Assigned Work???

[Bubblehead]

I thought about this a little more Bubble. Do you honestly believe that UPS would agree to pay air driver rate to unload a plane?

I want some of what you're smoking. I am 99% sure that there is no local agreement for UPS to pay air driver rate to unload a plane. You may ask why I am not 100% sure?

We all know there is that one exception to the rule. So is this that exception? If it was, UPS would be violating their local agreement because the OP said they are sending out a preloader.

Does UPS violate agreements? Yes....but if they are violating this one, why not violate the other one?

Why are they sending a $36/hr package driver to shuttle the air? Why not violate the agreement and get it done at half price with an air driver?

Probably because the simplest answer is usually the correct one. There is no agreement to pay air driver rate to unload this plane.

Just like where Frigid was, UPS just realized that they did not have to pay air driver rate to unload a plane. They can send out a preloader.

And just in case I am wrong and this is still that one exception to the rule, do you remember what I told the OP? If not, I'll help you out.



Am I being aggressive now. Naaaa....but I am always up for a spirited debate. And this is what this is.

Your turn.....go

I never said anything of the sort.
I said he was a helper outside the seasonal period.
Therefore he should get helper pay if it was agreed to by the Local.
If not he can grieve, and so can I, because it's not his work.

But again, nobody knows what language applies, nor can they.

 

[Bubblehead]

Are we good or what. We are responding to each other at the same time.

It is not in the language that they cannot use a preloader.

You know the old saying....no contractual violation.

Your turn.......go

Let me ask you this, since we are operating on "what's not in the contract".

Where does this mindset end?
Can Twilight Sort employees also be assigned to go out with a driver to help him complete his pickup log?

 

[Mugarolla]

If not he can grieve, and so can I, because it's not his work.

So whose work is it?

Can Twilight Sort employees also be assigned to go out with a driver to help him complete his pickup log?

A little different scenario. This is covered under the supplement, helpers outside of November and December.

The original scenario is covered under the Master, Article 40.

And this preloaded is not a helper. The pilot used to help unload the plane.

For one reason or another, he stopped doing it. So UPS now needs someone to do the job the pilot was doing. I don't know that I would consider a preloaded to be a driver helper.

I, and like Frigid said, the union agreed that the preloaded is just a plane unloader, not a driver helper.

 

[Bubblehead]

So whose work is it?

It's the driver's work and the preloader's is riding along to "help" him, making him a..... helper.

The original scenario is covered under the Master, Article 40.

It is not in the language that they cannot use a preloader.

Again, where is it covered under Art 40?

I, and like Frigid said, the union agreed that the preloaded is just a plane unloader, not a driver helper.

I have never known supervisors to be a good source for contractual language issues?

 

[Mugarolla]

It's the driver's work and the preloader's is riding along to "help" him, making him a..... helper.

This driver is an air shuttle driver covered under Article 40 of the NMUPSA.

The Central Region Supplement, in your case, does not cover air drivers and does not apply.

Again, where is it covered under Art 40?

Why does everybody think that every working condition is, and must be, covered in the contract?

Article 40 does not state that a plane must be unloaded by a shuttle driver or air driver.

Article 40 does not state that UPS cannot use a preloaded to unload a plane at a remote airport.

So, UPS does something not specified in the contract. What is the procedure?

An employee can grieve it and a ruling will be made on the issue.

I'm surprised you do not know how this works.

The outcome of the grievance for UPS not paying air driver rate or helper rate...

No contractual violation.

I have never known supervisors to be a good source for contractual language issues?

You don't have resources to verify this?

 

[Bubblehead]

For the longest time they used to only send one full time driver to the airport in the morning (M-friend) to get the air packages and bring them back to the building. He is not an air driver.

This driver is an air shuttle driver covered under Article 40 of the NMUPSA.
The Central Region Supplement, in your case, does not cover air drivers and does not apply.

Nope, the OP states in the original post that it's a full time driver and that makes this "extra work".
This being the case, I doubt this local has a shuttle agreement.
How do you think he was paid, at the Art 40 air shuttle rate, or his driving rate?
I'm going with the latter.

For the longest time they used to only send one full time driver to the airport in the morning (M-friend) to get the air packages and bring them back to the building. He is not an air driver

Why does everybody think that every working condition is, and must be, covered in the contract?

I don't think that, but I do think that if it is covered elsewhere in the agreement, then the issue is not abstract and outside the written parameters.

I'm surprised you do not know how this works.

Now I know where I went wrong yesterday.
Instead of aggressive, I should have said condescending.

You don't have resources to verify this?

In this thread, you don't have the resources to verify anything, and neither do I, but it's been fun kicking it around?

 

[Mugarolla]

Nope, the OP states in the original post that it's a full time driver and that makes this "extra work".
This being the case, I doubt this local has a shuttle agreement.
How do you think he was paid, at the Art 40 air shuttle rate, or his driving rate?
I'm going with the latter.

He was paid at his package driver rate. But during this portion of his day, he was performing air shuttle work covered under Article 40 of the NMUPSA.

You seem to like me quoting the contract, so I will

Article 40
Section 1

9. Movement of air packages to airports and other locations such
as service centers, UPS buildings and driver meet points. Shuttle
work currently performed by regular full time drivers shall be
excluded. Should a regular full-time driver vacate a position which
includes air shuttle work, that job shall either be rebid as it previously
existed and continue to be paid at the regular driver rate or
the air shuttle work may be combined with other air work to create
one (1) or more full-time air or full-time combination job(s) paid in
accordance with Section 6 below. In no event shall such shuttle
work be assigned to a part time air driver.

I don't think that, but I do think that if it is covered elsewhere in the agreement, then the issue is not abstract and outside the written parameters.

Correct. But air shuttle work is not covered in the CRSA, so it does not apply.

If air shuttle work was covered in the CRSA, I would agree with you. But you cannot say that driver helpers are covered in the CRSA, so we are going to apply this language to shuttle drivers covered under Article 40 of the NMUPSA.

Now I know where I went wrong yesterday.
Instead of aggressive, I should have said condescending.

Condescending? well, maybe just a little. I'm sorry.......

In this thread, you don't have the resources to verify anything, and neither do I, but it's been fun kicking it around?

You could locate a Teamster decision regarding UPS not having to pay air driver rate, or helper rate, to an employee unloading a plane at a remote airport.

But it has been fun kicking it around.

I will never fault anyone for expressing an opinion, even if I don't agree with it. That is the purpose of a debate. Me trying to show you that I'm right, and you trying to show me that you are right.

In the end, our opinions don't matter. Sounds to me like the union already made a decision on this issue.

 

[PT Car Washer]

Went through a similar circumstance in my previous center.

Pilot wouldn't unload the plane anymore, we would send 3 air drivers out everyday to unload. One would run the handful of EAMs we would see, other would shuttle air back to the building, and 9 times out of 10 the other air driver would just come back to the building as well. Higher ups caught wind of it and demanded we send a preloader with the shuttle driver. Air driver 3 grieved it and lost. You're not driving, you don't get air rate for riding shotgun.

I wonder if the preloader was making top rate of $34.65/hr, if the outcome would be the same.

 

[jbg77]

@jbg77, Can you explain how my response was a derail?

I thought I specifically answered the OP's question.

Maybe I'm missing something. Hell, @Bubblehead thinks I'm aggressive.

Pretty sure I inadvertently hit that and didn't realize it. My apologies

Can't win 'em all, I guess.

 

[Mugarolla]

I wonder if the preloader was making top rate of $34.65/hr, if the outcome would be the same.

Good question.

 

[Mugarolla]

Pretty sure I inadvertently hit that and didn't realize it. My apologies

No problem.

I thought maybe I was missing something.

 

[bakagigee]

Wow, quite the exchange here.

First, Mugarolla... Thanks for the input, it is very helpful.
Second, I do know what a Steward is, but not all center Stewards are even remotely as informed or helpful as the people on this forum. I like to talk to my Steward first, and then go here to get any additional help I can.

The full-time driver who is going back and forth to the airport is being paid his driver wage. Interesting thing about this scenario is that at night a part-time air driver who works on the local sort takes the packages to the plane, not a full-time driver. It seems like the same job, but in the morning they have a FT driver do it, and at night they have an PT local sort/air driver do it and he gets paid air rate when he does it. So for part of the preload he gets paid his inside rate and then when he drives (and he does actually drive) he gets his air rate. I wonder why they are not both FT driver jobs, or both part-time air driver jobs. Seems inconsistent.

Just FYI, it only takes us about 45min to leave the building, drive to the airport, unload the plane, and come back.

Personally, I don't want to hear anything other than helpful information that will lead us to a correct and fair answer.

I wouldn't mind going if I got paid my air rate, but I do not think that they should be able to assign this job to anybody they want to on the preload (regardless of seniority), which is what they told me they can do. I feel that the person who rides in this vehicle, in bad weather, and assumes additional risks associated with working at the airport and around the plane should either be paid more for assuming that extra responsibility and training required (as we are told we have to be airport certified to go even though we don't drive), or the job should be given based on seniority... Meaning, they would offer it to highest seniority people first, and force people to take it from the bottom up.

Does that seem fair and in accordance with the contract to you folks?

Thanks again for the help.

 

[Mugarolla]

First, Mugarolla... Thanks for the input, it is very helpful.

You're welcome.

Second, I do know what a Steward is, but not all center Stewards are even remotely as informed or helpful as the people on this forum.

I hear ya.

The full-time driver who is going back and forth to the airport is being paid his driver wage.

Correct.

Interesting thing about this scenario is that at night a part-time air driver who works on the local sort takes the packages to the plane, not a full-time driver.

They can do this under Article 40 of the Master.

It seems like the same job, but in the morning they have a FT driver do it, and at night they have an PT local sort/air driver do it and he gets paid air rate when he does it

Seems fishy, doesn't it? But it is all covered under Article 40 of the Master as what they can and cannot do. And if the specific situation is not covered explicitly, like sending out a preloader to unload a plane, UPS can do it how they want up until a grievance is filed and it is either ruled no contractual violation or an agreement is reached between the union and UPS covering the situation.

So for part of the preload he gets paid his inside rate and then when he drives (and he does actually drive) he gets his air rate.

Correct.

I wonder why they are not both FT driver jobs, or both part-time air driver jobs. Seems inconsistent.

Depends on when the job started, who was doing it at the time the air language was changed, and whether or not there is enough work to make it a FT job.

All covered in Article 40.

I wouldn't mind going if I got paid my air rate

I don't blame you. But they do not have to, so they won't.

but I do not think that they should be able to assign this job to anybody they want to on the preload (regardless of seniority), which is what they told me they can do.

What we think they should do, or can do, and what they can contractually do, or not do, are two entirely different things.

Make your voice heard during contract negotiations.

I feel that the person who rides in this vehicle, in bad weather, and assumes additional risks associated with working at the airport and around the plane should either be paid more for assuming that extra responsibility and training required (as we are told we have to be airport certified to go even though we don't drive), or the job should be given based on seniority...

Again, what we think they should do and what the contract allows them to do is two different things.

Make your voice heard. Nobody says that it cannot be changed in the next contract.

Does that seem fair and in accordance with the contract to you folks?

Does not necessarily seem fair, but it is in accordance with the contract.

We have a lot of good things in the contract, but the Company also has a lot of what they wanted.

We have to take the good with the bad.

Lastly, it will not hurt to grieve it. You never know.....

 

[Bubblehead]

I thought maybe I was missing something.

Article 40
Section 1

9. Movement of air packages to airports and other locations such
as service centers, UPS buildings and driver meet points. Shuttle
work currently performed by regular full time drivers shall be
excluded. Should a regular full-time driver vacate a position which
includes air shuttle work, that job shall either be rebid as it previously
existed and continue to be paid at the regular driver rate or
the air shuttle work may be combined with other air work to create
one (1) or more full-time air or full-time combination job(s) paid in
accordance with Section 6 below. In no event shall such shuttle
work be assigned to a part time air driver.

I'm still not convinced that Art 40 provides for this full-time driver to be afforded a helper.

 

[Mugarolla]

I'm still not convinced that Art 40 provides for this full-time driver to be afforded a helper.

I'm still not convinced that Art 40 provides against this full-time driver to be afforded a helper.

I'm also not convinced that this preloader is a driver helper, as a driver helper is referred to in the contract.

What is a helper?
Where is a helper defined?
Is UPS and the Union definition of a helper the same?
Is your definition and mine the same?
Article 40 does not prohibit a preloader from unloading a plane.
Is this preloader helping the driver unload the plane or the other way around?


Nothing against it in Article 40, UPS used one, an employee grieved it, the Union ruled that the contract does not prohibit UPS from doing this, no contractual violation.

And yes, the outcome is still the same, but there is a difference between the contract allowing UPS to do something and the contract not prohibiting UPS from doing something.

I see your point, but when an issue is not specifically addressed, UPS and the Union work it out and come to an agreement.

 

[FrigidFTSup]

(as we are told we have to be airport certified to go even though we don't drive)

If you're helping unload the plane you do not need an AOA badge, just escorted. But if you already hold an airport badge you have to utilize it.

 

[bakagigee]

If you're helping unload the plane you do not need an AOA badge, just escorted. But if you already hold an airport badge you have to utilize it.

Our plane actually lands on a strip that is a part of an air force base, so I think in our situation every single person is require to have the badge. They kicked a guy out for not having it even though he was escorted by someone who did. He had to leave the installation and wait outside the gate! That was awkward!

 

[FrigidFTSup]

Our plane actually lands on a strip that is a part of an air force base, so I think in our situation every single person is require to have the badge. They kicked a guy out for not having it even though he was escorted by someone who did. He had to leave the installation and wait outside the gate! That was awkward!

Must be a SIDA area in that case. Most extended centers don't have that condition attached.

 

[bakagigee]

Must be a SIDA area in that case. Most extended centers don't have that condition attached.

Your signature line is so true.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Must be a SIDA area in that case. Most extended centers don't have that condition attached.

Our airport is on the former AFB----SIDA badges are required.