22.4 eliminates 6000 RPCD jobs.

[542thruNthru]

About training, a strike is certainly less of a threat if they have facilities spitting out new drivers.
I'm not really talking about SD. I meant nationwide. They already have new buildings built or being built.

Remember they have to pass a DOT physical to drive our trucks. So that will slow them down a lot. I can't speak to everywhere because of the drastic difference in every region. I do believe 22.4 should have never been added to the master. It's a

I also wasn't talking about the right to follow a job but, the protected status of it. And, I'm not sure they have that everywhere.

The protected status they have everywhere per the Master. Per #3 of Art 22.4

Having said all that, I don't want to sound like I know everything, I definitely don't but, for example, the contract also heavily restricts the use of cover drivers and I'm sure you'll agree that's not what's happening.

I totally agree with you the contract was not followed when it came to cover drivers in our area. I will also admit it's part of our fault also. No one wanted to deny a cover driver the opportunity to make money. Like I said before about the two tier wage scale "fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me."


The strength of a union lies in Unity. If we only worry about one area and not all areas we are defeated.
"All for one, and one for all"
"United we stand, divided we fall"
"Divide and conquer"
"E pluribus unum"
It's an old concept

I agree with you. The problem is only 30% of the UPS teamsters agree with us. Keep fighting the good fight brother and I'll do the same.

 

[Grey]

I still don’t know how everyone will get their hours on Wed, Thu and Fri. Some RPCD’s will be fine going home but not enough for the 22.4’s to get their 8. Our center has over 100 RPCD’s and they’re adding 25 22.4’s?

 

[542thruNthru]

I still don’t know how everyone will get their hours on Wed, Thu and Fri. Some RPCD’s will be fine going home but not enough for the 22.4’s to get their 8. Our center has over 100 RPCD’s and they’re adding 25 22.4’s?

I don't know your supplemental language so what I think might not be a 100% accurate. They will not go to 25% right away because 22.4 is guaranteed 8hrs/5 consecutive. If you're RPCDs have a guarantee then it will help keep the 22.4s in check. Monday is the real concern in most areas because of the "when work available" language.

 

[Coldworld]

Next question how are they going to determine the 22.4s dispatched workday will they start dissecting each route and loops and re arranging pickups ....... NEXT QUESTION . Will some rcpds now have a later start time ?? NEXT QUESTION!!

 

[Coldworld]

I still don’t know how everyone will get their hours on Wed, Thu and Fri. Some RPCD’s will be fine going home but not enough for the 22.4’s to get their 8. Our center has over 100 RPCD’s and they’re adding 25 22.4’s?

They are only going to add as many as is absolutely necessary.... I doubt you will see 25 at your building outside of peak or amazon prime week.... even with paying these 22.4 20 bucks and hour they will still have to pay into a pension AND healthcare that they don’t currently pay into for a seasonal or temporary drivers....they won’t put in extra runs for a new ft driver making 22 bucks an hour .. they sure in hell won’t be adding 25 new 22.4’s right Out if the date....I DONT like the language one bit but I believe some on here are thinking that these 22.4 will be taking over and they won’t... especially since many supplements put language into their contracts to combat this

 

[Coldworld]

I don't know your supplemental language so what I think might not be a 100% accurate. They will not go to 25% right away because 22.4 is guaranteed 8hrs/5 consecutive. If you're RPCDs have a guarantee then it will help keep the 22.4s in check. Monday is the real concern in most areas because of the "when work available" language.

There’s already language in my area that states that these 22.4 can be bumped on a sat or sun if a regular driver didn’t get their 5 punches....but I agree with you totally that they will be using these drivers sparingly because if they call someone up to be a 22.4 then all relief drivers have to be working no matter what... and if there’s no driving work that day they are going to be bumped into the hub working 8 hours... first the 22.4 then the relief driver and those hours will be charged to the hub, which Corp won’t like....there’s protection in place on these jobs but we all know how ups likes to manipulate things.... but I believe this will be voted down the first time anyway so it will go back to negotiations to be tweaked out...

 

[Dollar Chasing]

Oh my old friend @Dollar Chasing. Please share your extensive knowledge as to my what I said is optimistic? I'm sure you, who has no Sat operation can clear this all up for us.

The floor is yours sir.

Oh just all these imaginary things that you “know” the company will do.

 

[542thruNthru]

Because they won’t be doing the same job as a RPCD. Likely half their job inside, doing part-time work at a higher rate than part-timers, then running around doing spotty delivery or pickup work that doesn’t take the same effort. If you’ve ever worked on a Saturday delivering air, or worked a late shuttle day, you’d know what I mean. It’s waaaay easier work, so why does it deserve the same pay? The same veterans who want it to be paid the same are likely to be the ones who bid the class when it becomes available so that they can have an easier day. They just don’t want the hourly pay cut. Same thing happened with the 22.3s...

Saturday will be just like running air: more windshield time, less packages, less bulk businesses, less pickups, and so less pay.

This is asinine. No way people should get paid the same for running air or working in the building as they do out on the road.

no way a 22.4 or 22.3 should get paid the same as me. Besides, like I said in another post, once some of these RPCDs get a wind of how much less work these 22.4s are doing than they are, they’ll be clamoring for the job, just like they do for the 22.3 jobs. The main arguement I see on here and Facebook is that the 22.4s will be doing the same job for less money, but that’s not true because they won’t be doing the same job. This same arguement was made about the 22.3 jobs 10 years ago.

Incorrect. They won’t be doing the same work. If they got paid the same, then the class came in and you saw them doing less work for the same pay, then you would be crying about it being unfair, and you would be waiting to bid the job.

Oh just all these imaginary things that you “know” the company will do.

LOL! Yep you know all about imaginary things the company will do. Thanks again for your extensive knowledge of Saturday Ground Ops.

 

[Frankie's Friend]

Oh just all these imaginary things that you “know” the company will do.

Check out the back log of grievances at the national panel.

Those are the things the company does Dave, Jr.

 

[Dollar Chasing]

LOL! Yep you know all about imaginary things the company will do. Thanks again for your extensive knowledge of Saturday Ground Ops.

Lol keep it up.

 

[542thruNthru]

Lol keep it up.

Will do champ.

 

[Undertow]

There’s already language in my area that states that these 22.4 can be bumped on a sat or sun if a regular driver didn’t get their 5 punches....but I agree with you totally that they will be using these drivers sparingly because if they call someone up to be a 22.4 then all relief drivers have to be working no matter what... and if there’s no driving work that day they are going to be bumped into the hub working 8 hours... first the 22.4 then the relief driver and those hours will be charged to the hub, which Corp won’t like....there’s protection in place on these jobs but we all know how ups likes to manipulate things.... but I believe this will be voted down the first time anyway so it will go back to negotiations to be tweaked out...

If the "tweaking" doesn't include language guaranteeing a ban on later start times for RPCD's, it's gonna have a tough time passing in my neighborhood. Once the rumor of 10am start times took hold at our facility, the VOTE NO signs suddenly started to show up. That possibility really woke guys up to what could be potentially at stake.

 

[Dollar Chasing]

LOL! Yep you know all about imaginary things the company will do. Thanks again for your extensive knowledge of Saturday Ground Ops.

You so realize how hypocritical you’ve been this whole time, right? You constantly tell me that I don’t know about Sat Ops because we won’t have it, yet most of the country won’t run like your area. You are literally saying “you don’t know because you aren’t like us,” yet we could all say “you don’t know because you aren’t like us.” You’re in the minority, and it’s been proven again and again. Sure, lots of people agree with you, especially on here. It won’t matter. This contract will pass, and you’ll see what happens next, and for the most part, it won’t be like you think. That’s been proven again and again as well. Besides, again, you don’t know how it is everywhere else.

 

[542thruNthru]

You so realize how hypocritical you’ve been this whole time, right? You constantly tell me that I don’t know about Sat Ops because we won’t have it, yet most of the country won’t run like your area. You are literally saying “you don’t know because you aren’t like us,” yet we could all say “you don’t know because you aren’t like us.” You’re in the minority, and it’s been proven again and again. Sure, lots of people agree with you, especially on here. It won’t matter. This contract will pass, and you’ll see what happens next, and for the most part, it won’t be like you think. That’s been proven again and again as well. Besides, again, you don’t know how it is everywhere else.

Only reason I singled you out is because you like to attack people for their opinions. I unlike you do my best to make sure people know I'm talking about my area. I also back it up with language.

The post you marked as optimistic was to mooseknuckle who is in my area. So again what I was saying to him was what I deduced from the language in our region and Supplemental Rider. Am I 100% right, no not at all but if you were to discuss the issue with facts I'd more then willing to talk about it. Instead you demean people for doing the same thing you're doing, making uninformed guesses.

How about we agree to hear each other out and discuss the issue instead of attacking each other and other people we disagree with?

I have a feeling your for this contract because it doesn't affect you though. Am I wrong?

 

[TearsInRain]

It's not my fault you ran Saturday like complete morons. Picking out zipcodes instead of exactl addresses.

Guess is too much work for you guys to figure out?

The same for having to get a signature for a Sure post package at a commercial stop.


For God's sakes ,get off your high horse.

you can’t filter by address at a shipper level that’s impossible

 

[Over disciplined0123]

I agree with you! When I say next question I'm saying they wouldn't answer it. Real answer I mean. "These aren't the droids you're looking for. Move along."

Yea when you say next question I thought you were trying to avoid it and move on. Lol

 

[Over disciplined0123]

They are only going to add as many as is absolutely necessary.... I doubt you will see 25 at your building outside of peak or amazon prime week.... even with paying these 22.4 20 bucks and hour they will still have to pay into a pension AND healthcare that they don’t currently pay into for a seasonal or temporary drivers....they won’t put in extra runs for a new ft driver making 22 bucks an hour .. they sure in hell won’t be adding 25 new 22.4’s right Out if the date....I DONT like the language one bit but I believe some on here are thinking that these 22.4 will be taking over and they won’t... especially since many supplements put language into their contracts to combat this

Listen as I try and reiterate as to why make up a new class of lower paid drivers and not just promote the thousands of part timers to full time drivers at regular driver wage . They still never explained that question. Our workloads have tripled in last 5 years another thing that is hard to comprehend . I’ve been on same route for 15 years 5 years ago 105 stops was 8.00 to 8.50 paid day. 2017 Same route same area same pieces picked up and same mileage 130 was a 8.0 to 8.5 day .... Now for some crazy unknown reason and I ask for a 8.0 hr request it is now 150 stops is a 8.0 to 8.5 paid day with also same miles pieces, pickup pieces and all . All this new language with 22.4 drivers will do is exactly what UPS wants Driversdoing same jo for less money that will create controversy and resentment and a union busting tactic of employees against each other... Jsut go ask any person how they would feel if they found out another employee doing the same exact job is making 12 to 15 g more a year

 

[just chillin']

Jsut go ask any person how they would feel if they found out another employee doing the same exact job is making 12 to 15 g more a year

while im in no way for these 22.4 jobs, they difference in pay from one guy to another doesn't cause as much problems as one might think. at least in my experience. we had basically three types of paid guys all working the exact same preload for 20 years. you got your partimers then your fulltime 22.3 combo inside/inside guys and then your full time "red circled" top scale guys.

 

[Mooseknuckle]

Listen as I try and reiterate as to why make up a new class of lower paid drivers and not just promote the thousands of part timers to full time drivers at regular driver wage . They still never explained that question. Our workloads have tripled in last 5 years another thing that is hard to comprehend . I’ve been on same route for 15 years 5 years ago 105 stops was 8.00 to 8.50 paid day. 2017 Same route same area same pieces picked up and same mileage 130 was a 8.0 to 8.5 day .... Now for some crazy unknown reason and I ask for a 8.0 hr request it is now 150 stops is a 8.0 to 8.5 paid day with also same miles pieces, pickup pieces and all . All this new language with 22.4 drivers will do is exactly what UPS wants Driversdoing same jo for less money that will create controversy and resentment and a union busting tactic of employees against each other... Jsut go ask any person how they would feel if they found out another employee doing the same exact job is making 12 to 15 g more a year

Again, you are absolutely right!

 

[Over disciplined0123]

Hey buddy how long have you been here....Stick around like 25 to 30 years ))if you even make it that long while doing 180 stops a day and your knees fall off$). Since I been here 30 years it is not imaginary stuff the company will do I guess when ya been here that long you just sorta know from past practices ... any way or anything they can do to increase productivity while decreasing payroll by cutting routes daily (some even 1hr before start time because it’s borderline 8.15 paid day) That’s what they do ... Mark my words. And I’d love to hear you say you were wrong 3 yrs from now