A Repeat of 1997

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

All times and much different right now.
In my opinion the strike will be too costly to both sides
I also remember the strike of 97 and I was able to get Thanksgiving week off because it was begging people to use their days

Why can't you get that week now?

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

Why can't you get that week now?

I could if I really wanted it I'm saying I got to take it as a bonus week

 

[Faceplanted]

Imagine still voting. For anything in this country.

 

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

I could if I really wanted it I'm saying I got to take it as a bonus week

Wow you must have tons of seniority. Lol.

 

[1989]

I’ll bet the last best offer would have passed if it was voted on.

 

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

I’ll bet the last best offer would have passed if it was voted on.

Nah- strongest labor union in the world.

 

[DELACROIX]

I’ll bet the last best offer would have passed if it was voted on.

That is why Carey never put It up for vote.

Study the pension formula in the “last final Offer” in “97”.

50 dollars per year part time service

100 dollars per year full time, maxed out at 35 years.

The UPS pension take proposals over would of included all those healthy West Coast pensions which currently pays close to twice the “97” levels.

The retirees health a welfare cost was listed as 50 dollars a month per individual back in “97”..24 years ago..you know that would of went through the roof with the increasing health insurance rates. Study the 2013 company contract proposals early on concerning our Health and Welfare costs and co pays.

If the company got total control of our pensions you have solid factual evidence of what they would do to make a profit over the concerns or betterment of their employees.

 

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

That is why Carey never put It up for vote.

Study the pension formula in the “last final Offer” in “97”.

50 dollars per year part time service

100 dollars per year full time, maxed out at 35 years.

The UPS pension take proposals over would of included all those healthy West Coast pensions which currently pays close to twice the “97” levels.

The retirees health a welfare cost was listed as 50 dollars a month per individual back in “97”..24 years ago..you know that would of went through the roof with the increasing health insurance rates. Study the 2013 company contract proposals early on concerning our Health and Welfare costs and co pays.

If the company got total control of our pensions you have solid factual evidence of what they would do to make a profit over the concerns or betterment of their employees.

Of course you realize the pensions are not the same everywhere.

 

[DELACROIX]

Of course you realize the pensions are not the same everywhere.

They would of been back in “97” if the company got control. West, East, Central, Southern and in between..

 

[quad decade guy]

That is why Carey never put It up for vote.

Study the pension formula in the “last final Offer” in “97”.

50 dollars per year part time service

100 dollars per year full time, maxed out at 35 years.

The UPS pension take proposals over would of included all those healthy West Coast pensions which currently pays close to twice the “97” levels.

The retirees health a welfare cost was listed as 50 dollars a month per individual back in “97”..24 years ago..you know that would of went through the roof with the increasing health insurance rates. Study the 2013 company contract proposals early on concerning our Health and Welfare costs and co pays.

If the company got total control of our pensions you have solid factual evidence of what they would do to make a profit over the concerns or betterment of their employees.

Ok. Fair enough.

So, the Union still have their hands in the pensions....some(few) are jointly administered or some such.....ok.

And the result is......?

Failure or imminent failure.

My fear/concern: Union control=failure. Company control=failure(through bankruptcy or similar vehicles).

That's why I'd prefer almost any lump sum buyout. Within a fair reasonable amount.

 

[DELACROIX]

Ok. Fair enough.

So, the Union still have their hands in the pensions....some(few) are jointly administered or some such.....ok.

And the result is......?

Failure or imminent failure.

My fear/concern: Union control=failure. Company control=failure(through bankruptcy or similar vehicles).

That's why I'd prefer almost any lump sum buyout. Within a fair reasonable amount.

I believe that UPS is contributing around 500 a week per full timer into the Teamsters’ controlled pension plans...like the Peer 80/Western Conference...that is a hell of a lot investment potential if done correctly. 500 a week at a minimum of 8 % to a possible 17 % annual return..over 25 years..do the math.

Every pension plan that is controlled by UPS for example the UPS Pension Plan for primarily part timers and the UPS Retirement Plan for high salary management and non union employees are considered as “Defined Pension Funds”. They are only obligated to contribute at the end of the year to cover the promised benefits. So if the annual investment returns do well they save on their contributions. The secret is to limit any increases in benefits by moving the carrot .
Or eliminating any further monetary contributions or vesting, which they are now doing with the Management Plan in 2023.

There will be no buy out for the union employees or an early out..no lump bonus.. the company does not have too and the Union leadership would not like it ether.

We all have to see how this Central States bail out goes...both the Company and the Union are praying that it happens, and what would the Feds want in return for their investment?

We all should find out soon enough.

 

[quad decade guy]

I believe that UPS is contributing around 500 a week per full timer into the Teamsters’ controlled pension plans...like the Peer 80/Western Conference...that is a hell of a lot investment potential if done correctly. 500 a week at a minimum of 8 % to a possible 17 % annual return..over 25 years..do the math.

Every pension plan that is controlled by UPS for example the UPS Pension Plan for primarily part timers and the UPS Retirement Plan for high salary management and non union employees are considered as “Defined Pension Funds”. They are only obligated to contribute at the end of the year to cover the promised benefits. So if the annual investment returns do well they save on their contributions. The secret is to limit any increases in benefits by moving the carrot .
Or eliminating any further monetary contributions or vesting, which they are now doing with the Management Plan in 2023.

There will be no buy out for the union employees or an early out..no lump bonus.. the company does not have too and the Union leadership would not like it ether.

We all have to see how this Central States bail out goes...both the Company and the Union are praying that it happens, and what would the Feds want in return for their investment?

We all should find out soon enough.

Right the union doesn't want it. Why? Then they can't skim "fees" from a huge amount of money. Same for the company.

Your premise is just flawed. Investing "done right"......still involves great risk and luck.
I'd rather get mine in my hands. I do not trust the company, union or luck.

 

[DELACROIX]

Right the union doesn't want it. Why? Then they can't skim "fees" from a huge amount of money. Same for the company.

Your premise is just flawed. Investing "done right"......still involves great risk and luck.
I'd rather get mine in my hands. I do not trust the company, union or luck.

You are somewhat correct on the “Administrative Costs” associated with running a huge pension trust...how those fees are spent I haven’t a clue , I could imagine that there are investment fees paid to whoever is managing these funds.

The Union Leadership has no dealings with these
pension trusts or Health and Welfare plans, they have neutral actuaries that govern the dealings and they are required by law to act only for the betterment of the participants. Generally they are called “Plan Administrators” or “Board of Trustees”...in the case of UPS. They make the final decisions on each applicant’s request. I believe that the monthly meetings are recorded for liability reasons.

Federal law called ERISA also governs all pension and health and welfare plans...got a copy of it back in “94”...way over my head ...written by lawyers to be only read by other lawyers. The general attitude about this law is that it is a royal mess without any real penalties for arbitrary and capricious behavior.

The Department of Labor really does not want to prosecute or investigate any possible violations. So a lot of discrimination is being ignored or swept under the rug.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

You are somewhat correct on the “Administrative Costs” associated with running a huge pension trust...how those fees are spent I haven’t a clue , I could imagine that there are investment fees paid to whoever is managing these funds.

The Union Leadership has no dealings with these
pension trusts or Health and Welfare plans, they have neutral actuaries that govern the dealings and they are required by law to act only for the betterment of the participants. Generally they are called “Plan Administrators” or “Board of Trustees”...in the case of UPS. They make the final decisions on each applicant’s request. I believe that the monthly meetings are recorded for liability reasons.

Federal law called ERISA also governs all pension and health and welfare plans...got a copy of it back in “94”...way over my head ...written by lawyers to be only read by other lawyers. The general attitude about this law is that it is a royal mess without any real penalties for arbitrary and capricious behavior.

The Department of Labor really does not want to prosecute or investigate any possible violations. So a lot of discrimination is being ignored or swept under the rug.

But it is quite amazing how many Union officials have friends and families sitting on the boards get nice big fat paychecks

 

[DELACROIX]

But it is quite amazing how many Union officials have friends and families sitting on the boards get nice big fat paychecks

I do not know how these plan administrators or board of trustees are selected.. googled the average salary of a plan administrator of a large pension fund..around 150,000. I could be wrong about this but it may be a separate salary from their other corporate positions.

I expect that those board members would be active senior Company or Union executives already on salary. They work with legal and HR to keep it legit.

 

[Whereistheunion]

Is a repeat of 1997 ever possible again? I was in high school when my dad went on strike in '97, and I will never forget the pride he felt standing up to this company. The membership was involved, united, and brought UPS to its knees. Good memories indeed. If UPS brings its typical scumbaggery to the negotiating table during upcoming contract negotiations, will the current membership have the unity, critical thinking skills, and fortitude to vote to strike if necessary? I'm not optimistic. The IBT is a shell of what it once was. Fear, apathy, and selfishness have polluted the ranks. I'm putting money away and will vote "no" if the contract is trash. If another "best contract ever" is pushed through, the dominoes will begin to fall, in my humble opinion, and the decline will accelerate.

I feel the same, and yes I was on the picket line in 97. Let's talk about the difference between now and then. UPS is better positioned to withstand a STRIKE, with well trained SCABS ( PVD) drivers we aren't moving as much of the nation's GDP vs 1997. Amazon is a material threat to UPS and can financially impair this company. Our new president can lock us out and we wouldn't be missed. So, it is smart to begin saving our money now for a prolonged work stoppage. Did your Dad share with you that our Union only gave us a 1 time 50.00 dollar payout during our 15 day strike. After that payout the UNION strike fund went broke; they owed us another 50.00 dollars that we never received.

 

[Whereistheunion]

We couldn't even get enough teamsters to vote on the last contract , so , I'd say no repeat of our 97 strike

Rumor is big mamma gonna say buy buy teamsters

You really believe, our new BOSS will Buy the teamsters union. It's a possibility that I couldn't have imagined and if that happens we are DOOMED as a UNIIONIZED workforce. Will add this to my list of worst case scenarios. 1. LOCKOUT 2. Union forces another bad contract down our throat. 3. Amazon forces us out of business. 4. ( PVD) doing our work for unspecified period while we STRIKE and all of management cover part time positions. 5. UPS buys the TEAMSTERS union and shuts it down.

 

[Brown287]

I feel the same, and yes I was on the picket line in 97. Let's talk about the difference between now and then. UPS is better positioned to withstand a STRIKE, with well trained SCABS ( PVD) drivers we aren't moving as much of the nation's GDP vs 1997. Amazon is a material threat to UPS and can financially impair this company. Our new president can lock us out and we wouldn't be missed. So, it is smart to begin saving our money now for a prolonged work stoppage. Did your Dad share with you that our Union only gave us a 1 time 50.00 dollar payout during our 15 day strike. After that payout the UNION strike fund went broke; they owed us another 50.00 dollars that we never received.

So true, but remember it was $55. Don’t want to forget about the other $5.

 

[35years]

I do not know how these plan administrators or board of trustees are selected.. googled the average salary of a plan administrator of a large pension fund..around 150,000. I could be wrong about this but it may be a separate salary from their other corporate positions.

I expect that those board members would be active senior Company or Union executives already on salary. They work with legal and HR to keep it legit.

I think you need to do a bit more "research ".

Legit?
Last time I checked our pension admins made $650,000 a year to run a failing pension. And yes, amazing how many are former Union officials or family.

It's not exactly a secret.

 

[DELACROIX]

I think you need to do a bit more "research ".

Legit?
Last time I checked our pension admins made $650,000 a year to run a failing pension. And yes, amazing how many are former Union officials or family.

It's not exactly a secret.

I did not know that...stand corrected...

Thanks for the info...