$15 an hour minimum wage.

[JL 0513]

No one is against incremental increases. The argument is against this ridiculous $15/hr figure. I'm not even necessarily against the Presidents $10.10 figure. Although I wouldn't do it all in one shot. Start at like $9 Jan 1st. Then $10 the following year.

You gotta do what makes sense in the real world. Labor value is based on tangible measurements of skill and other considerations. The low end of the skill spectrum isn't worth $15/hr regardless of what a person "needs" to live on. You cannot pick numbers out of the air and say that this is what you gotta compensate someone.

 

[alwaysoverallowed]

The more they make the more their taxed and then they therefore don't rely on assistance as much and they have more disposable income to fuel the economy. That's how it works there is decades of empirical data to back this up.

 

[SignificantOwner]

Maybe we should stop talking about "minimum" wage and start talking about "living" wage. Someone has to flip burgers, someone has to clean toilets, and someone has to empty my trash can. Whether it's entry level/temporary or not, they have bills to pay just like everyone else.

Guess what happens when you pay these people below a living wage. They use public assistance. Guess who pays for that... the taxpayers. We are subsidizing billions in corporate profit.
http://livingwage.mit.edu/

Execs being issued stock options hand over fist love it when taxes on their workers subsidize their profits. Obama seems to like it too.

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

People, research the law that brought about the minimum wage. It is, in fact, supposed to provide a livable wage. It was not meant for "entry-level" positions. ...whatever the heck those are.

If someone works, they should be paid decently for their time, the same as a company would like maximum value for their dollar paid for labor. No, jobs aren't given out by companies out of the graciousness of their hearts (Ha! What hearts?!), but neither do people give their time and energies for the heck of it. When the minimum wage was first implemented by FDR, that was understood better.

Good for you if you had the drive to do more, get an education/a better skillset for better pay. That doesn't mean an adult - especially one supporting a family- should work for any corporation on slave wages.

Again, enough with the "minimum wage for entry level positions". Unless you are talking about paper boy or babysitting, there is no such thing, since the minimum wage was always meant to provide decent, living wage.

 

[overflowed]

My thoughts on this subject kinda go like this. The reason we have been in a recession is no one has or no one wants to spend money. If this theoretically happened the economy would jump start itself. The poor have a little bit to spend, which if they got a large increase in pay would happen. All pay would have to increase as well. People start buying crap, we in turn get very busy, UPS and FEDEX hire more people. This in turn has more people buying more crap, which in turn makes our companies hire more people. Rinse and repeat above. I don't see how this would be bad. Corporate America has used this excuse of we can't give you a raise because of the economy for way too long. When in reality what they are doing to record these huge profits are a self fulfilling prophecy of a bad economy. People have just been hanging on for too long. Something has to let loose. I would care less if I had to pay for an extra 50 cents for a Big Mac combo. The only people this would hurt are people caught up in scams that pay people barely any money for labor.
This is all just my opinion of course.

 

[TUT]

You're saying that a $15 min wage would help all of us? How so?

So are you saying, they shouldn't get $15/hour because it will hurt you?

 

[TUT]

This makes the point of why it would kill the opportunities of new workers trying to gain work experience for the first time. No employer is going to pay a high school kid $15/hr to dip a basket of fries into oil. What you'll have is older people who haven't found work putting McDonald's uniforms on. It leaves young people unemployed with no way to gain work experience and sets older people's skill levels back making it harder to get back into a more advanced job later.

My first job out of High School was a little over $9 in 1985. 1985! The reason it has to go up a lot is because it's been stagnant for way too long while many essentials have gone through the roof.

 

[TUT]

My thoughts on this subject kinda go like this. The reason we have been in a recession is no one has or no one wants to spend money.

True. We've all become penny pinchers.

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

And JL, do you really think prices would go through the roof if there was a drastic increase in minimum wages? Keep in mind, strong companies always grow profits, always grow revenue. Some even have record profits, like UPS! Where does that money go? To shareholders, to CEO and upper management pockets.

Guess what happened to Scott Davis and other higher level managers this year at UPS? They took a paycut! Even as UPS had a record year, they made LESS MONEY (to be fair, the reduced income had much to do with changes to his retirement plan).

Other large corporations would do similar if their workers got a sizeable increase: instead of CEOS making 1000x what the lowest employees make, it would shrink to, say, 500%!

 

[redrooster]

This makes the point of why it would kill the opportunities of new workers trying to gain work experience for the first time. No employer is going to pay a high school kid $15/hr to dip a basket of fries into oil. What you'll have is older people who haven't found work putting McDonald's uniforms on. It leaves young people unemployed with no way to gain work experience and sets older people's skill levels back making it harder to get back into a more advanced job later.

Exactly! Raising the wage to 15 would almost immediately disqualify the current minimum wage workers as more skilled and competent people would flood in to take those jobs. Also, those higher skilled workers could do more work efficiently and the number of jobs would be reduced. Face it, there is no magic way to make the incompetent equal to the more highly skilled or harder working people. In all systems there will be poor people who will get less than others

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

Exactly! Raising the wage to 15 would almost immediately disqualify the current minimum wage workers as more skilled and competent people would flood in to take those jobs.

Good... now keep going... go a step further.

Were those "more skilled and competent" people unemployed? What would happen to the wage at the jobs they left, or weren't taking because the pay was too low?
Rising tides raise all boats. Underpaying our lowest valued workers hurts all of us.

 

[joeboodog]

They work as instructed. You think highly of their management and believe their processes set the hourly workers up for success. Maybe UPS should hire their management as consultants.

I do not think highly of their management. Their management is the problem because when they screw up the order the manager tries to make it seem like its the customer's faullt. I definately think UPS part timers are under paid and should be paid way more but some high schooler working part time flinging burger's getting $15 an hour is a joke.

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

I do not think highly of their management. Their management is the problem because when they screw up the order the manager tries to make it seem like its the customer's faullt. I definately think UPS part timers are under paid and should be paid way more but some high schooler working part time flinging burger's getting $15 an hour is a joke.

It is often mentioned that should the minimum wage be raised many will be laid off. I think people like that teen will be the first dropped. He or she isn't likely to stick around long; it's just a summer fling. If a company is going to sink a higher wage into its workers, they'll want to have people they know will be around beyond a season. And that will be a good thing....

Also, people who aren't very good workers will be pushed aside. Low wages attract some low people. Meanwhile, those who are diligent and earnest in their jobs will have a wage to match what they offer.

People need to be paid fairly for what they do, not a low wage in a race to see who could pay their workers the least.

 

[Wally]

In this state (NJ), the government workers unions are always trying their best to boost the minimum wage. Is it because they really care? No, government wages are based on a percentage of the minimum wage. If it goes up, so do their wages.

 

[oldngray]

increase minimum wage would encourage fewer workers and more automation. It would be cheaper to have machines replace those expensive workers.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Both my kids started at Mickey D's. They would have loved $15/hr but the sad reality is that these are entry level jobs for which minimum wage to start is appropriate.

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

Both my kids started at Mickey D's. They would have loved $15/hr but the sad reality is that these are entry level jobs for which minimum wage to start is appropriate.

This may be, but that "entry-level" wage should be able to support an adequate means of living. It's not any internship, where a wage starts off low as one trains for advancement in that field with the promise of more pay.

In addition, why is it "inappropriate" for a fast food worker to receive $15/hr? What is this opinion based on?

 

[oldngray]

Minimum wage is not designed to support an "adequate means of living". It is and always should be an entry level position, not one someone should expect to live comfortably on or to support a family. It is for entry level jobs used as a stepping stone to better jobs or for short term employment. Not as a career. And everything is relative. If everyone had a million dollars nobody would be rich because the cost of living would also increase.

 

[PT Car Washer]

increase minimum wage would encourage fewer workers and more automation. It would be cheaper to have machines replace those expensive workers.

And someone would have to build those machines. Hopefully Americans and not Chinese.

 

[redrooster]

Minimum wage is not designed to support an "adequate means of living". It is and always should be an entry level position, not one someone should expect to live comfortably on or to support a family. It is for entry level jobs used as a stepping stone to better jobs or for short term employment. Not as a career. And everything is relative. If everyone had a million dollars nobody would be rich because the cost of living would also increase.

Make the minimum wage 50 dollars an hour.