Why would part timers stay in union?

[noazrk]

I'm also obviously upset about how senior P.T. people aren't properly represented in the tentative agreement (see my 2 threads). I also just got a nice chuckle from the UPS Rising email today quoting Rick Pohlig about what a great contract is being proposed (yeah because his top pay's going up to $40+ and pension $5 more at the end of the contract).

BUT even if we don't get any of the stuff I'm fighting for I'm not here to bash the union. I will NEVER quit the Teamsters and I'm unlikely to quit my job. Without union representation we would get ZERO pension, ZERO trust account, forget about free legal services, I would have to pay at least $200 a month for just medical let alone dental & vision vs. the $0 we pay, and of course they could just give me the boot whenever they wanted to if I slow down physically.

I don't even want to call Denis T corrupt like many on here. I WOULD like an explanation as to why he stopped fighting for a P.T. catch up raise and how/why UPS is willing to give us $5 in pension contributions but the same raises from 10 years ago when the starting wage goes up 30+%! We senior workers already lost a $1.50 gap in the current contract which went unaddressed so new hires are catching up to us by $5.50 an hour......and it's not because we're at top pay.

 

[noazrk]

The problem is and always will be that newer PT workers do not vote. Yes the ones that have been there a while will but just like the drivers half of them probably don't vote either.

Hard to get what you want when you have a small voice. Getting the PT teamsters involved is a very tough job. Most imagine they won't be working there long so they don't bother. Most in here agree with you that PT employees should be paid better.

I hear you! That is why in 1 hour I'm blowing off vacation and heading down to my shift to hand out flyers about the contract meeting on Sunday morning with the headline " Your Contract, Your Future" .

I want to make sure EVERYBODY knows about the meeting, if they don't go and let their voices be heard it's on them but they can't blame their union steward!

WHO KNOWS? Maybe our Southwest Rider will address some of these issues? The company really exploits our lower PT wages here, 20 hour work weeks are a thing in the past! The last 3 Thursdays were 7 hour shifts for most areas.....not a Monday, Thursday! One of the slowest days of the week. I'm hoping for them to bargain for 30 hour/week combo jobs but I meant to submit that proposal and didn't so shame on me.

Guess I'll find out on Sunday.

 

[Time for change]

I am PT @ $25.52 before the increase with bennies and a pension not bad for 20 hr gig 5 weeks vacation also[/

I am PT @ $25.52 before the increase with bennies and a pension not bad for 20 hr gig 5 weeks vacation also

It’s not a bad gig, but some of the middle seniority part timers are getting squeezed. And the new skilled language that says everyone is skilled but not everyone gets the dollar is crazy. And that dollar or lack thereof will now be permanent no matter which job you do, forever. That’s insanity!

 

[22.34life]

It’s not a bad gig, but some of the middle seniority part timers are getting squeezed. And the new skilled language that says everyone is skilled but not everyone gets the dollar is crazy. And that dollar or lack thereof will now be permanent no matter which job you do, forever. That’s insanity!

this is one thing I do not agree with,the sorter language should have been left unchanged but had it been then new hires would have been able to walk in and get $14/hr and pass up some seniority employees.it gets very complicated.its easy to negotiate when u only negotiate for ur best interests.when u negotiate for everybody's best interests it gets harder.

 

[noazrk]

Yeah, that whole skill dollar thing is a real mess! Here's a tricky situation that is unfair to one of my co-workers but was just bad timing I guess? I have the sort dollar and turned down a clerk position (moving from sort to driving center). One of my sorter buddies took the clerk job 2 months ago and lost his dollar. Now, once the contract is passed there basically is no sort dollar so if I take a clerk position they won't be able to take it away and I'll make $1 more than him. He did take the job fully aware he would lose the dollar, I turned it down as I didn't want to drop in pay and a huge drop in hours. It's an issue I'll bring up to my business agent but I don't think the union will be able to do anything about it unless he was forced into the position. I read other people complaining about it but their scenario is a rare one. If someone didn't want to move into a skill position when it paid the extra $1 why would they want to do it now?

 

[22.34life]

Not so fast everyone's pay is grandfathered in.so all this no skilled pay only applies to people hired after 8-1-18.example,if u move to a clerk position u would lose $1 because u earned it through skilled pay.this language does not override previous language it only applies to employees hired after 8-!-18

 

[noazrk]

Really? Hmmmm.....good to know. I will keep that in mind and confirm it with my business agent after the contract is signed. I wasn't planning on taking a clerk job for at least 5 years anyways. But it won't be the opposite right? If someone with the same seniority as me decides to move from unloader to sorter I'm assuming they won't get the sort dollar anymore so then they would still make less than me doing the same job with same seniority. Or do you think they would be grandfathered in to get it?

 

[DELACROIX]

Not so fast everyone's pay is grandfathered in.so all this no skilled pay only applies to people hired after 8-1-18.example,if u move to a clerk position u would lose $1 because u earned it through skilled pay.this language does not override previous language it only applies to employees hired after 8-!-18

How is it that a clerical position is not considered a skilled position, they must of never had any clerks on these negotiating committees would be the only reason. All well as of the ratification on this one everybody is now SKILLED or UNSKILLED whatever..

I quoted it earlier but I posted a small example of the l990 contract. Most of the part timers were not born by then..The starting hourly rate was 9 dollars an hour, 4 years seniority it went up to over 11 skilled rate. So in 28 years the part time starting pay has only progressed 4 dollars if this one goes through. Now figure out the cost of living for all those years and see if that .07 cent annual increase works for you.

Do not get me started on your pension increases over the last 20 years, they should be negotiated with no caps the same as the full timers who will benefit for those years past 35. Also no retro improvements for those full timers who have any part time vested time under the UPS Pension Plan for part timers. Let us say count them at 60 dollars per credit year no matter when then left the part time positions and no 6 percent penalty. Also remunerate when you go full time you will be under the IBT/UPS pension plan and will have to start anew with your vesting time. We had a 22.3 who retired with 35 years in who had 20 years part time and 15 years full time and discovered that if he would stayed part time he would be able to collect a high pension. This happens because of the 6 percent penalty clause with both plans.

The Truth is this contract has nothing for the senior part time member. I guess the part timers did not have anyone on the negotiating committees too..

 

[UnconTROLLed]

It’s not a bad gig, but some of the middle seniority part timers are getting squeezed. And the new skilled language that says everyone is skilled but not everyone gets the dollar is crazy. And that dollar or lack thereof will now be permanent no matter which job you do, forever. That’s insanity!

There is no "skilled" in the contract, it's preload/high volume-low volume direct pickoff/sorter pay. There are much more "skilled" jobs than those that do not pay an extra dollar.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

I'm also obviously upset about how senior P.T. people aren't properly represented in the tentative agreement (see my 2 threads). I also just got a nice chuckle from the UPS Rising email today quoting Rick Pohlig about what a great contract is being proposed (yeah because his top pay's going up to $40+ and pension $5 more at the end of the contract).

BUT even if we don't get any of the stuff I'm fighting for I'm not here to bash the union. I will NEVER quit the Teamsters and I'm unlikely to quit my job. Without union representation we would get ZERO pension, ZERO trust account, forget about free legal services, I would have to pay at least $200 a month for just medical let alone dental & vision vs. the $0 we pay, and of course they could just give me the boot whenever they wanted to if I slow down physically.

I don't even want to call Denis T corrupt like many on here. I WOULD like an explanation as to why he stopped fighting for a P.T. catch up raise and how/why UPS is willing to give us $5 in pension contributions but the same raises from 10 years ago when the starting wage goes up 30+%! We senior workers already lost a $1.50 gap in the current contract which went unaddressed so new hires are catching up to us by $5.50 an hour......and it's not because we're at top pay.

The middle part of your post is purely rhetoric and misinformation that seems to be common. There is no reason people can and could not get health benefits, dental, 401k match /or even pension without a union. Fedex offers some or most of these. And "just getting the boot due to age" or whatever is idiotic; without the red tape of grievances and arbitrators, panels, etc, you can just hire an attorney and privately sue an employer (and likely win). This is more conducive to getting results expeditiously than a slow and lazy union/employer process.

 

[Time for change]

There is no "skilled" in the contract, it's preload/high volume-low volume direct pickoff/sorter pay. There are much more "skilled" jobs than those that do not pay an extra dollar.

There is no "skilled" in the contract, it's preload/high volume-low volume direct pickoff/sorter pay. There are much more "skilled" jobs than those that do not pay an extra dollar.

Pretty sure new contract changes all of this!

 

[Time for change]

this is one thing I do not agree with,the sorter language should have been left unchanged but had it been then new hires would have been able to walk in and get $14/hr and pass up some seniority employees.it gets very complicated.its easy to negotiate when u only negotiate for ur best interests.when u negotiate for everybody's best interests it gets harder.

I think you’re very mistaken. How would they pass up seniority employees if everyone gets the dollar? Either way if they are already getting the dollar they don’t jump above and beyond seniority employees, and if they weren’t getting the dollar they don’t pass anyone. You can’t rationalize this language to me. Two people with EXACT same seniority date, doing EXACT same job will now have a chance at having a dollar an hour difference in pay. It’s wrong and needs fixing and the union should be ashamed of themselves for really poor language.

 

[Just A UPS Guy]

The Truth is this contract has nothing for the senior part time member. I guess the part timers did not have anyone on the negotiating committees too..

The truth is that less than a third of PT shows up to vote. PT could have the last 4 contracts by the short hairs, but no turnout. PT did this to PT over 20+ years, it won't be fixed in five.

 

[Over disciplined0123]

That's a matter of an opinion not fact. IBT should write more, but then, the full time will complain about part timer getting more than their hour worth. But, instead of worrying about getting more, we should focus more about the financial benefit of being a senior part timer and how seniority matters. With the 1,000 hours or however the new contract going to be, it still in my opinion would be difficult to have a good pension while as part timer.



Yes, it shows that they aren't use to the union environment or not entirely fond about paying the dues. If they learn the way of the union and how dues are meant as premium for protection and engaging in contract would means more money, they would participate more.

They need to be educated on what is going to brings them more money and tell them to take action on that.



$1 a year for me. But, after the contract, it seem that the wage progression will cut my old wage progression rate. Yes, the cost of living is a JOKE. And, the government is doing that on purpose to cut cost of paying out Social Security benefits. If they were more honest about the cost of living, they would be paying out more money. The tax reformed law would have been useful if it meant for lower income bracket not for including the rich. If we don't collect more revenue, it won't make it easier to pay the Social Security benefits and debt deficit.



6 hours a week?

Well. Someone like the part time steward should tell them that if they don’t pay dues they won’t get the health insurance which is call teamsters select / blue cross teamsters plan . Cuz majority of part timers if you ask are only there for the benefits

 

[Over disciplined0123]

Well. Someone like the part time steward should tell them that if they don’t pay dues they won’t get the health insurance which is call teamsters select / blue cross teamsters plan . Cuz majority of part timers if you ask are only there for the benefits

The newly hired part timers seem a lot more naive this day in age not know what a Union is or how it benefits them for that matter !!!

 

[Over disciplined0123]

20 to 30 years ago 75 percent of Part timers were involved, concerned,and aware and solidarity was at it strongest with part timers. Now because of the low pay which causes more turnover They just don’t care at all or as much

 

[Over disciplined0123]

Also pretty sure that was the main plan at ups the last 25 years of not raising the part time wage. Just for that fact of part timers having majority vote and most care less about voting . I would bet most p/t employess have less then 2 yrs seniority

 

[Time for change]

Well. Someone like the part time steward should tell them that if they don’t pay dues they won’t get the health insurance which is call teamsters select / blue cross teamsters plan . Cuz majority of part timers if you ask are only there for the benefits

But that would mean lie to them.

 

[Over disciplined0123]

Pretty sure new contract changes all of this!

The new contract now states there will no longer be 1$ more for a skilled part time position like a loader or sorter . So will they take that dollar away from current part timers that receive that. The way I read new language is no they won’t that will just be subtracted from the catch up raise they offering . Which is to low

 

[noazrk]

PT was always meant to be a stepping stone to FT. People were not meant to be PT for 10, 15, 20 years. That's why they created 22.3 jobs.

Unfortunately for me, I believe you are correct. The more I look at the contract and the numbers, the more clear it gets.

I just noticed the new friend.T. driver raises which are significantly higher than ours! 1. 70 cents vs. $2.25 2. 75 cents vs. $3.50 3. 80 cents vs. $3.00 4. 90 cents vs. $3.75 5. $1 vs. jump to Top Pay

UPS can afford to bump drivers up $2-3 chunks each year and the starting P.T. wage 30% or more but can't afford to give senior P.T. even $1 until the last year and zero catch up raises?

It only takes drivers 5 years to make appx. double the starting pay. A P.T. 10 year employee WITH the sort dollar is not even 50% over starting pay anymore!

The numbers don't lie, it's obvious the union and UPS value the full-timers MUCH more than the part-timers (except during Peak of course). Either we can get in line to drive, quit and get replaced with someone making starting pay, or keep getting our meager raises and deal with it.

Like FT drivers we are expected to stay until all work is done regardless of our day job or school schedule. Just like FT drivers we are expected to put UPS first! Yet the pay is substantially less.

Pretty depressing honestly :-( But then again....we're still better off than Fed Ex employees!