Advice on accident

[InsideUPS]

I had an intersection accident last week. I start with a short summary of the accident.

UPS has let me work inside, calling it an in house suspension. They are waiting for the damage amount from the accident. I live in a no fault insurance state but that doesnt matter for UPS they add in her damages too. Both vehicles drove away and no one went to the hospital. The UPS vehicle damages were $1500 for bent bumper, cracked fiberglass and a sliced tire (not flat). Most union ppl and other drivers say I have a good case. I had 1 other accident 4 years ago that was a busted taillight. Do I have a shot of getting this set as unavoidable at the hearing?

The fact that UPS is allowing you to work inside is an excellent indicator that you will retain your job. The fact that the other driver was cited is also in your favor. In regard to having UPS determining the accident... "unavoidable"........sorry, I seriously doubt it. I really cannot think of any accident at our center that was ever determined as unavoidable.

 

[soberups]

Hearing this makes me glad to work under the superior protection of the Western Region supplement. We have no arbitrary "$4400 and you're fired" rule out here, our language regarding cardinal infractions instead reads "recklessness resulting in a serious accident while on duty." This places the burden of proof on the company to show that (a) the emplyee was reckless and (b) the accident was serious. In this case, the other party being cited by the police takes the "reckless" factor out of the equation, and both parties being able to drive away from the scene with no injuries and nothing but body damage to the vehicles does not qualify as "serious". And by the way, being able to regurgitate the DOK has no bearing on whether or not the employee will be reinstated if the case goes to panel.

 

[ups hero]

After hearing stories like this, why would anyone really want to drive for the company. Yes, I know full time , better pension(full time to part time) and lots of overtime to get a nice paycheck, but all that stress they put uou through...I'm a preloader, my job is tough, but nothing like it is for you package car drivers. Respect goes out to all of you who drive. I really want full time more than anything. I just don't want to drive and deal with situations like this driver had. No way at fault, yet in the company's eyes "always at fault". Like I said, RESPECT to you all!!

 

[nate4027]

I don't understand how depth of knowledge would help someone keep their job. Does it say anywhere in the contract that you must know the depth of knowledge? Kind of like production standards, they are non existent in the contract therefore I do not need to meet a certain stops per hour or pieces per hour.

 

[sortaisle]

It's considered dishonesty. We had a gal who rear ended someone once and she couldn't quote the DOK and her termination stuck because it was "dishonesty". They can swing it to their advantage whenever they want basically. It's a known blind corner. Your accident will stick as avoidable. I do sympathize with you. If you do get to keep driving whenever you get to that intersection creep through it every day honking your horn. I'd rather lose 3 seconds than my job. I would rather UPS do their own sinking than having me help them.

 

[Brownslave688]

It's considered dishonesty. We had a gal who rear ended someone once and she couldn't quote the DOK and her termination stuck because it was "dishonesty". They can swing it to their advantage whenever they want basically. It's a known blind corner. Your accident will stick as avoidable. I do sympathize with you. If you do get to keep driving whenever you get to that intersection creep through it every day honking your horn. I'd rather lose 3 seconds than my job. I would rather UPS do their own sinking than having me help them.

Your BA should be fired then. That's a load of crap. There must be more to this story.

 

[sortaisle]

I do not disagree with you. My BA is overworked and too used to trading cases like baseball cards. Plus I'm sure the rear ending cost more than $4400. I don't know...if I were a BA and I had a member who didn't care to know the safety related aspects of the DOK I'd be loathe to defend them all the way too. It can't be easy to defend someone that lackadaisical.

 

[Brownslave688]

I do not disagree with you. My BA is overworked and too used to trading cases like baseball cards. Plus I'm sure the rear ending cost more than $4400. I don't know...if I were a BA and I had a member who didn't care to know the safety related aspects of the DOK I'd be loathe to defend them all the way too. It can't be easy to defend someone that lackadaisical.

I understand the DOK and practice them. I can by no means recite them.

Thank goodness your not a BA.

 

[nate4027]

We did NOT sign some sort of contract stating we will recite the DOK word for word. Let the company think what they want but that is not considered dishonesty in the court of law. Using UPS's safe work methods and DOK doesn't always prevent an accident from happening. I went through driving school and still couldn't recite the DOK but was passed anyways. Also can't recite the safe work methods word for word when asked by supervisors but they can't force them down my throat either. Bottom line is its not about safety in UPS's eyes its about numbers and we all know that.

 

[sortaisle]

I didn't say anything about reciting them. She couldn't even get close. She wasn't mixing information, she was seriously clueless and didn't care. I liked her but I can't imagine not caring for at all about the safety involved. She was undefendable.

 

[nate4027]

Ok thanks for the clarification but I hope you understand where I'm coming from. Another good point to make is the DOK and safe work methods are a great tool to use against "production standards" and for that I am thankful for the company to instill these methods in us lol.

 

[sortaisle]

I also agree we didn't sign anything based on safety and yes, UPS's top priority is production. It's despicable that they two face it. It's a CYA world and no one does it better than UPS. For myself...and myself only I just happen to be able to retain 95% of the word for word. I've yet to be disciplined for it and if I ever do, I will fight it for sure. But it's infinitely easier for me to know the DOK and not worry about getting harassed. I recommend it for that reason but I don't look down on folks who don't.

 

[Big Babooba]

...and we all know how "qualified" those off-the-street hires are...

Weren't you an off the street hire?

 

[Big Babooba]

No chance of getting it made unavoidable. While there is no question in my mind that there is no fault on your part. That changes nothing in the ups eye. If your hit by a comet they would probable say you should have been aware of 360 degree surroundings
Hope for the best, expect the worst. Start looking into a lawyer

My sister's first car was a 1960 Mercury Comet. I could provide you a list of things that she hit but a list of things that she missed would be much shorter.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Hearing this makes me glad to work under the superior protection of the Western Region supplement. We have no arbitrary "$4400 and you're fired" rule out here, our language regarding cardinal infractions instead reads "recklessness resulting in a serious accident while on duty." This places the burden of proof on the company to show that (a) the emplyee was reckless and (b) the accident was serious. In this case, the other party being cited by the police takes the "reckless" factor out of the equation, and both parties being able to drive away from the scene with no injuries and nothing but body damage to the vehicles does not qualify as "serious". And by the way, being able to regurgitate the DOK has no bearing on whether or not the employee will be reinstated if the case goes to panel.

Same here. The Southern Supplement has many flaws but this isn't one of them.

 

[Box_Junkie]

Well its better than I expected. No discipline was taken and I'm on vacation this week. The investigation time limit is the mon. I return. Only thing center manager requested I do was a demonstration to the driver group of how the accident happened. I sat in a package car and went through the motions on clearing intersections and told the accident story. No dollar amount was ever mentioned to me. I suspect when I return I'll have my "talk" with the DM and a couple ride a longs.

 

[Re-Raise]

Well its better than I expected. No discipline was taken and I'm on vacation this week. The investigation time limit is the mon. I return. Only thing center manager requested I do was a demonstration to the driver group of how the accident happened. I sat in a package car and went through the motions on clearing intersections and told the accident story. No dollar amount was ever mentioned to me. I suspect when I return I'll have my "talk" with the DM and a couple ride a longs.

That's good. It could happen to any of us. Your story will remind me to take a little extra time clearing intersections.