrorize America.

THE BOTTOM LINE


Senator Obama's explanation of his relationship with Bill Ayers is a matter of trust. If Senator Obama cannot tell the truth about his long-time relationships with Bill Ayers and ACORN, how c an we trust him to be straightforward with the American people about his plan for the economy or our national security? We need a president with strong judgement and firm convictions. America cannot risk electing a president with poor judgment and blind ambition.
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
Well, of course! Protecting life should be the goal of any government regardless of the size of the government.



She doesn't. There is this thing called......ADOPTION! And is it the childs fault that he/she was created as a result of rape? No. It's not.



That last one made you sound like a total prick. Hope you enjoyed it. But since you mentioned it I will respond. My sister isn't a selfish self centered liberal and would have the baby regardless of the circumstances that resulted in the pregnancy. She knows that the baby should live and that she could always put it up for adoption if need be. There are plenty of parents looking to adopt. She wouldn't consider the easy way out like some people out there.

There is one issue on abortion I'm not sure about though. When it is determined that birth will kill the mother I have trouble deciding which way to go on that one. Abortion and live or have the baby and die. Either way someone loses. I'd stand with my wife (or sister) or any other women I would know in that unfortunate situation regardless of which way they went on that one.

If the truth makes me sound like a prick I'm sorry for that. But i to have 3 sisters and i would totally understand if they were pregnant from being raped if they had an abortion. But you must realize that palin is against abortions in any circumstance, which would leave these mothers no option but to die.
 

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
Mr. Tie, What about the death penalty? Would you support that?

And if you did, wouldnt that make you a hypocrite?

What a moronic statement! Why don't you tell us what an unborn baby has done to deserve the death penalty of abortion? You seem to believe rape is wrong, but killing a live human being who had nothing to do with the rape is perfectly alright.
 
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