APWA ???

[roadking]

The question, who's perfect? no one. Yet how far from perfect are you willing to accept. The machinist union that represents UPS maint. and automotive people in southwest Ohio is 124% yes 124% funded compare that with Central States 60 something percent. Completely unacceptable and if are willing to sit by and wait on things to get better without making an effort to change things ( I believe for the better) then we deserve what we get, and for that kind of attitude I feel sorry for us and our families who deserve better after living with the hours and frustration that come with the UPS territory!! God Bless

 

[ups79]

30 and outid I ever say that I posted on that website? Besides if someone is going to accuse something as being dumbest, perhaps that person should know how to spell dumbest, dummy.

 

[Fredless]

To the comment about me moving out the neighborhood if I was getting robbed - I'm sorry, I'm not going to turn tail and run because of that. A lot of the neighborhoods in Tampa and the St.Pete area are sick of things like that and what are they doing? Holding meetings and COLLECTIVELY making a stand against it. I'm a gun owner, and if anyone wants to rob my apartment and manages to get in past all the locks, my browning 12 guage will be staring them in the face when they get inside.

So just because the central states are going to hell...the whole NATION should risk everything for you? You guys act like the so sad people and blame the pro-teamsters that have good pensions in other areas of the country that we're being selfish. Well it seems to me the CENTRAL STATES are being selfish.

About the IAM, thats the union my dad is in. He frequently reminds me of how their pension plan does well and that their strike fund is also very well managed. If a union like the IAM was trying to kick the IBT out, I could MAYBE see the validity (sp) to take the risk of a change. Rogue union? Hell no.

 

[Uncle BS]

Fredless, what the APWA is saying, is WE ALL deserve to have better pensions. None of US draw what we should. Granted, people like you and I and probably the biggest majority that post here, won't draw the $7,000.00 a month pension, unless the APWA gets the funds from CS and other pension handlers, but we would draw two checks. One from CS, for me, and one from the APWA. We would all have better insurance plan and the people just starting at UPS would draw that $7,000.00 and/or have a 20, 25, 30, etc. and out. I am not trying to be selfish. Yes, I am in CS, but to me, it is all about what WE should be drawing and how well OUR families are going to be protected and taken care of after We are gone.

 

[30andout]

30 and outid I ever say that I posted on that website? Besides if someone is going to accuse something as being dumbest, perhaps that person should know how to spell dumbest, dummy.

Golly ge 79 I guess thats why I'm just a dumb truck driver, but you DID say people could post at parcel workers.com.

 

[pasfailure]

So we pull out of the Teamsters Union for the APWA but we still collect the vested amount from the Teamsters Pensions. How is that any different then someone still collecting a pension after his company folded? Now you're just hurting people working for companies like Roadway who are still paying into those funds. What happened to brotherhood?

 

[laborer]

So we pull out of the Teamsters Union for the APWA but we still collect the vested amount from the Teamsters Pensions. How is that any different then someone still collecting a pension after his company folded? Now you're just hurting people working for companies like Roadway who are still paying into those funds. What happened to brotherhood?

What happened to our pension?

 

[wkmac]

wkmac:do you think "SAWman", who onces posted here could be "SKILLman" as in Van?

No, Skillman and Saw are not the same person IMO and here's my reason why. When Sawman first appeared and started talking about taking the raises for the next 2 years and buying out our credit from CS, etc. so that we all could get the $7000 per month at 30 years, OK2BC and I talked privately email(I think My2Cents was also in some of that) about this and the whole APWA idea. After looking at their website, I decided one day to email APWA on this issue to see what would happen, because to me the numbers just didn't add up. It was Skillman himself who responded back and he told me there was no such plan nor in his mind would such a plan even work. He and I exchanged a number of lengthy emails on APWA, the IBT and a number of issues we face. Skillman was very honest to me IMO as what of any benefit I would get from the APWA retirement plan unless I was willing to work the few extra years I was going to have to work away as a result of the CS changes. Under the proposed APWA plan for example had it been in place at the time we talked, I could earn enough credit to get nearly $3k per month from APWA. Basically, those 7 extra years would get me what I would have gotten from CS before the 03' changes. Far cry from the $7k per month and Skillman himself is also in the same boat. His belief is he sees no changes to CS in the future and in fact they would likely get worse so if he has to work the years anyway, why not take a chance and make it as worth you while as you can and I don't disagree with that thinking at all. If like myself, you already believe at some point in your future that CS will go bellyup anyway, you got very little if anything to loose and this is at the heart of it all. Even OK and I basically agreed on that point.

Take all things into consideration, the demographics of a shrinking IBT/CS membership, etc. and barring say for example a huge membership increase say from a complete IBT unionizing of Fedex (don't hold you breath) I just don't see the needed influx of monies to get us back to where we once were. With add pressures of rising healthcare costs added to the beginning of the babyboomer explosion into the CS pension plans and you've got the makings of a looming disaster. The IBT has no cloat or power to get the employers, especially UPS to pony up at the contract to pay for all of this so forget that idea.

Skillman believes, and I can very much agree with this that since so many factors point to a CS trainwreck at some point in the future but with UPS only and it's strenght and global growth of it's employee base that the demographics suggest many of the factors threatening the survival of CS work just the opposite with UPS and a UPS only plan. Using that model and with the current amounts paid in weekly, they came up with the current plan that a employee working under their plan for 30 years could draw $7k per month. Also this retirement bonus being bounced around of several/ several $k lumpsum payout at retirement? I never once heard Skillman raise this or discuss this at all. He told me of his concerns that people are taking liberties and throwing out ideas that are not a part of the APWA mix.

The bottomline is I don't believe Skillman and Sawman are the same because in our emails he never showed the same style as saw nor did he defend or discuss the issues in the same manner. Both OK2BC and M2C is my memory is correct have some (OK2BC) has all the emails that went between myself and Skillman. Like myself, M2C was receptive to the APWA idea whereas OK liked the UPS only union thinking but had his doubts about APWA being the answer and he had some good points on that too and I respected that.

I don't think APWA will ever replace the IBT completely but in time and especially depending on how this next contract goes, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see somewhere in the South (probably North Carolina) one or even some UPS sites de-certify the IBT and certify APWA. APWA may get the chance to prove itself so they better be ready.

c ya!

 

[nospinzone]

MAC is 98% correct in his above posting. Regarding decertifying, the IBT contract is on a national level. They can only be decertified on a national level. So North Carolina may, as a state, be in favor of APWA, but unless 51% of the national vote is for APWA, the vote will fail. The 51% is of the voters showing up to vote, not 51% of all elligible UPS voters. To initiate the NLRB vote, APWA must demonstrate that at least 30% of all voting ellible workers are requesting a vote.

Skillman is a very blunt, upfront fellow, isnt he Mac?

 

[wkmac]

MAC is 98% correct in his above posting. Regarding decertifying, the IBT contract is on a national level. They can only be decertified on a national level. So North Carolina may, as a state, be in favor of APWA, but unless 51% of the national vote is for APWA, the vote will fail. The 51% is of the voters showing up to vote, not 51% of all elligible UPS voters. To initiate the NLRB vote, APWA must demonstrate that at least 30% of all voting ellible workers are requesting a vote.

Skillman is a very blunt, upfront fellow, isnt he Mac?

Sorry nospin but have to disagree on the decert part. Under the NLRA which covers the NLRB, you can go site to site. In other words just using North Carolina as an example since APWA gave birth out of there, you could have Greensboro with APWA and Charlotte with IBT under the NLRB. How would you also explain that in some areas of the country, the Automotive and PE mechanics are represented by the Machinist Union and the other UPSers in the same area are under IBT jurisdiction! OOOOPPPPPPPPPSSSSSSSS! You didn't sleep through that part of the movie did ya?

Under the Railway Act that covers FedEx you have to go Nationwide or rather company wide. For proof other than the law itself, go back and look at the Teamster/Overnight situation a couple of years ago. Several Overnight barns on their own decertified the IBT and went non-union. Also one of the chief arguments that UPS has used about FedEx being under the Railway Act while UPS is under the NLRB is that FedEx has the advantage of any union effort having to be companywide in one single swoop. UPS under the NLRB and other companies as such gives the union a somewhat advantage in that that they can focus organizing on single locations and once getting a toehold, then leepfrog across the company.

You are correct that in a decert vote, all UPSers covered by the NLRB under any union effort would vote and not just Teamster members at the time only. Somebody must have woke you up for that scene or the call of popcorn got ya.

Yeah, Skillman is blunt and I respect that. I also believe as hard as it is for some to understand that he is a good union UPSer. You might disagree with the method he chooses to express that, that's cool and I understand the arguement, but I've no doubt he's thinking of UPSers first and foremost and giving pause to what we have to maybe what we could have under differnent circumstances. Any effort to make people think and re-examine the IBT is a good effort. Right now especially as we enter the contract cycle and in the near future of deciding who will lead our union. I think APWA has a very long way to go and still many questions to be considered and answered but the greatest thing APWA does right now is force us to ask the hard questions we neglected too and force the union rah-rahers to answer them. I think watching the actions of the IBT rah-rahers in this is the most important part of this whole effort.

JMHO.

 

[brett636]

To the comment about me moving out the neighborhood if I was getting robbed - I'm sorry, I'm not going to turn tail and run because of that. A lot of the neighborhoods in Tampa and the St.Pete area are sick of things like that and what are they doing? Holding meetings and COLLECTIVELY making a stand against it. I'm a gun owner, and if anyone wants to rob my apartment and manages to get in past all the locks, my browning 12 guage will be staring them in the face when they get inside.

So just because the central states are going to hell...the whole NATION should risk everything for you? You guys act like the so sad people and blame the pro-teamsters that have good pensions in other areas of the country that we're being selfish. Well it seems to me the CENTRAL STATES are being selfish.

About the IAM, thats the union my dad is in. He frequently reminds me of how their pension plan does well and that their strike fund is also very well managed. If a union like the IAM was trying to kick the IBT out, I could MAYBE see the validity (sp) to take the risk of a change. Rogue union? Hell no.

AMEN!

 

[nospinzone]

Sorry nospin but have to disagree on the decert part. Under the NLRA which covers the NLRB, you can go site to site. In other words just using North Carolina as an example since APWA gave birth out of there, you could have Greensboro with APWA and Charlotte with IBT under the NLRB.

Mac, This excerpt from the '02 National Master Freight Agreement and discussions with Eason are what I'm basing my statement on.

ARTICLE 2. SCOPE OF AGREEMENT
Section 1. Single Bargaining Unit
All employees, covered by this Master Agreement and the various Supplements, Riders and Addenda there to, shall constitute one (1) bargaining unit. The printing of this Master Agreement and the aforesaid Supplements, Riders and/or Addenda in separate agreements is for convenience only and is not intended to create separate bargaining units
Source: www.tdu.org

In discussions with Eason, he agreed that it would be easier to go region by region, but IBT in their foresight, placed this clause in the contract to make it as difficult as possible for anyone to decertify them. And since we agreed to it and ratified the contract, we in essence surrendured the right you described in the NLRA to decertify by regions. Just to be sure, I emailed a copy of your statement to the officers. I'll forward you the email or post it here if it says otherwise. I'm not trying to get into a pissing match with you, Mac, but any opportunity I can find to dispell misconceptions and make this as crystal clear as possible not only clarifies the subject for you but more importantly for the other 5,400 members and guests of browncafe that might stumble in here.

So just because the central states are going to hell...the whole NATION should risk everything for you? You guys act like the so sad people and blame the pro-teamsters that have good pensions in other areas of the country that we're being selfish. Well it seems to me the CENTRAL STATES are being selfish.

I haven't accused anyone of being selfish, but have only asked people to look realistically at the situation and offer their opinions (post 120). And I think this quote speaks volumes about your opinion on the substantial loss of retirement funds that thousands of UPS employees are facing, Fredless. I dont really have anything else to add. I'll be happy to let you have the last word.

 

[wkmac]

I think Danny is misunderstanding that language in that it is saying to UPS that they, the IBT, are the sole agent for those under this contract jurisdiction. Again, if this single clause was meant to totally lock out all other union or attempts to unionize UPSers via another union as the NLRB does allow for using the correct procedures, then this language would bar the machinists union from their position as fudciary agent for many UPS mechanics. I'm not convinced that contract language can be included that would circumvent labor law. I just don't think this language is saying what Danny thinks so he may have a much wider door open for APWA than he thinks.

If I were him I'd look very closely at this with a new set of eyes.

Maybe ole' Tom's giving him the run around!

LOL!

 

[JWDWings Local 340 Maine]

I'm sold on the whole idea of kicking the Teamsters to the curb. It seems there are two groups of people who are against it. You've got your skeptics (understandibly). And you've got your scum of the workforce that relys on Teamster protection so they can half-ass it at work every day. That of course is WHEN they actually do come to work. The bulk of the UPS workforce is probably ready for a change. The whole process just seems to be moving a bit slow and I think that is turning people away. I've never been a fan of the Teamsters or a multi-employer pension plan but was content. I've recently changed my mind. Probably like many others. I don't like watching other companys retire off our money after 20-25 years while we can't retire until after 40! I know there is more to it than that and that it is not completely the union's fault but most of the blame falls on them and the rest on UPS itself. We cant kick management to the curb but the IBT should be concerned.

I too am ready for a change! I'm tired of the miss management of the monies in the Pension Fund. I'm Tired of the 100's of Millions of Dollars BEing donated to Political Parties and Special Interest. Instead of making any cuts to the FAt Cat Union Higher ups and the Trips to Vegas for the Business Agents. And I'm tired of seeing my money go to A so called Politcal Coordinator being paid Full Wages and Benefits! I'm Fed up with a Union that Votes them selfs Full Benefits for Life of from our Backs. I'm fed up with a union that before making any cuts to save money on their behave they come to us and tell us we now have to work until we're 57 and soon to be 60. It seems the Ibt has Forgotten who they work for.

 

[teamsterdan]

so....w/ so much support why doesn't the APWA, run a candidate and become the "APWA wing" of the teamsters, hell it's only an freaking name right, put up a viable candidate, or........... @ least a few well thought out excuses.....

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

If leaving IBT and leaving Roadway and whoever else out in the cold is what it takes to get a decent retirement than so be it. They are retiring off our money anyway. Have any of you ever had someone from Yellow Freight come up to you and thank you for their retirement? Several of our drivers have had that happen to them. I've been a member of 3 different unions (two were before I worked at UPS) and IBT definately the most corrupt of the three. Maybe they've have gottent to big for their pants. Or maybe they have just gotten out of control. I've watched them fight for the jobs of the biggest scum at UPS then not lift a finger for the ones that they should have and now on top of all of that there is the pension mess. Yes, many pensions are going to the crapper but UPS does not, and should not, have to be that way. People don't believe me when I tell them about the pension situation at UPS. They always say "NO...Not UPS??? How could that be?". It is unreal.

 

[wildgoose]

If leaving IBT and leaving Roadway and whoever else out in the cold is what it takes to get a decent retirement than so be it. They are retiring off our money anyway. Have any of you ever had someone from Yellow Freight come up to you and thank you for their retirement? Several of our drivers have had that happen to them. I've been a member of 3 different unions (two were before I worked at UPS) and IBT definately the most corrupt of the three. Maybe they've have gottent to big for their pants. Or maybe they have just gotten out of control. I've watched them fight for the jobs of the biggest scum at UPS then not lift a finger for the ones that they should have and now on top of all of that there is the pension mess. Yes, many pensions are going to the crapper but UPS does not, and should not, have to be that way. People don't believe me when I tell them about the pension situation at UPS. They always say "NO...Not UPS??? How could that be?". It is unreal.

Hey teamster Dan what your saying is we should suck it up on your behalf ? The teamsters set it up to be all or nothing when it comes to there way. So how do you think we should go about correcting our issue with out changing the whole process ? Wait for reform - heh right ! See the old teamsters would not settle for part of the group getting screwed but now it sure looks that way !!!!!!!! Tough problems need tough resolutions. I am sorry your loyalty to the teamsters blinds the big picture !!!!!

 

[wildgoose]

Ron Carey interview !
Labor Notes - Interview with Ron Carey

 

[wildgoose]

Ron Carey interview !
Labor Notes - Interview with Ron Carey

Joe Allen: Teamsters: Disarray on the eve of the election - ISR

 

[wildgoose]

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