15 - 22.3 jobs eliminated at Boeing Field Hub!!!

[BrownFlower]

Okay my question would be this.
Should UPS be forced to keep full-time positions filled if the volume does not coincide?

I know I'm working the same hours and doing the same stops as before but I also know I'm usually doing work that was part of another route at one time to get my stops up.

If you can prove the volume has not changed there you probably have a case - if not.....well.

Where in the contract does it say that if volume drops they are allowed to replace 22.3 employees with part timers??

assuming that is what you meant by "if not...well"

 

[barrycold]

My company seniority has been dove tailed into the part timers list but I most likely won't be able to bid on a full time position there for many, many years before taking the job at BFI. (hence the reason that I was in the first group of fifteen to get the boot)

AT this point I think most 22.3 people are in it for the long haul and won't be retiring for a long time.

It's quite a coincidence that you mentioned city center because I drove air part time for them for about 8 years and did many different jobs during that time.
(on call air, downtown letterbox pickup, morning delivery, etc..)
So I have a pretty good knowledge of what used to go on there but I don't know anything about any of these FT air driving jobs you mention.

The only FT air driving jobs I've ever heard of are early morning shuttle runs done out of BFI. I believe that there are only 6.
2 of them are being done by very high seniority, born and bred BFI people.
The 4 centers in the seattle hub are allocated the remaining routes, 1 per center to be bid on only by their package car drivers.

If you know of any other FT air driving positions, I be greatly appreciative of any info on them. If not for now, then maybe someday in the future if my body and/or finances can hold out long enough.

So none of the 15 are on the full time seniority list anymore? The only jobs that are going to be available to bid are at Redmond. Before this all happen everybody wanted to work at BFI. I guess everybody found out about the places. I never knew they had FT air drivers.

 

[1989]

How long ago were these jobs posted? I don't think that they could be the same jobs I mentioned because in my 6 years at BFI the same guys were driving all these routes and I was told this story about them being alloted 1 per center by different people at BFI.

The reason for not having the option of package car is that I blew my back out 5 days into it when I went driving in the late 90's.
I had an MRI and the doctors were amazed at all the damage they found.
(some of it from years of performing a pickoff job in the hub most likely)

Not sure, sometime after 2000. There were 2 bid sheets for ft drivers only awarded to 20-25 year drivers. Jim R. and a Vashon island driver. One route went east I90 the other went towards the coast I think.

 

[BrownFlower]

So none of the 15 are on the full time seniority list anymore? The only jobs that are going to be available to bid are at Redmond. Before this all happen everybody wanted to work at BFI. I guess everybody found out about the places. I never knew they had FT air drivers.

I never knew of any FT air drivers until I got the job at BFI. It took me all of about 2 days to notice and start inquiring about them.

I couldn't stop smiling for a week when I first started there. It really didn't even resemble the UPS that I knew.
It was a place that someone with a trashed back like mine could actually retire.
Everyone felt the same way. (well... almost everyone. there's always a few s in every group that thrive on misery)

I got to work on the top deck of a 757 every morning and then watch the sun come up on mt rainier as I was marshalling out small prop planes.

some great memories...

 

[barrycold]

There are only 3 centers in Seattle now. Lake has been absorbed into the other 3. Those BFI air driver bid sheets were posted for the whole hub, not by center. With your seniority you will probably be at the top of any bid sheet. Why not go ft driving?

I think there's going to be a pay cut involved so I don't think any of the 15 would be interested in going ft driving.

 

[barrycold]

Yes I'm quite sure that they haven't moved them elswhere in the county because it this just happened this week.

Are they going to abide by the contract and create 15 new 22.3 jobs somewhere else in the country? ... I seriously doubt it because as stated in the article that Barry linked us to - http://makeupsdeliver.org/news.php?extend.174 (thanks much barry.....great article)
UPS has not come through with providing any proof of these jobs like they agreed they would.

I happend to confirm this fact with my BA at the hall on monday.
Sure, each 22.3 job is assigned a number (1-20,000) but what good does it do if nobody keeps track!!
There is absolutely no excuse for this from either the company or the union.
I could go on a serious rant here but I won't.... if someone else would like to feel free.

I just found that article doing a search and I myself was shocked by reading it. Hopefully you can pass this link to the other 14 ppl.

 

[BrownFlower]

Not sure, sometime after 2000. There were 2 bid sheets for ft drivers only awarded to 20-25 year drivers. Jim R. and a Vashon island driver. One route went east I90 the other went towards the coast I think.

There we go... we were talking about the same jobs then.
I didn't get down to BFI until 2002-2003.

Maybe someday after they retire I'll get a shot at one but I'd guess that they'll be sitting on those jobs for quite some time.

 

[BrownFlower]

I just found that article doing a search and I myself was shocked by reading it. Hopefully you can pass this link to the other 14 ppl.

I'll be spreading that article far and wide.

thanks again!

 

[BrownFlower]

I think there's going to be a pay cut involved so I don't think any of the 15 would be interested in going ft driving.

There's actually at least 2 that have been talking about ft driving.

I'm pretty sure that they'll go right to top scale six months after making seniority because you can only go through progession once and the six month wait is required because of the difference in time between progressions.

 

[tieguy]

. I seriously doubt it because as stated in the article that Barry linked us to - http://makeupsdeliver.org/news.php?extend.174 (thanks much barry.....great article)

I don't know what is going on in your area. If the jobs are being moved somewhere else. I would think they will be eventually. But don't confuse yourself with that tdu hate job you posted a link to. The company is required to provide a list. I know the coding of those jobs often causes me payroll issues. The system is in place where the company can pull that list and has done so in the past. When reading a TDU link remember that talking to someone from 10 different cities does not equate to the complete truth. Ask yourself why TDU would not simply ask James hoffa whether all jobs are being accounted for. Its a typical TDU type article the old "hey I talked to so and so who talked to so and so and that guys cousin said Hoffa ain't doing his job". Ask yourself why TDU has never posted anything positive about anyone in the union other then the few TDU nuts running around.

 

[barrycold]

I don't know what is going on in your area. If the jobs are being moved somewhere else. I would think they will be eventually. But don't confuse yourself with that tdu hate job you posted a link to. The company is required to provide a list. I know the coding of those jobs often causes me payroll issues. The system is in place where the company can pull that list and has done so in the past. When reading a TDU link remember that talking to someone from 10 different cities does not equate to the complete truth. Ask yourself why TDU would not simply ask James hoffa whether all jobs are being accounted for. Its a typical TDU type article the old "hey I talked to so and so who talked to so and so and that guys cousin said Hoffa ain't doing his job". Ask yourself why TDU has never posted anything positive about anyone in the union other then the few TDU nuts running around.

are you from one of those states that was listed in the article? Are you saying this is not true about the 22.3 jobs? I found this article and it was a good read so I thought I would share this with others. No need to bash me for this. I do not know anything about this TDU website but it did speak the truth about these 22.3 jobs.

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

Where in the contract does it say that if volume drops they are allowed to replace 22.3 employees with part timers??

assuming that is what you meant by "if not...well"

I believe the contract only says UPS can create jobs on feeder runs and count them towards 22.3 creations. I wonder if they're trying to exploit some language subtleties beyond that exact section. When I have time I'll try to find it, but I don't think it's there. I know here at this hub I'm fairly new to, they have already tried to eliminate one job by combining two 22.3 combos and doing away with one half of each. The union caught it, but I highly doubt this will be the end of this type of action.

It's a disgrace you lost your job that you held for so long. I hope this is a battle you win and also win retroactive pay in the process.

As an inside/inside 22.3, with far less seniority than yourself, now I'm certainly alot more cautious about buying that house myself and fiance were so looking forward to this spring. The last thing someoen should need to worry about is a multi-billion dollar company raking it in eliminating jobs that were created due to the fact they ARE raking it in.

Keep us updated..

 

[tieguy]

are you from one of those states that was listed in the article? Are you saying this is not true about the 22.3 jobs? I found this article and it was a good read so I thought I would share this with others. No need to bash me for this. I do not know anything about this TDU website but it did speak the truth about these 22.3 jobs.

Barry I question the source. 10 shop stewards in various cities does not equate to an accurate acounting of the facts.

The question here is does the company have the required number of 22.3 jobs around the country.

And question 2 is the teamsters union requesting an accounting of those jobs.

Who better to ask then James hoffa and the teamsters union theirselves?

Ask them to account for the jobs and to verify they are filled. That is what you pay them for.

 

[tieguy]

I believe the contract only says UPS can create jobs on feeder runs and count them towards 22.3 creations. I wonder if they're trying to exploit some language subtleties beyond that exact section. When I have time I'll try to find it, but I don't think it's there. I know here at this hub I'm fairly new to, they have already tried to eliminate one job by combining two 22.3 combos and doing away with one half of each. The union caught it, but I highly doubt this will be the end of this type of action.

It's a disgrace you lost your job that you held for so long. I hope this is a battle you win and also win retroactive pay in the process.

As an inside/inside 22.3, with far less seniority than yourself, now I'm certainly alot more cautious about buying that house myself and fiance were so looking forward to this spring. The last thing someoen should need to worry about is a multi-billion dollar company raking it in eliminating jobs that were created due to the fact they ARE raking it in.

Keep us updated..

I agree its a shame and a hardship for him to go from full time back to part time. Unfortuately its an issue you will see as business volume flucuates in different areas of the country. The question contractually is do these slots open up somewhere else. Keep in mind that while these people are experiencing this hardship UPSers overall do not face the problems of employees working for billion dollar companies like GM.

 

[browned out]

Barry I question the source. 10 shop stewards in various cities does not equate to an accurate acounting of the facts.

The question here is does the company have the required number of 22.3 jobs around the country.

And question 2 is the teamsters union requesting an accounting of those jobs.

Who better to ask then James hoffa and the teamsters union theirselves?

Ask them to account for the jobs and to verify they are filled. That is what you pay them for.

Hoffa knows but does not care. UPS pays him more than the rank and file do. Every local needs to account for these jobs.

 

[tieguy]

Hoffa knows but does not care. UPS pays him more than the rank and file do. Every local needs to account for these jobs.

every local can not account for the jobs. Its a national number not a local number. polling a few shop stewards who happen to be tdu nazi's is not even close to an accurate accounting.

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

every local can not account for the jobs. Its a national number not a local number. polling a few shop stewards who happen to be tdu nazi's is not even close to an accurate accounting.

True, this isn't at a local level in the overall grand scheme. There needs to be an assessment at a national level of the jobs being maintained, and if that number is below the agreed upon number ( I highly doubt it's ABOVE btw ), this definitly needs to be addressed.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

IF UPS is eliminating 22.3 jobs then they are violating the contract. Contract says that they are to maintain the jobs that have been created.

 

[sx2700]

IF UPS is eliminating 22.3 jobs then they are violating the contract. Contract says that they are to maintain the jobs that have been created.

The problem is that nobody knows what is going on with these jobs. I think UPS found a loophole here since there is no accountability then they can eliminate the jobs but say they moved them somewhere else that has more volume???

 

[I'mTheMan]

One of you may have recognize me from BFI as well that I am one of 15 of them that been cut back to Part Time to Seattle Hub as well. I will be at the Union Hall saturday as well too. Just wanted to say that the company have no right by touching us our Full Time Seniority. Our Seniority is locked. The company failed to tell us 60 days notice of layoffs or cut. Even failed to tell us 45 days of change of operation too as well. I have to be honest with you. I'm not fully prepared to go back to part time like this. I have a family to support. I very much rather stay Full Time BFI. There are other ways on the table that could've work things out. Right now, the way I'm hearing things is that they may never let us back to Full Time, if ever. Secondly, There's rumor that on or around September 20th, 2008, they will shut down BFI Night Sort entirely. 3 years ago, we won the fight to keep night sort open at BFI to allow us to continue to do our jobs and volume rose up in fall. This Fall, the volume will rise up again and will get us to be busy. Right now, we all have to sit tight for a month or two till the judge can make it's decision here. I told the union that to do the right thing, by telling the judge to return our jobs back at BFI and keeping the night sort open. Gas Prices are going down now so the company shouldn't be worrying on anything like this now. It's just normal every summer when volume is low. It'll get bigger this fall to be ready in hand for christmas. What I am saying is that managers and division managers need to leave us alone and let us do our jobs and support our families to each other. This families is how we work together in BFI. I have strong faith in it and I'm hoping other will follow at the Union Meeting saturday and go from there. That is all I have to say for now. By the way, I still never wanted to go back to the hubs as very much rather staying at BFI which my jobs handles much easier and love the hobbies seeing planes land and take offs. Now, it's tough.