Any other centers using AI for their routes

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

You MAY be entitled. If you can prove it’s excessive and retaliatory.

Lol.

 

[Thebrownblob]

Lol.

IKR

 

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

Well, so far, nobody agrees that 9.5 is excessive I’ve been told possibly 10.5 lol .
Good thing none of you run feeders...

 

[Thebrownblob]

E

Good thing none if you run feeders...

The language is in there if people want to be on the 95., personally, I like getting 10 or 11 every day. Many of the guys who don’t want hours in package car go to Feeders and want to to work 12 every day

 

[Brown Down]

The language is in there if people want to be on the 95., personally, I like getting 10 or 11 every day. Many of the guys who don’t want hours in package car go to Feeders and want to to work 12 every day

I wouldn't mind working 10 hours if it was just my damn route and it was left alone but this company can ever seem to leave anything alone that's working.

 

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

The language is in there if people want to be on the 95., personally, I like getting 10 or 11 every day. Many of the guys who don’t want hours in package car go to Feeders and want to to work 12 every day

Both departments suck.

 

[Thebrownblob]

I wouldn't mind working 10 hours if it was just my damn route and it was left alone but this company can ever seem to leave anything alone that's working.

New dispatch system dispatched three different routes on my truck yesterday L O L. Fun times.

 

[Thebrownblob]

Both departments suck.

As Long as the check keeps cashing brother

 

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

As Long as the check keeps cashing brother

Valid but the place sucks.

 

[Thebrownblob]

Valid but the place sucks.

Most things are what you make of them

 

[burrheadd]

not enough people to fix it anymore, they nuked that path

More excuses

 

[100%ORIONComplianceGuy]

Read it. You'll understand.

I’ve read it more times than many. It makes total sense that we are due penalty pay for anything over 9.5 hours for those two days. Only the company, and company men, think otherwise.

Remember, we weren’t going to have cameras in the cab either and now we do.

Just another example of weakness. Which is likely at play in this topic as well.

Yeah, it's the company's solver bullet. Kinda ed us.

Because we allowed them to.

Read it. You'll understand.

it says we can get penalty pay if worked over 9.5 hours two days in a week. Pretty easy to understand. also obvious to see that “excessive” is anything over 9.5.

I can see you haven’t had to sit across the table from UPS very many times regarding language in the contract.

I have been around a while. I don’t need to sit across the table from the company to know how they think. And just because that’s how they think doesn’t mean that is what should be accepted by those who are sitting on our side.

Remember, we had a decision that said you had 2 9.5 grievances before you got paid for your excessive overtime. Everything is not as black-and-white as some people would imagine.

Nope. Never heard of it. Sounds like another example of weakness. Why talk all that leading up to negotiations and sit in a hotel conference room for days/weeks and scare our customers only to cave so easily once the company disputes language?

It's one of the biggest problems we keep letting vague language into these damn contracts acting like it'll work out and it never has. Sometimes we are our own worst enemy think of UPS will do things the right way

I bet if someone were to ask a bunch of people on the outside to read the entirety of the 9.5 language and then ask them how they interpret that most would agree that we are due penalty pay for anything over 9.5 hours for those two days. I think that most of you disputing it in this forum actually agree as well, but sadly, at some point conceded on the issue because of how UPS behaves across the table. That is why they gets away with so many things.

Yes, our negotiators could do a better job at writing some of these things. But they are the ones who have come up with the language and added to it so they are the ones that know exactly what it is supposed to mean. They should fight like hell and to the end to secure it with precedence. It cave with the attitude “Well shucks! We’ll fix it in five years.”

 

[Thebrownblob]

I’ve read it more times than many. It makes total sense that we are due penalty pay for anything over 9.5 hours for those two days. Only the company, and company men, think otherwise.

Just another example of weakness. Which is likely at play in this topic as well.


Because we allowed them to.

it says we can get penalty pay if worked over 9.5 hours two days in a week. Pretty easy to understand. also obvious to see that “excessive” is anything over 9.5.

I have been around a while. I don’t need to sit across the table from the company to know how they think. And just because that’s how they think doesn’t mean that is what should be accepted by those who are sitting on our side.

Nope. Never heard of it. Sounds like another example of weakness. Why talk all that leading up to negotiations and sit in a hotel conference room for days/weeks and scare our customers only to cave so easily once the company disputes language?

I bet if someone were to ask a bunch of people on the outside to read the entirety of the 9.5 language and then ask them how they interpret that most would agree that we are due penalty pay for anything over 9.5 hours for those two days. I think that most of you disputing it in this forum actually agree as well, but sadly, at some point conceded on the issue because of how UPS behaves across the table. That is why they gets away with so many things.

Yes, our negotiators could do a better job at writing some of these things. But they are the ones who have come up with the language and added to it so they are the ones that know exactly what it is supposed to mean. They should fight like hell and to the end to secure it with precedence. It cave with the attitude “Well shucks! We’ll fix it in five years.”

Because there’s a chance you and I don’t get to decide that. we can argue it. We can file a grievance. We disagree with it, but at the end of the day language interpretation is done throughout life of the contract through local hearings, panels, JACs and nationals and even sometimes arbitration.

Don’t misunderstand me I agree with your opinion that it should be upheld, but I have to live in the real world where I have to abide by agreements that are above your and my head.

 

[Just A UPS Guy]

I’ve read it more times than many. It makes total sense that we are due penalty pay for anything over 9.5 hours for those two days. Only the company, and company men, think otherwise.

it says we can get penalty pay if worked over 9.5 hours two days in a week. Pretty easy to understand. also obvious to see that “excessive” is anything over 9.5.

You may have read it, doubtful you did in full, but you're arguing a point that does not exist, it's very straight forward.

"The Company will not assign excessive over-
time on the two (2) remaining days within the workweek in order to
retaliate against a driver for opting onto the 9.5 List. If the employer
is found to have assigned excessive overtime for the remaining two
days in violation of this provision"

The penalty is not over 9.5 hours, it's over retaliation. I don't disagree with you about what's excessive or that there's a provision in there, it's the language and context if the provision.

I don't think you should he over 9.5 once if you're on the list. Maybe a 9.75 day here and there is understandable, but a 10+ day every week is bull.

 

[100%ORIONComplianceGuy]

Because there’s a chance you and I don’t get to decide that. we can argue it. We can file a grievance. We disagree with it, but at the end of the day language interpretation is done throughout life of the contract through local hearings, panels, JACs and nationals and even sometimes arbitration.

Don’t misunderstand me I agree with your opinion that it should be upheld, but I have to live in the real world where I have to abide by agreements that are above your and my head.

Those local hearings and what not are exactly what I’m talking about. It starts there. These issues need to be fought all the way through if necessary. Giving up is not the answer. If the company kicks it up to the next level, they need to fight just as hard. It’s sad that it’s the higher levels that are screwing us over.

You may have read it, doubtful you did in full, but you're arguing a point that does not exist, it's very straight forward.

"The Company will not assign excessive over-
time on the two (2) remaining days within the workweek in order to
retaliate against a driver for opting onto the 9.5 List. If the employer
is found to have assigned excessive overtime for the remaining two
days in violation of this provision"

The penalty is not over 9.5 hours, it's over retaliation. I don't disagree with you about what's excessive or that there's a provision in there, it's the language and context if the provision.

I don't think you should he over 9.5 once if you're on the list. Maybe a 9.75 day here and there is understandable, but a 10+ day every week is bull.

Now try reading the entirety of the 9.5 language. Context is everything. You are looking at it exactly like a UPS labor manager, or center manager. If you only think that way then you are lost. We are lost.

 

[Thebrownblob]

Those local hearings and what not are exactly what I’m talking about. It starts there. These issues need to be fought all the way through if necessary. Giving up is not the answer.

Now try reading the entirety of the 9.5 language. Context is everything. You are looking at it exactly like a UPS labor manager, or center manager. If you only think that way then you are lost. We are lost.

Where did you get the idea They were not being fought? And you say giving up is not the answer, but who’s giving up? Sometimes a decision is above your head. As of yet, no decision on this language that I know of is set in stone so the fight goes on.

 

[Just A UPS Guy]

There was local hearings and what not or exactly what I’m talking about. It starts there. These issues need to be fought all the way through if necessary. Getting up is not the answer.

Now try reading the entirety of the 9.5 language. Context is everything. You are looking at it exactly like a UPS labor manager, or center manager. If you only think that way then you are lost. We are lost.

Yes, I've read the language extensively. I understand context, which is why I provided the language for you to understand that at no point does it read that you receive penalty pay for any two days over 9.5, as you've stated. I provided context for which those two days you refer to must be interpreted. And yes, I take the time to interpret things as the opposition will, that is what separates a good argument from a temper tantrum. Understanding the opposition is a key strategy in any situation, going in blind and not preparing for counterpoints is just dumb.

It's not that I don't want it to be how you've stated it is or that you shouldnt file, and I hope you get paid and set a precedent. I'm just pointing out the standard you'll most likely have to meet.

Again, good luck.

 

[Thebrownblob]

Yes, I've read the language extensively. I understand context, which is why I provided the language for you to understand that at no point does it read that you receive penalty pay for any two days over 9.5, as you've stated. I provided context for which those two days you refer to must be interpreted. And yes, I take the time to interpret things as the opposition will, that is what separates a good argument from a temper tantrum. Understanding the opposition is a key strategy in any situation, going in blind and not preparing for counterpoints is just dumb.

It's not that I don't want it to be how you've stated it is or that you shouldnt file, and I hope you get paid and set a precedent. I'm just pointing out the standard you'll most likely have to meet.

Again, good luck.

Yep, if you cannot understand the argument that’s going to come from the other side and have a valid counterpoint you’re never going to win anything.

 

[100%ORIONComplianceGuy]

Where did you get the idea They were not being fought? And you say giving up is not the answer, but who’s giving up? Sometimes a decision is above your head. As of yet, no decision on this language that I know of is set in stone so the fight goes on.

Because it sounds like you’ve already sided with the company and that you expect that to be the status quo all the way up.

 

[100%ORIONComplianceGuy]

Yes, I've read the language extensively. I understand context, which is why I provided the language for you to understand that at no point does it read that you receive penalty pay for any two days over 9.5, as you've stated. I provided context for which those two days you refer to must be interpreted. And yes, I take the time to interpret things as the opposition will, that is what separates a good argument from a temper tantrum. Understanding the opposition is a key strategy in any situation, going in blind and not preparing for counterpoints is just dumb.

It's not that I don't want it to be how you've stated it is or that you shouldnt file, and I hope you get paid and set a precedent. I'm just pointing out the standard you'll most likely have to meet.

Again, good luck.

Pointing out the standard of the company and reading language in plain crystal clear English is two different things. So far you have made it sound as if you agree with UPS. But anyone that reads the entirety of the language with likely say that penalty pay for those two days is due.