Worst part of contract

[chocolate thunder]

if you read at the last part of the contract it also says 35 cents of our gwi guarantee wage increase can be transfered without vote by us to pay for benefits. that 35 cent every 6 months is a joke if ups was in the red i would understand but their not. ive been here 20 plus years and understand a strike would not be good but if this goes through in 6 years all feeder jobs will be on the rail and pulled by overnite for a lot less,anyone can load a truck with pas all new drivers with gps telling them right where to deliver with their helper while the international non union business is making them profits to keep them afloat while they tell wall street we are restructuring the domestic ground business to nonunion due to costs but the future saving will be very profitable. writing is on the wall guys send them back to the table tighten up the language,jobs for partimers , better than 20 a week raise,dont forget managers up top getting 6 figure raises, 1000 at night knocking on doors at peak, standing at doors in the rain waiting for signature, 25 boxes of copy paper to the 3rd floor thats us the wheels at ups,im not anti ups just stating the facts,ive been around to see the thrift plan come and go,early mangement getting burned on raises,promises and smokescreens are what they are the contract is the only protection we have so read that proposal and think of your families future for you and your kids its still early like buying a car,they are a public company with a lot of stock riding on this with fedex knocking on the backdoor,you dont buy a car for the first offer they give you negotiate hoffa your working for us. guys thanx for lookin im with you brothers and sisters lets stick together and be strong,united were strong divided we beg if ups wins with this proposal things will change not for the better for us., ive been around long enough to know and learned from the oldtimers.

 

[krash]

I am a31 yr feeder driver. Will Teamsters still have a ball and chain on me after I retire, or will I be able to drive a truck if I want to and when I want to? I can't find any language on this.

You cannot work at UPS or one of it's subsidiaries after retiring. Every one else is fair game.

Ball and chain????

 

[brownrodster]

These are the only 2 that remotely concern me

USE OF GPS AND OTHER TECHNOLOGY USED TO DISCIPINE AFTER 1st OFFENCE
$8.50 STARTING WAGE TILL 2013


I think any negative talk about our wage increases is ridiculous. We made it very clear to the union that wage increases were not a top priority (I'm talking about full time yearly wage increases). I still think the PT starting wage is sickeningly low. It would seem to me that it would be in the companie's best interest to increase the PT starting wage. But what do I know.

 

[brownrodster]

No new 22.3 jobs. Part timers will get on everytime, and now we're stuck PT longer.

Well, from what I have witnessed, new 22.3 jobs don't effect how long it takes to go FT (in general). Around here the only people who get 22.3 jobs were PTers with a lot of seniority (10+ years) who never intended to drive. With the massive retirements forecasted it shouldn't take too many years for today's new pters to become full time (of course this depends on where you work).

 

[BigBrownBlues]

I don't think that is correct ( but I could be wrong). My take is that UPS is giving you $3000 at 30 years. Because of the changes in CS, penalties, etc, you may not get $3000 at 30 from CS. In this case, UPS would make up the difference to get you to the $3000 mark. I'm under the impression that you're still going to get 2 checks....

It appears that you are correct about 2 checks but incorrect about UPS making up the difference if CS can't pay You in full. Look at this contact language posted in another thread by TAKELBURY:
Hi. I could be wrong, but the way I'm reading this -

"The UPS/IBT Plan will recognize full-time service in the CS Plan for determining eligibility for the benefits in this section and will offset at Normal Retirement Age the benefits accrued from the CS Plan commencing at Normal Retirement Age."

UPS will use count the years you've accrued with CS toward your total and will then reduce the amount you will receive from CS from the UPS plan. (two checks)

and this-

"If the benefit paid from the CS Plan is reduced as permitted or required by law, the amount of such reduction shall not be included in this offset."

seems to mean that if, for some reason CS cannot pay the full amount it owes you, then UPS is not required to make up the difference. For instance, if the Feds or CS decide that CS won't be able to pay everyone the agreed upon retirement amount, I suppose they could reduce it- if the current law permits the reduction.

 

[Pollocknbrown]

Stupid question maybe, but if this proposed contract is ratified, and UPS starts taking trailers off the rails, and creates feeder positions, how can it count towards their obligated 22.3 job creation when there are no obligations listed in this proposal?

Also, i can see nearly all those jobs for those going to subcontractors, since it lists "equipment" as having to be available, UPS can just deny they don't have the funds to purchase more tractors to pull the extra trailers etc etc. Personnel i dont see as a problem though, ill take the job when i get my CDL.

 

[local804]

As a feeder guy the issue of subcontracting work is of great concern. It used to be that you would only see independent truckers coming to our hubs during the peak period only.
Nowadays they are coming into the Meadowlands N.J. hub everynight. That and the idea of the company diverting small pkg work to upsf once Hoffa organizes them. i waited 16 years to get into feeder. Those on the list now may never get the opportunity because those jobs could simply disappear.

truth!
you give them an inch, they will take a mile.

 

[GuyinBrown]

It appears that you are correct about 2 checks but incorrect about UPS making up the difference if CS can't pay You in full. Look at this contact language posted in another thread by TAKELBURY:
Hi. I could be wrong, but the way I'm reading this -

"The UPS/IBT Plan will recognize full-time service in the CS Plan for determining eligibility for the benefits in this section and will offset at Normal Retirement Age the benefits accrued from the CS Plan commencing at Normal Retirement Age."

UPS will use count the years you've accrued with CS toward your total and will then reduce the amount you will receive from CS from the UPS plan. (two checks)

and this-

"If the benefit paid from the CS Plan is reduced as permitted or required by law, the amount of such reduction shall not be included in this offset."

seems to mean that if, for some reason CS cannot pay the full amount it owes you, then UPS is not required to make up the difference. For instance, if the Feds or CS decide that CS won't be able to pay everyone the agreed upon retirement amount, I suppose they could reduce it- if the current law permits the reduction.

I understand and agree with that point. I think however, that in current terms, it means that if somebody is close to retiring with 30 years right now and they're only going to be say 55, and because of the 6% per year penalties for retiring under age 62, UPS is promising to make up the difference to get them up to $3000.

I think that one of the hidden benefits to UPS getting out of CS, is that it will now fall on the shoulders of the other contributing companies ( like Yellow ) to float the pension fund. Yellow has already expressed a desire to get out of CS, so I would think that another large influx of cash in the form of another withdrawal penalty would only strengthen the fund.

 

[705red]

Stupid question maybe, but if this proposed contract is ratified, and UPS starts taking trailers off the rails, and creates feeder positions, how can it count towards their obligated 22.3 job creation when there are no obligations listed in this proposal?

Also, i can see nearly all those jobs for those going to subcontractors, since it lists "equipment" as having to be available, UPS can just deny they don't have the funds to purchase more tractors to pull the extra trailers etc etc. Personnel i dont see as a problem though, ill take the job when i get my CDL.

For every new feeder run they create is one less 22.3 they need to fill. So say 3 quit, get fired, or move into package car, and the company creates 3 new feeder runs ups will not replace the 22.3 jobs. Thtas how that works, even though theres language protecting theses 22.3 jobs that just wiped it out. The big problem with this is how will we keep track of thses jobs? How do you monitor the new feeder runs, and how do you enforce that the company will replace retired feeders with real feeder jobs and not so called 22.3 feeder jobs. Very loose language.

 

[Brown Dog]

I agree with Chocolate Thunder, You never take the 1st offer, and this 1st offer doesn't address many important issues. What about an increase in the cost of retirees insurance? Is that true? If so, then our pension just took a hit! With no prescription card, no dental, and no eyecare already, it sure doesn't appear that our union has "protected" our pension benefits very well. We've been at the same 2800 for 25 years for several contracts now. Less than 50% of our yearly earnings. I'll bet our teamster reps get alot more than 50% for their retirement that WE'RE paying for!

 

[LKLND3380]

What Is your greatest concern about the new contract? And why is it a concern?
Some possibilities:
PENSION PROVISIONS
WAGE INCREASES LESS THAN INFLATION
RAISES DIVERTED INTO PENSION
CENTRAL STATES GOING BELLY UP AND WE STILL HAVE TO DEPEND ON IT
9.5 LANGUAGE IS STILL WEAK
SUBCONTRACTING PROTECTION IS WEAK
USE OF GPS AND OTHER TECHNOLOGY USED TO DISCIPINE AFTER 1st OFFENCE
$8.50 STARTING WAGE TILL 2013
LONGER PROGRESION TO FULL WAGE
NO NEW FULL TIME POSITIONS CREATED
SPLIT WAGE RAISES
LONGER PROBATIONARY PERIOD
UPS WILL CONTROL PENSION

Please add you own concerns!

NO TRANSFERS FOR FULL OR PART TIME...

Yeah part time can transfer ONLY FOR EDUCATIONAL purposes... Yeah west coast UPSers can transfer... But this is LONG OVERDUE... Many times UPSERS have spouses that have a job transfer opportunity.

At my building one guy came from Ohio and went from driving right to the preload making 8.50 an hour and no benefits or paid vacations... His wife was given a promotion and it was a chance to get out of Ohio cold to Florida sun. He went to preload so he did get that extra $1.00 but UPS has an overqulified experienced skilled worker being under paid... Maybe in two or three years he can bid to go back to driving...

 

[LKLND3380]

It would be ok if we could do half the work today and say the other half tomorrow.

STACK IT OUT

Some preloaders miss so much work on the belt I think they are doing as you suggest already...

 

[ups79]

I agree with Chocolate Thunder, You never take the 1st offer, and this 1st offer doesn't address many important issues. What about an increase in the cost of retirees insurance? Is that true? If so, then our pension just took a hit! With no prescription card, no dental, and no eyecare already, it sure doesn't appear that our union has "protected" our pension benefits very well. We've been at the same 2800 for 25 years for several contracts now. Less than 50% of our yearly earnings. I'll bet our teamster reps get alot more than 50% for their retirement that WE'RE paying for!

Brown dog:you out of local 710?

 

[OZZ]

Personally I might be most worried about using GPS and other technology to discipline. The new trucks have sensors all over them. There is a sensor for your seat belt, your emergency brake, your bulkhead and rear door being closed, and I think your wheels moving. There is a GPS in your DIAD that is always turned on not just when you stop complete. I truely do my best to follow methods but I dont want an overzellous manager to gig me anytime a sensor says my seatbelt wasn't fastened the 1st second I pulled from a curb. They have already called me in the office to explain why I had X minutes between stops. I run better numbers than most of my center and I do resent them impling that I steal time. I have worked TAW in the office and let me tell you I would have fired all of them for doing personal work at the office! I just wonder how many new technologies for spying on employees are waiting in the wings.

 

[U`nder P`ermanent S`tress]

UPS pays $3000 a month to 30 years of service employee's who are 65 years or older. You are penalized 6% for each year or partial year you are under the age of 65. The way I understand that means if you retire, say at age 55, with 30 years of service, you will be penalized 6% times 10 years. So, only 40% of the $3000 is what your monthly pension will be. UPS says 65 is a normal retirement age, lets hope they don't lenghten it.

 

[Bustrbyte]

This is my worst part of contract.
Article I-6

The UPS/IBT Plan will recognize full-time service in the CS Plan for determining eligibility for the benefits in this section and will offset at Normal Retirement Age the benefits accrued from the CS Plan commencing at Normal Retirement Age. If the benefit paid from the CS Plan is reduced as permitted or required by law, the amount of such reduction shall not be included in this offset.
(normal retirement age is noted earlier in contract as 65)



The way I see it:


The UPS/IBT Plan will recognize full-time(what about Part time?) service in the CS Plan for determining eligibility for the benefits in this section and will offset at Normal Retirement Age(65) the benefits accrued from the CS Plan commencing at Normal Retirement Age.(65)
If(not if-when) the benefit paid from the CS Plan is reduced as permitted or required by law, the amount of such reduction shall not be included in this offset.



Why do people keep telling me their pension is now secure? UPS leaving is the beginning of more to leave. ABF and Yellow will be next. Will it float? I don't think so. If it goes under so do your years in CS.

 

[chevyman]

If this contract passes, then when you retire , under this new contract, you will receive your pension through the new joint administered UPS/Teamster Pension Plan not CS. When UPS dumps the 6.1 billion into CS plan they walk away never having to pay into that again. And so the 44,000 UPSers that would have gotten their check through CS will now get it from UPS. Meanwhile, the CS pension plan got a boost and that should make everyone else in CS breath a little easier. If you are a UPSer , then whats not to like about going from a pension plan thats 47% funded to a 100% funded. Who cares where it comes from. Don't forget what happened in the 70s when the teamsters dipped into the fund. And don't forget about the hand that feeds you. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to be a teamster, glad that have someone to go to if I need to be represented but they don't butter my bread.

 

[Bustrbyte]

Chevy man Read:If the benefit paid from the CS Plan is reduced as permitted or required by law, the amount of such reduction shall not be included in this offset.

If you were right there would not be this wording. UPS would not have to pay the unfunded liability for us if they were taking over our liability. After the 6.1 I have heard it will be 70% funded. Thanks for the reply.

 

[GuyinBrown]

Compounding interest is a beautiful thing.... 6.1 Billion upfront is going to make the CS plan a hell of a lot healthier than it is now or would be in the future if UPS simply continued making the required contributions. Even independent financial experts have said that the best thing for UPS and its employees, is to take this opportunity to withdraw from the CS fund now.

 

[Cookie]

if you read at the last part of the contract it also says 35 cents of our gwi guarantee wage increase can be transfered without vote by us to pay for benefits. that 35 cent every 6 months is a joke if ups was in the red i would understand but their not. ive been here 20 plus years and understand a strike would not be good but if this goes through in 6 years all feeder jobs will be on the rail and pulled by overnite for a lot less,anyone can load a truck with pas all new drivers with gps telling them right where to deliver with their helper while the international non union business is making them profits to keep them afloat while they tell wall street we are restructuring the domestic ground business to nonunion due to costs but the future saving will be very profitable. writing is on the wall guys send them back to the table tighten up the language,jobs for partimers , better than 20 a week raise,dont forget managers up top getting 6 figure raises, 1000 at night knocking on doors at peak, standing at doors in the rain waiting for signature, 25 boxes of copy paper to the 3rd floor thats us the wheels at ups,im not anti ups just stating the facts,ive been around to see the thrift plan come and go,early mangement getting burned on raises,promises and smokescreens are what they are the contract is the only protection we have so read that proposal and think of your families future for you and your kids its still early like buying a car,they are a public company with a lot of stock riding on this with fedex knocking on the backdoor,you dont buy a car for the first offer they give you negotiate hoffa your working for us. guys thanx for lookin im with you brothers and sisters lets stick together and be strong,united were strong divided we beg if ups wins with this proposal things will change not for the better for us., ive been around long enough to know and learned from the oldtimers.

CHOCOLATE THUNDER HAS IT RIGHT! UPS gives us 70 cents in the first year......ups takes back 35 cents to fund our pension. Why would we vote yes for this contract only to give back 35 cents to fund our own pension? WAKE UP! VOTE NO! Not to mention the GPS discipline and it goes on and on......UPS psychological warfare!