Another example of Central States mismanagement

[JonFrum]

Re: Central States: 63% Funded, And Rising; Not 47% And Falling Toward Zero

WOW jon the fund has grown 15% IN JUST A FEW MONTHS. i MEAN WE HAVE SEEN ON HERE AND ELSEWHERE JUST A FEW MONTHS AGO IT WAS 47.5%. sorry for all the caps oops!

Mittam,
Engineer 79 likes to quote financial data that is several years old, TDU likes to quote financial data that is as up-to-date as possible. I think all data is revelant, but the most current data is the most revelant. (Although even current data may be a bit outdated as long as the stock market keeps going up.)

Badpas,
The turnaround already took place. No need to wait. Every year the plan should steadily improve.

You do understand that whatever you Central States folks decide to do from this point on, you will always be members of the Central States pension fund, and you will be paid a Central States pension, based on your vested credits, when the time comes. You can't "unring the bell." What's done is done. Infact, you're stuck making hourly contributions to the fund at least until July 31, 2008! I think you should be concerned with the health of the fund since you'll be dependant on it until the day you die, and for several years after, if you have a surviving spouse.

If you have an alternative to Central States for your *future* contributions, please state *specificially* what the alternative is and provide all the details. Then we can all evaluate it. Everyone probably thinks they can do better in an IRA, or a 401(k), or a self-managed account, or a single-employer fund, etc., but you will all have to agree on what your alternative is, spell it out, then make it happen. Why won't you guys get specific?

 

[sawdusttv]

Re: Central States: 63% Funded, And Rising; Not 47% And Falling Toward Zero

Mittam,
Engineer 79 likes to quote financial data that is several years old, TDU likes to quote financial data that is as up-to-date as possible. I think all data is revelant, but the most current data is the most revelant. (Although even current data may be a bit outdated as long as the stock market keeps going up.)

Badpas,
The turnaround already took place. No need to wait. Every year the plan should steadily improve.

You do understand that whatever you Central States folks decide to do from this point on, you will always be members of the Central States pension fund, and you will be paid a Central States pension, based on your vested credits, when the time comes. You can't "unring the bell." What's done is done. Infact, you're stuck making hourly contributions to the fund at least until July 31, 2008! I think you should be concerned with the health of the fund since you'll be dependant on it until the day you die, and for several years after, if you have a surviving spouse.

If you have an alternative to Central States for your *future* contributions, please state *specificially* what the alternative is and provide all the details. Then we can all evaluate it. Everyone probably thinks they can do better in an IRA, or a 401(k), or a self-managed account, or a single-employer fund, etc., but you will all have to agree on what your alternative is, spell it out, then make it happen. Why won't you guys get specific?

Jon,

The answer to your question is that we are truck drivers not accountants and we are all just on this forum trying to figure things out.
However, I do know that the latest UPS offer of 8.2 billion dollars is to pull ALL UPS employees out of ALL teamster multi-employer pension plans, (completely out), which includes our vested interests in each plan.

 

[Bill]

Re: If you have actual evidence of wrongdoing, file charges!!!

Engineer 79,
First, I wonder if you overlooked the top item on the Central States Form 5500 for 2005, Schedule C:

"Enter the total dollar amount of compensation paid by the plan to all persons, other than those listed below, who received compensation during the plan year: $16,217,161."

That $16 million is easy to miss because it is not in the same format as all the other entries.

Second, the government's Form 5500 Schedule C specifically states that only the top forty Service Provider payments are to be listed. [ I think they stole "Service Provider" from UPS, and "top forty" from Casey Casem and AM radio. ] The smallest payment listed is for $72,508. All smaller payments are not listed. From the instructions on the form itself: ". . . list service providers in descending order of the compensation they received for the services rendered during the plan year. List only the top 40. . . ."

Third, you can review the Schedule H instructions I quoted earlier and assume that the fund also spent money on the smaller items listed in the instructions, but not required to be itemized in Schedule C.

The 2005 H & W fund is covered by a Fidelity Bond of $3 million dollars. You will sleep easier now that you know the Fund is protected against loss from theft or fraud, won't you? The Pension Fund is protected by a $3 million Fidelity Bond as well. Turn in any wrongdoers, and the Surety Company will make the Fund whole.

Any one else wanting to obtain Form 5500 Annual Reports easily online can learn how here . . .
http://www.browncafe.com/community/threads/ups-subsidizing-non-ups-pensions.27725/

Why doesn't the plan list who the $16,217,161 is paid to? Who is receiving this money? Even if we deduct this $16 million, there is still approximately $15,000,000 in unexplained money.

 

[705red]

Either you are retarded or just acting stupid. AS you can see in the previous post, there still seems to be a discrepancy of over $31,000,000. Where do you think this money went?
I just told you and others have told you where the APWA money is coming from. I even answered that in the post that you responded to. You see what you want to see. Open your eyes already. Central States is broke. The ship is sinking fast. It can no longer be fixed. The Teamsters have no answers, no solutions. All I keep hearing from you and your cronies is the same stupid questions that have been answered repeatedly. I have posted the same question to you over and over again, but you choose to ignore it. What are the Teamsters doing to fix the pension problem? You don't have an answer, the Teamsters don't have a clue, so you nit-pick on minor issues and divert attention away from the main issue.
OK big Teamster man, answer these two questions for me or do what you always do. Ignore the questions I pose to you and keep asking me to show you where the APWA money is. Where is the money the Teamsters have? HUH? Where is the 31 million dollar shortage in administration fees? What do the Teamsters plan on doing to correct the pension plan? I don't expect an answer from you, because you have none or you will give me an answer unrelated to the questions.

E you are a waste of time! You cry, cry,cry and jon answers you and you still cry! Now i will be better than you you, because if i say what i really think of you i will be banned for life from the browncafe. So now that jon has explained to you how to read financial forms, can you please tell us where the apwas money is coming from! If not go tuck tail forever and spread your hatred somewhere else!

 

[705red]

Red I'm confused you said ups was just as crooked then gave an example of an employee UPS had locked up for being crooked?

Its a real simple question Red that I think todays upsers have a right to ask. How do we really know the mob is out of the teamsters pension? Did they just up and walk away one day?[/quote
The employee who stole $800,000 was in management, when you live in glass houses its not nice to throw stoes, thats all im saying.

Tie maybe our ie department can look into the pension and come up with a mob free plan, I would rather stay in the mobbed up plan than allow ie to come up with my pension numbers.

 

[tieguy]

The employee who stole $800,000 was in management, when you live in glass houses its not nice to throw stoes, thats all im saying.

Red not throwing stones asking a question that needs to be asked.

Tie maybe our ie department can look into the pension and come up with a mob free plan, I would rather stay in the mobbed up plan than allow ie to come up with my pension numbers.

Thats a little bit of a side step Red. I'm not accusing you of bringing the mob into the teamster pension fund. I'm not sure why you are taking it personal. I'm asking a simple question which is how do we really know the mob is out of the pension business? Especially in the big cities where the mob is the strongest such as new york and chicago?

 

[area43]

Re: Central States: 63% Funded, And Rising; Not 47% And Falling Toward Zero

Engineer 79,
Just like a supertanker, it initially takes a while to turn around a huge pension fund,

(violens playing,titanic) Dude!!!!!! I sure dont want to be on that ship. Dont you know that there s less and less working guys and gals shoveling the coal to make the mighty ship go. While on the other hand there's more and more passengers on deck. Yes, we are slowly turning but one strong wave could knock us off course again. Then what, we hit an Iceberg. Good God, who's at the wheel ? Look folks, theres no one at the wheel and wait, look over there in the life boat, its the teamsters(waving,blowing kisses and the life boat filled with empty beer cans). lmao

 

[705red]

The employee who stole $800,000 was in management, when you live in glass houses its not nice to throw stoes, thats all im saying.

Red not throwing stones asking a question that needs to be asked.

Tie maybe our ie department can look into the pension and come up with a mob free plan, I would rather stay in the mobbed up plan than allow ie to come up with my pension numbers.

Thats a little bit of a side step Red. I'm not accusing you of bringing the mob into the teamster pension fund. I'm not sure why you are taking it personal. I'm asking a simple question which is how do we really know the mob is out of the pension business? Especially in the big cities where the mob is the strongest such as new york and chicago?

Im not taking it personal tie. What i am saying is both sides have unfavorables working for them. Im sure if the mob is in it like you insist, it will be a matter of time before they get caught. But if i were you i would stop bad mouthing the mob, they have ways to find people! Whos knows maybe they will just start wacking everyone at ups with ties on. If i hear anything about this at my monthly meeting i will warn you to insure youe safety, but you will have to do me a favor and make sure the ie guys are wearing their ties.

 

[JonFrum]

Re: If you have actual evidence of wrongdoing, file charges!!!

Why doesn't the plan list who the $16,217,161 is paid to? Who is receiving this money? Even if we deduct this $16 million, there is still approximately $15,000,000 in unexplained money.

Engineer 79,
Form 5500 is an *Annual* Report, just like the 1040 Tax Return you file every year. As such, it deals with yearly totals. If you want greater detail, you'll have to look elsewhere. As it says at the top of the form, the Form 5500 is used by the U. S. Treasury Department (IRS), the Department of Labor (Pension and Welfare Benefits Administration), and the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation. The form is required by ERISA and the Internal Revenue Code. The form specifically says: "Complete all entries in accordance with the instructions to the Form 5500." If you have a problem with the form, your quarrel is with the U. S. Government (Congress,) not the Fund.

The form was signed under penalty of perjury by Howard McDougall and Fred Gregare on 10/16/2006, who declared: "Under penalties of perjury and other penalties set forth in the instructions, I declare that I have examined this return/report, including accompanying schedules, statements and attachments, and to the best of my knowledge and belief, it is true, correct, and complete."

"3. The opinion of an independent qualified public accountant [ Deloitte & Touche LLP ] for this plan is attached to this Form 5500 and the opinion is: Unqualified." [meaning no problems.]

In addition to the $3 million Surety Bond protection, question 4f says : "Did the plan have a loss, whether or not reimbursed by the plan's fidelity bond, that was caused by fraud or dishonesty? No."

The Employer and Union Trustees all have a Fiduciary Duty to operate the fund for the sole benefit of the participants and beneficiaries. This duty also extends to some other fund decisionmakers as well.

Since no Contract Administrator fees are listed in Schedules C or H, I assume the fund handles these clerical chores by using its own employees, most of whom would be part of the $16 million (but I don't really know.)

Did you look at the Schedule H Instructions to see the kinds of smaller-ticket items that the fund undoubtedly spends money on, even if they didn't make the "top forty" on Schedule C? Did you read the quarterly reports to Judge Moran?

Check back through the years for past form 5500s. Maybe some item, or Service Provider, or Individual, or clerical employee, made the "top forty" one year but not in other years. Perhaps you could assume that expenditure occurs year after year, but it just didn't always make the "top forty."

I'm using the online FreeErisaDotCom version of the form. You can get a fuller version (with greater details) directly from the fund by paying copying costs. It may have an audit report, or a report of an Enrolled Actuary.

You should direct your questions to the Fund itself. I'm not even in the Fund. All I know is what I gather on the Internet.

Let us all know what charges you file, and who'll be goin' to the slammer!

 

[JonFrum]

DisOrganized Crime

Its a real simple question Red that I think todays upsers have a right to ask. How do we really know the mob is out of the teamsters pension? Did they just up and walk away one day?

No one can say for sure, because the Mob is a secretive, illegal outfit. But the last few pages of every issue of the monthly Teamsters magazine has been documenting the fight to rid the Teamsters of Mob influence since the Consent Decree was signed in 1989!

Visit www.irbcases.org

 

[badpas]

Re: Central States: 63% Funded, And Rising; Not 47% And Falling Toward Zero

Mittam,
Engineer 79 likes to quote financial data that is several years old, TDU likes to quote financial data that is as up-to-date as possible. I think all data is revelant, but the most current data is the most revelant. (Although even current data may be a bit outdated as long as the stock market keeps going up.)

Badpas,
The turnaround already took place. No need to wait. Every year the plan should steadily improve.

You do understand that whatever you Central States folks decide to do from this point on, you will always be members of the Central States pension fund, and you will be paid a Central States pension, based on your vested credits, when the time comes. You can't "unring the bell." What's done is done. Infact, you're stuck making hourly contributions to the fund at least until July 31, 2008! I think you should be concerned with the health of the fund since you'll be dependant on it until the day you die, and for several years after, if you have a surviving spouse.

If you have an alternative to Central States for your *future* contributions, please state *specificially* what the alternative is and provide all the details. Then we can all evaluate it. Everyone probably thinks they can do better in an IRA, or a 401(k), or a self-managed account, or a single-employer fund, etc., but you will all have to agree on what your alternative is, spell it out, then make it happen. Why won't you guys get specific?

Jon, I have been specific and your right for what ups puts into the pension fund that we've earned it wouldn't take a financial planner to earn more than 4%. This is roughly what cs has made all of us for along time. The point is your view on taking additional care of the cs fund because we're stuck with it is just that your view. And yes I agree with the " unringing of the bell" but at the same time if you really believe the ship has turned around why hasn't cs come forward to show everything will be better in the long run when all they have done is prove they can cut pensions instead of increase bennifits. Bottom line is we should be getting what the mechanics are getting but we don't. And even in other area's like chicago their not getting what the mechanics are getting either. That is why we could do alot better "specifically" leave cs and even if we don't get anymore than we get now at least our pension would be safer than it is now. Since there are more people withdrawing than those contributing which is one of the real reasons the ship will never turn around. So again if beating a dead horse{so to speak} is your idea of taking care of something like this its obvious you've never been in a situation like this and be thankful for that I wish I weren't in it either. But even still we all have to make a decision based on the information at hand based on how many years we may have left, health, money for retirement and so on. For that everyones decision will be different but the end result will have to be the same. So ya see I have at least 15 years to go baring any unforseen health questions which is plenty of time to right all the wrongs by cs. I have no trouble saving for my future and I know deversifing is the best choice but depending on a group who has not shown me any reason to be loyal let alone a fund that not only doesn't pay me what I've earned and will never I have no other choice but to look elsewhere. However let me ask this, have you called anyone from the apwa yet, if not let me know and I promise you they will answer your questions. I know some people say they never get any return but I've never had a problem getting in touch with either of them.

 

[mittam]

Re: Central States: 63% Funded, And Rising; Not 47% And Falling Toward Zero

badpas, just what you said is why it will never get turned around. There are more collecting than putting in. This fund is ran as social security is run. That is a very poor plan. The only way toturn it around is having it ran for each person, individually, that is the only way it will grow. The plan on a whole is set up to fail, and has! Now we are paying for the planned failure! Totally srapping it and starting over would be more efficient than trying to cure the ails we now have.

 

[wildgoose]

Re: DisOrganized Crime

No one can say for sure, because the Mob is a secretive, illegal outfit. But the last few pages of every issue of the monthly Teamsters magazine has been documenting the fight to rid the Teamsters of Mob influence since the Consent Decree was signed in 1989!

Visit www.irbcases.org

Thats it killing one roach at a time

 

[705red]

Re: DisOrganized Crime

Thats it killing one roach at a time

You ask for signs on how the ibt is trying to clean out the corruption and fix the pension plans, and when its shown to you you still complain! Face it you will never be happy until you are successful at decertifying the teamsters from ups and leaving us union less.

 

[wildgoose]

Re: DisOrganized Crime

You ask for signs on how the ibt is trying to clean out the corruption and fix the pension plans, and when its shown to you you still complain! Face it you will never be happy until you are successful at decertifying the teamsters from ups and leaving us union less.

Not union less just corruption less !

 

[705red]

Re: DisOrganized Crime

Not union less just corruption less !

And what do you call it when van and danny start throwing people out of their meetings?

 

[Bill]

Re: DisOrganized Crime

And what do you call it when van and danny start throwing people out of their meetings?

They don't throw people out of their meetings that act civilized. They only get thrown out when they are disruptive. THe Teamsters are trying to prevent the truth from coming out, so they attempt to disrupt the meetings. No one is preventing them from asking questions, but they take it a step further, and that is why they are being thrown out.

 

[705red]

Re: DisOrganized Crime

They don't throw people out of their meetings that act civilized. They only get thrown out when they are disruptive. THe Teamsters are trying to prevent the truth from coming out, so they attempt to disrupt the meetings. No one is preventing them from asking questions, but they take it a step further, and that is why they are being thrown out.

Come on! Isnt it true that when the hard questions get asked they accuse the asker of being a teamster loyalist and throw them out? I think its the apwa doing a good duck, tuck, and tail manuever to get out of there when the crowd isnt brainwashed to believe that van and danny are the second coming of jesus and moses.

 

[Bill]

E you are a waste of time! You cry, cry,cry and jon answers you and you still cry! Now i will be better than you you, because if i say what i really think of you i will be banned for life from the browncafe. So now that jon has explained to you how to read financial forms, can you please tell us where the apwas money is coming from! If not go tuck tail forever and spread your hatred somewhere else![/quot
I really don't care what you think of me, but I do know from reading your garbage is that you are a maroon. Who else but a Teamster BA or higher up in this corrupt organization would keep defending CS ineptitude (look it up).
I know how to read financial forms, unlike the uneducated maroon that you are. Jon has not explained where the missing $15,000,000 is, or who is getting the $16,217,161 as listed on schedule C, line 1. According to Jon, only the first 40 are listed, and if this is so, then the others receiving compensation are included in line 1, but there is still a discrepancy (look it up) of approximately $15,000,000. I didn't want to resort to calling you anything, but your stupidity flabbergasts (look it up) me.

 

[Bill]

Re: DisOrganized Crime

Come on! Isnt it true that when the hard questions get asked they accuse the asker of being a teamster loyalist and throw them out? I think its the apwa doing a good duck, tuck, and tail manuever to get out of there when the crowd isnt brainwashed to believe that van and danny are the second coming of jesus and moses.

I have been to one of their meetings. Many questions were asked over a few hours, and Dan and Van answered every one of them. They weren't going to leave until we were all satisfied. No one has been thrown out for asking a tough question, only those people who were disruptive so that the meeting couldn't continue.