Atheists
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BrownArmy
Well-Known Member
wkmac
Well-Known Member
IMO laughable and a waste of time, effort and money. But if your point is face time, seems to have worked.
jmo
Resurrection: A History of Myths | LiveScience
Not the only empty tomb.
Not the only empty tomb.
I'm pretty ambivalent about this kind of stuff. I appreciate what they're doing as far as making a statement about separation of church and state but I don't see it as being representative of atheism per se. It's a bit like going to war in the name of pacifism.
BrownArmy
Well-Known Member
It's never bothered me to see the 10 Commandments posted in a public place, but for those who get in a huff about it, it's an interesting angle.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Many big things happened in that era. It was very dynamic, a culture was under the thumb of an oppressive empire in Rome. The years following what we are told is the death of Jesus in that Jewish revolt really started to spread.
A little factoid I learned that surprised me but also gave clarity was that across the Roman empire, around 10% of the population outside Judea was what we would call jewish. These jews were very hellenized and seeing where Paul's mission was and his message on the law, makes more sense as to who he was talking too. The Pauline version of christianity whose writings predate the earliest gospel in Mark by 2 to 3 decades was a more hellenistic tradition and thus Paul's epistles are addressed mostly to outside of Judea proper. But the fear from Rome was that the upheaval in Judea would spread throughout the empire and among this hellenistic population. Paul message in some sense seems to quell the fires of jewish revolt and not stir it.
The Flavians at the time were in what we call the British isles crushing the Druidic culture which they all but wiped out. Rome summoned the Flavians and the Roman legions back to be deployed in Judea to do literally the same thing. Thus we had the Jewish wars written of by the historian Josephus. Being a captive from said war, Josephus became favored by the Flavians because in his claims of the jewish messianic prophesies, Josephus claimed the prophesies foretold of Vespasian to the point of calling him messiah and as a captive of the Flavians, Josephus was brought into the house of Flavian and thus his name of Flavius Josephus as we know it.
Vespasian upon his death as a result of his son's arguments to the Roman Senate was declared god (deified) and as a result Titus would be a son of god. Hmmmmmm? And who would rip down the temple 40 years after it was foretold? Titus, son of god? Hmmmmmm? Surely there is not the first hint of evidence to support thinking such as a crazy idea? And who wrote the gospels anyway?
Historians see the Judean christianity mostly lead by James, the brother of Jesus (the Jesus family) and they maintain a more connected form to the rabbinic traditions and thus the ability to stay within the synagogue system was very easy. Here seems also the conflict between Paul and the James tradition as hellenized jews were more assimilated into a hybridized religious belief system that was diverse. Paul seemed to operate outside the synagogue system while the traditions through James were more comfortable there.
I am inclined to think that something was happening in Judea post 30 CE but there were so many claims of messiahship and so many factions springing up, the waters sadly are pretty muddy. Not heavenly but very earthly and not without some value for us even today. Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi library might offer some firsthand sources but IMO they leave one with more questions than answers.
I can also see where orthodox christianity would not be inclined to see the James traditions overpower (or even equal) the Pauline and may explain some of the anti-jewish thought Paul seems to express. A fair question would be if Paul even said those words in the first place. One should also question the "blamed the jews" ideal in the gospels as probable later additions to blur some historical truths regards christianity as another sect of judaism.
I've often been puzzled of the events that are claimed by Matthew to have happened in Jerusalem within moments and hours of Jesus death as mentioned in the bible. No other contemporary source reports of these events from a first hand perspective. Yet there is evidence of some Jesus narrative being taught in the local synagogues and yet it seems no jewish source of that time records these miraculous events. Such an event would have been huge and powerful evidence not only then but now and yet today it seems as problematic as it is profitable.
As to the jewish war and clashes over the many messiahs, one list I saw shows from 2nd century BCE to the end of the 1st century CE, there were something like 300 messiahs. And in rabbinic traditions there have continued to be messiahs even as recently as the 20th century. Most minor but some major, Jesus it would seem as a major if not just on impact alone. One I always thought interesting was the person in the Dead Sea Scrolls around 100 BCE known as the Teacher of Righteousness. I still think the Jesus figure we know may well be a combination of many rather than just a single alone. This may also explain the wide differences we see from many texts, canonical and none canonical about the person we know as Jesus. Even reading the gospels there are contrasts and differences and when one reads and does a side by side comparison, these differences begin to emerge.
But the greatest single point IMO that propelled christianity forward took place in the early 4th century in the person of Flavius Valerius Constantinus or commonly known as Constantine. At this point christianity was wedded to state power and by it's authority it was granted the privilege that made it into the dominate religion it became. My ancestors of the highlands of Scotland and Vikings became christian and thus my own family tradition in it mostly because of conquest and little else. My ancestors did not choose the godman christ because it was shown the best but shown at the point of a sword. Europe mostly became christian along this narrative. So what really propelled the faith forward was not so much the events of the 1st century CE but rather the events in the 4th century and later as a means of political power.
For the first couple of centuries, the faith was very scattered and fractured by huge doctrinal disagreements. Just consider how many various gospels, writings and texts were excluded from the final, official canon and the creeds like the Nicean created with the force of the state to unite the faith under one cause. Jesus didn't create and unite the faith so much as Constantine did if you want to get technical about it.
There is your single important event and as a christian you should be thankful for it!
From the female POV as well as the christian, god choose to reveal to the world the most important message of all though women, that is Jesus was risen and yet later doctrine made women 2nd class. Now follow that rabbit trail if you dare because women being 2nd rate was a political creation and nothing else.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
I feel the same way. Besides it's more fun to point out they have the wrong copy posted and then watch them twist to the cognitive dissonance when they see Version 2 in Exodus 34 as being the real current copy. There's a easy explanation but to the literalist, it forces open an even greater can of worms.
Upsmule
Well-Known Member
Paul nor Jesus made women second class citizens. Read your bible man 
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
I'm done here....have fun poking all the holes you like, I couldn't "save" anyone if I tried, that's His job not mine brother
Galatians 2:19-20 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. "
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
I'm done here....have fun poking all the holes you like, I couldn't "save" anyone if I tried, that's His job not mine brother
Galatians 2:19-20 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. "
Well, not trying to save anybody just some light reading. But consider this: The author is a progressive Christian. See how broad the appeal is for Christians throughout the spectrum? Conservative, liberal...it just doesn't matter. Whether it is a God, a Spirit of the Universe, or whatever you want to call it, religions that rely on the god/man have thrived.
The resurrection myths about Jesus: a progressive Christian interpretation
The resurrection myths about Jesus: a progressive Christian interpretation
I was willing to respect the story these people told up until they began their damnations of religion. To say if she could get rid of all religion she would? To say men of faith should be ashamed? These people aren't reformed. They hold their same dogmatic assurances from the other side of the spectrum. Their beliefs are replaced with disbelief and propelled by their own self satisfied end of the journey. Their minds have been anything but opens d.
upswife75
Well-Known Member
Agreed, I love Seth and make a point of watching all of his videos. I also LOVE Mr. Deity (Brian Keith Dalton).
upswife75
Well-Known Member
IMO, no you shouldn't be disciplined. As an atheist, I am not in any way offended by anyone saying Merry Christmas. At the same time, while working with the public, of which many people practice many different religions, I tend to say Happy Holidays unless I know what faith they follow. To me, it isn't doing away with Christmas, but is a way of equally respecting all the holidays that are being celebrated during those few weeks. Now, if someone comes into my job with gifts to be packaged and sent, and they have Christmas wrapping, I say Merry Christmas, if they have obvious Jewish wrapping paper, I tell them Happy Hanukkah. Pentacles on the paper, I tell them Happy Solstice, etc etc.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
Paul nor Jesus made women second class citizens. Read your bible man
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
I'm done here....have fun poking all the holes you like, I couldn't "save" anyone if I tried, that's His job not mine brother
Galatians 2:19-20 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. "
The Bible is only infallible and accurate to you, sir. Could you stop quoting scripture and perhaps think for yourself?
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Agreed, I love Seth and make a point of watching all of his videos. I also LOVE Mr. Deity (Brian Keith Dalton).
Yeah I meant Seth, not Sean. I enjoy hearing Seth talk of his background because he was a bigtime christian radio personality in the midwest/OK area and he's open about relating his own story.
