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[dannyboy]

Crip

Bottom line is that UPS has attorney, Liberty does to. IF and only if you are smarter than these lawyers do you handle it yourself. But if not, get the advice of a lawyer. Not all are out to sue everybody. Some are actually interested in seeing the right thing done.

Oh, Yes you can be injured even when following methods. They are designed to prevent injuries, but the can and do happen.

d

 

[capnroxxor]

Daytona, all of them are going to say great. With the exception of Dannyboy, who can probably tell you a lot about the financials of a given store when he reads all the paperwork left out at a mail store, the other drivers are going to judge success on the number of packages they pick up. Number of packages do not mean the store is doing well. Many UPS Stores have reported that they have either had minimal increases in net profit or a decrease despite doubling their prior year's packages. Twice the work for the same money. If you have read the other boards postings (I hope you have read the MBE and the GS boards as well, which have more information than the sparring sessions out here in UPS land) then you have some concrete facts that show the problems with the system. Maybe you should ask if you can attend the Dallas meeting of UPS Store owners on Jan 29 and meet REAL UPS store owners and find out the truth if you dont believe the "disloyal" I hope you read the post that showed that a UPS Store could take a package to Kinko's and pay the FedEx price for a ground shipment for less than their wholesale UPS cost. A real eye opener. The royalties at the UPS Store are the highest in the industry and can be even higher than 8.5% if co-op dues are added in. Factor in Credit card fees and you will be better off running down to the post office for your shipping needs. The numbers do not lie.

It sounds to me like you like UPS and want to be part of their team. My advice is that if you want to be part of UPS, apply to become a UPS employee. UPS has always considered the entire MPC industry to be "leeches" and "gougers" and that attitude has not changed with the purchase of MBE. UPS is profiting off these stores and leaving the stores with less than they had before. The contract is pretty one-sided, I would suggest getting a franchise attourney to review the agreement before you sign. Emotions run high on this topic, but this is your money and your livelyhood you are putting up. Be careful.

 

[upsdude]

wily old vet..........

You didn't bug me at all. I learned a long time ago to listen with ears wide open.

 

[aupss]

Daytona let me save you a lot of time and money. If the best you can do is come to what is basically a drivers and retired UPS site to ask questions about a UPSS. You need to lock your money up in the bank and leave it there.

The people on this site have no clue about the costs, and ongoing operating expenses of owning a UPSS.

Can they tell you if the number of packages are up, sure, I can tell you that.

Can they tell you if the profits are up or down, have expenses increased no.

What it takes to operate a UPSS no.

So do yourself a favor and put your money away.

 

[dannyboy]

Daytona

Let me share some thoughts with you on the matter.

There are many people that think UPS is a gold mine. Many people bought UPS stock when it hit 70 years ago thinking it would hit 100 within a few months. UPS is not and has never been a place for people to become rich overnight. And the UPS stores are no exception.

IF you are looking for a way to get wealthy quick without much work on your part, forget the UPS store. THat would not be for you.

Now if you are willing to commit much time, effort, and financial investment, the rewards will be there. Its just like any other business, you have to grow it.

Think of it as a baby. You realisticly do not expect it to be able to drive itself to the doctor for its first checkup, pay its own bills, fix its own food etc for quite a while. Same thing with a business. Many take 2,4,10 years to break even. Until then you have to put in time, money and a lot of hard work to make it. You take your profits and roll them over into the business for years before you take money out to pay yourself. Its called sweat-equity. It is that sweat-equity that you get back when you sell the business.

So there are several suggestions I would make.

First off, I have 4 customer counter stores within a two block stretch on my route, and I picked up a 5th during Christmas. I know much information, and they share much information with me. I NEVER share ANY info with any of the other stores, ever. And I will not post any specifics here. It would be immoral for me to do so.

Secondly a UPS store is a long term investment, not short term. In todays society it seems that everything is short term, marrages, jobs, relationships. Even children for some people is a short term relationship( I know since I have been a foster parent for over 20 years). This will not be a short term relationship.

Each persons life is totally different from some else. WHat works for one might not/will not work for someone else.

Look at what you are doing in your life, what are your goals, your dreams. How does this fit into those? Do you like this type of business or would it just be a job. There are a lot of things that I would have to know before I would ever consider myself properly equiped to give you advise on this matter. Much more than you could/would ever want to post on a chat site.

Maybe this might help.

PAl Barger started a hamberger joint in 1956. It was a walk in walk out operation, no inside dining. Served hamburgers, hotdogs fries and soft drinks. He has grown it into close to two dozen stores and a multi million dollar enterprise. THe store managers over those drivethroughs average well into 6 figures a year. And last year he got to visit the White house to receive the Malcolm Baldridge National Quality Award, the only fast food joint to ever reach that goal. He gave me permission to list these what he calls

"Simple rules of success"

Create a product or service that consumers cant or dont want to do for themselves

Design quality into the products and services on the front end instead of trying to inspect them in later

Always deliver more than you promise

Have a tremendous enthusiasm for your business and the products and services

Keep it simple, keep it easy to manage, keep the processes easy to teach to the employees

Engage your employees to the point that they will think and act like an owner of the business

Create unique brand names and images for your products and services

Market your business products services and yourself aggressively

Always be morally ethically and legally correct in all actions.

End of quote

Follow this advice. It will take you far. Notice one thing though. It never says sit back and take it easy. He never has and has a net worth well into the nine figures. Really neat guy!

Sorry for rambling

d

 

[capnroxxor]

Read this article about the UPS Store, trouble is a brewing:

https://web.archive.org/web/2004031...com/business/content/business/0104/16ups.html

 

[dannyboy]

And the sky is falling. Gloom dispair and agony on me..........

You can find articles to support just about any side you take on an argument. You can find people that will lose the UPS store this year, and next. Hell, you can find people that are losing thier homes, but is that a good reason not to buy them? I dont think so. Cars are at an all time high for repo, but should that keep you from buying?

ITs no wonder that people fail. If you think you will, you will. And then find someone to blame.

If you can make it as an independent, go for it. The rewards are there.

Just one more parting thought, why would UPS drive UPS stores out of business? It just doesnt make sense.

You know, I personally know the owners of McDonalds, Burger King, Subway, and several other chains. Thier profit margins are less than ever due to costs rising and and eroding customer base with more competition. But they are making it. and some are cleaning house. And within a block or two there is that PAls, doing their cha ching cha ching. PAl stayed the course, stayed with the sound business plan and made his mark and his millions.

Next batter................

d

(Message edited by dannyboy on January 16, 2004)

 

[wily_old_vet]

capn--don't see any new info here. Sounds like some owners think UPS should allow them to charge higher rates because they are in Manhattan rather than Iowa. I hate to break it to you but UPS charges regular shippers the same rates in Manhattan and Iowa. Why should the UPSS be different? As for not allowing Fedx to be shipped from a UPSS well duh. Do you think Kinkos is going to ship UPS pkgs? When Fdx first started they used UPS to deliver their shipping supplies to their customers. When UPS went into the overnight business they stopped using us because we were now in competition with them. We are in competition with Fdx and to ship their packages from a UPSS would be like shipping their pkgs from a UPS counter. Try some common sense.

 

[ups]

What cracks me up is UPS paid 191 million for 3500 MBE stores and FEDEX paid 2.4 billion for 1500 kinko stores. If fedex would go union they would probably go bust. I don't see how they do it making deals like that. Maybe Kinkos is more profitable than MBE's and maybe they do more stuff but what a difference in prices paid for stores received

 

[capnroxxor]

Quite simple. UPS is a global company that can spread its expenses out and charge a uniform rate. The UPS Store is a bricks and mortar establishment reselling UPS services that start out at a price higher than UPS's true transportation costs. The store has numerous overhead expenses that vary in different parts of the country, like rent. Manhattan rent is higher than the rent in my area for the same ammount of space. Maybe there should not be any UPS Stores in Manhattan if the expenses are too high, right? Tell that to the MBE store that willingly converted to the UPS Store and gave it a go but the system is killing them. Oh thats right. No one cares about the storeowners. Then why did UPS buy them? For their own gain. Common sense tells me that not charging what you need to charge for your services to pay your bills is suicide. Common sense also tells me UPS does not know how to be a franchisor to these stores. I doubt any of you have any understanding of how a UPS Store or any other MPC runs, but all you do is see an attack on UPS so automatically we are wrong and whining. Ever think it was possible that UPS's strategy could be wrong? Are they so infalable as to be unable to make a bad business plan for the small businesses? When was the last time UPS had to run like a small business? How many years experience does UPS have in franchising? How many livelyhoods have to be ruined in the learning process? Try to think about people for once instead of an Ivory tower out there that doesnt give a damn about anything except money. I dont know what to think about people who can justify everything a company does as long as they make money. Heres an idea. The storeowner in the article has his store's location and his name in the article. Go visit him and tell him to his face that he is a loser and a whiner, but ask to look at his books before you do. Then tell him it is all his fault and not UPS's. He was brave enough to put that out there publicly, so go see what's up. Personally I may give him a call and thank him for making this more public and putting some truth out there, or are you calling him a liar?

 

[traveler]

capn,
There is one thing in the article that you referenced that does (IMHO) hold some water. That is the difference in the cost to run the UPSS in a metropolitan location versus a less populated area. In the "old days" at UPS, if you were transfered, no account was taken as to the area cost of living that you came from or went to. I was the subject of both directions, moving from a high cost of living area to one of the lowest in the nation at that time. I was also transfered in the opposite direction. Some years back the company realized that difference and now makes an allowance (for the cost of a home) for managers who are transfered. Perhaps they SHOULD look at the different cost to run a store in more expensive places!

All is not black and white in this discussion.

 

[dannyboy]

Ive got a really good idea. Why dont you and MBE both go and visit the guy and you can all three cry about how miserable you al are and how life sucks and how evil UPS is. Im sure it will be a real eye opener for you.

Best wishes in your search for the truth. As for me, Ive wasted too much of my time on you and this subject.

d

 

[tieguy]

Actually there is quite a diverse group of UPSers active and retired , drivers and management and pt and ft. A few mbe owners that are disgruntled because they made a bad decision when offered a chance to convert to UPSS. We can tell you from our perspective in dealing with the businesses that they appear to have generated a tremendous amount of growth since converting. The earnings info coming out jan 29the will tell you if we are right. In the meantime be carefull because there are two mbeowners posting here and on yahoo under at least 4 or 5 ID's who will lie at will to steer you away from making an informed decision.

 

[capnroxxor]

And what does UPS's earnings announcement have to do with how much money one can make as a UPS Store? Absolutely nothing. There is no need to be disgruntled about not re-branding, they can still do so if they wish. They are still part of MBE Corp, and under the wing of UPS. Will the financials of each and every UPS Store be announced that day as well? UPS the company is not The UPS Store. UPS Stores are individually owned and operated stores that are not as directly affected by UPS's business successes. They can buy stock, I suppose, but so can anyone else. The burden of the expenses are solely on the storeowner, and UPS sets the prices. They control your vendors, appearence, and margins on your primary service. The lowest man on the totem pole at a UPS hub sweeping the floors has a better deal with UPS than any UPS Store owner.

 

[afups]

Daytona......
If I were doing "due dilligence" and considering opening a UPSS, I would not be spending my time on this board. I would be looking for FACTS. I might check out the board but it would not consider anything on this board as facts. They are opinions, some well founded, and rants by people who do not have a clue or have an axe to grind. I would be looking at location, location, location, competition, expected volume, operation costs, payroll costs, etc, etc, etc, location, location, location.
Now, if you follow my advice, you will not consider anything I have posted as worthwhile.

 

[dannyboy]

Kinkos are viewed as an office solutions business, while MBE's are veiwed as a shipping location. While they both probably do much of the same things, the advertising of what they can do is different. Also from what I have read MBE was in finacial trouble while Kinkos are not. THat might be why the difference in price.

Also as Tie has stated, anybody can post on this site calling themselves God, Micheal Jackson, or a UPS or MBE store owner. I would never trust anything said by an unregestered poster, and not much more from a regestered one. To make a really good informed decision you must to a lot of leg work and find several reliable sources for your information. And web boards are not that source.

d

 

[tieguy]

Yes capnroxxor is one of those I warned you about that will go out of his way to malicously distort your view of owning a UPS store.

 

[gman]

The Roadway stock site on the Yahoo board suggest a possible UPS buy out. I read a couple months ago that their total value together was about 20 billion and a few days later read about a UPS cash move starting that was just over 20 billion. Hmmmm...

Also had some Roadway drivers ask me about it. Where there is smoke....

 

[daytona]

Thanks for your responses - But not one answered the question I posed. It's really quite a simple question. I didnt think you could extract so much impressions, perceptions, and assumptions from it?

Some of you APPEAR to know what needs to be done. All I'll say is; I'll just keep doing what IM doing.

IM not one to sit here and type a 5000 word explanation to cover and justify every comment, opinion or question I ask (now that is a waste of time).

BUT, I will make an exception this time:

A few comments on your responses:

AFUPS WRITES
Daytona......
If I were doing "due dilligence" and considering opening a UPSS, I would not be spending my time on this board. I would be looking for FACTS. I might check out the board but it would not consider anything on this board as facts. They are opinions, some well founded, and rants by people who do not have a clue or have an axe to grind.

Comment: What makes you think I spend ALOT of time on these boards and why would you care, just answering my question honestly would be helpful? Maybe I just forgot to explain how I spend my days to justify my statement.

I would be looking at location, location, location, competition, expected volume, operation costs, payroll costs, etc, etc, etc, location, location, location.
Now, if you follow my advice, you will not consider anything I have posted as worthwhile.

Comment: DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


From TieGuy

We can tell you from our perspective in dealing with the businesses that they appear to have generated a tremendous amount of growth since converting. The earnings info coming out jan 29the will tell you if we are right

Comment: Thanks for the opinion: You used the word "WE" who is we? I was trying to get responses from DRIVERS, it would be more believable if the word 'I' and 'on my route', and 'owners I have talked with'. So I conclude from your response you are not a Driver and a bias opinion.


From AUPSS
Daytona let me save you a lot of time and money. If the best you can do is come to what is basically a drivers and retired UPS site to ask questions about a UPSS. You need to lock your money up in the bank and leave it there.

Comments: How do you know what is the best I can do? I do agree with you 'there are drivers on this board'

The people on this site have no clue about the costs, and ongoing operating expenses of owning a UPSS.

COMMENT: I didnt ask for costs, ongoing or operating expenses. Its really a simple question.

Can they tell you if the number of packages are up, sure, I can tell you that.

Comment: Well IM waiting

Can they tell you if the profits are up or down, have expenses increased no.

COMMENT: Can You see it in their attitude, expressions, eyes, comments they make etc...

What it takes to operate a UPSS no.

Comment: If "operate" is related to Hours,mental,physical,rewarding,challenging sure they can tell you. If related to financials I agree with you.

So do yourself a favor and put your money away.

Comment: If youre a UPSS owner are you
JUST SURVIVING -
SURVIVING -
GROWING -
EXCEPTIONAL -

Be honest about it, its not a shameful
Question.


From CAPN

Too long to comment on
Thanks for your response.



FROM DANNYBOY

I know much information, and they share much information with me. I NEVER share ANY info with any of the other stores, ever. And I will not post any specifics here. It would be immoral for me to do so.

COMMENT: I agree with you not do divulge (figures). But opinions are ok.

There are a lot of things that I would have to know before I would ever consider myself properly equipped to give you advise on this matter. Much more than you could/would ever want to post on a chat site.

COMMENT: TRUE - and IM not here looking for guidance, I will determine where I go from here.

But I take you response to heart. THANK YOU

Please let me post it again but REVISED to try and make it clearer:


QUESTION:
As a DRIVER, From casual discussion and comments with UPSS owners or employees, what are your impressions and opinion of how the UPSS on your routes are performing? Are they:

JUST SURVIVING -
SURVIVING -
GROWING -
EXCEPTIONAL -

Disclaimer - these are only opinions.

 

[capnroxxor]

You balance out the equation by distorting the facts to the positive despite your complete lack of knowlege on how a mail store operates. Brown colored glasses dont make for good vision.