Avatar -Science Fiction or Disgrace ?

[island1fox]

Jim,

It's long but check out Dr. Murry Rothbard's circa 1965' article, Left and Right: The Prospects for Liberty. I think from your POV and now looking back nearly 45 years at Rothbard's observations, his comments might prove most worthwhile. Like myself when I read it, there should be several "AH-HA" moments.

I've no doubt Cameron has something in mind and yes preachy may in fact be the word but this nation and it's principles were founded on the Lockean ideal of property rights and thus the inalienable rights of the individual so any movie that forces us to face how we violate the very principles this nation was founded on IMO has good merits to it! So-called conservative decry the so-called liberal for his zeal of gov't in taking property domestically at will (property being not just physical property but in Lockean tradition all that the individual produces is property as well) for public purposes and yet the conservative doesn't decry his own efforts to do the same on the international stage under the veil of nationalism by using the guise and excuse of societal security. (Again, read Rothbard above)

I can see exactly where many conservatives and even liberals might object to the root message of property rights in Avatar (something about looking at yourself) and I'm not so sure Cameron completely sees this for what it is. Hope I'm wrong about him however. Looking forward to seeing the movie!

wkmac,
Looking at youself ?????
Cameron Mitchell and Hollywood call us bad American people Polluting our Green Planet --While THEY fly around in Private Jets,Have numerous huge homes, Ride around in LIMOS and lecture us ??
Cameron Mitchel and Hollywood --Decry war and capitalism and "Corporate" America. --Yet love to make and star in War movies that provide them with millions of dollars in one of the largest Corporate and Capitalism systems --HOLLYWOOD.
Try to cast our entire Military as women and baby killers --yet are thankless to the military that has given them the freedom to make movies.

It is amazing to look at the Empires and superpowers in history.
The Persians, the greeks, The spanish, the Romans, The French, the Germans, the Russians etc ---all conquered neighbors and took possion of land.
The only land that I know the U.S. kept --is the cemetary in France that has many of our brave young people that never made it back home.
Opec still raises and lowers the price of oil .
If we listen to Hollywood --I would have to believe that Canada, Mexico and South America no longer exist. The evil U.S. has conquered the world and control all of the oil. Is that why I am paying over Three dollars a gallon ?
Science Fiction movies are fine --if the "Clingons" were attacking the Aliens in Avitar ---Protecting their land and private property --I would have stood up and cheered. To see the U.S. Marines portrayed as animals and baby killers --and watching young American teenagers stand up and cheer as the U.S. Marines are slain ----Just makes you wonder what our future holds ??? Indoctrinate early then let the Liberal Professors finish it off in college.
At one time when we looked back and saw that spitting on returning vets was bad --imagine what a returning vet feels like when attending a "science fiction "
movie that names them as baby killers and then watches as the movie audience cheers as they are anniliated ?????

P.S Eminent Domaine ???? You must be kidding me if you think Avitar's main message is property rights ?????

 

[Lue C Fur]

wkmac,
Looking at youself ?????
Cameron Mitchell and Hollywood call us bad American people Polluting our Green Planet --While THEY fly around in Private Jets,Have numerous huge homes, Ride around in LIMOS and lecture us ??
Cameron Mitchel and Hollywood --Decry war and capitalism and "Corporate" America. --Yet love to make and star in War movies that provide them with millions of dollars in one of the largest Corporate and Capitalism systems --HOLLYWOOD.
Try to cast our entire Military as women and baby killers --yet are thankless to the military that has given them the freedom to make movies.

It is amazing to look at the Empires and superpowers in history.
The Persians, the greeks, The spanish, the Romans, The French, the Germans, the Russians etc ---all conquered neighbors and took possion of land.
The only land that I know the U.S. kept --is the cemetary in France that has many of our brave young people that never made it back home.
Opec still raises and lowers the price of oil .
If we listen to Hollywood --I would have to believe that Canada, Mexico and South America no longer exist. The evil U.S. has conquered the world and control all of the oil. Is that why I am paying over Three dollars a gallon ?
Science Fiction movies are fine --if the "Clingons" were attacking the Aliens in Avitar ---Protecting their land and private property --I would have stood up and cheered. To see the U.S. Marines portrayed as animals and baby killers --and watching young American teenagers stand up and cheer as the U.S. Marines are slain ----Just makes you wonder what our future holds ??? Indoctrinate early then let the Liberal Professors finish it off in college.
At one time when we looked back and saw that spitting on returning vets was bad --imagine what a returning vet feels like when attending a "science fiction "
movie that names them as baby killers and then watches as the movie audience cheers as they are anniliated ?????

P.S Eminent Domaine ???? You must be kidding me if you think Avitar's main message is property rights ?????

Great points!!! Its too bad that this movie has great special effects but the rest of it sounds like hollywood liberal garbage.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I will be going to see it with my family on Saturday and will give you my Siskel and Ebert. I hear the special effects are awesome but they forgot to include a plot.

 

[moreluck]

Just watched "All About Steve" with Sandra Bullock......big waste of rental money !!!

 

[wkmac]

wkmac,
Looking at youself ?????
Cameron Mitchell and Hollywood call us bad American people Polluting our Green Planet --While THEY fly around in Private Jets,Have numerous huge homes, Ride around in LIMOS and lecture us ??
Cameron Mitchel and Hollywood --Decry war and capitalism and "Corporate" America. --Yet love to make and star in War movies that provide them with millions of dollars in one of the largest Corporate and Capitalism systems --HOLLYWOOD.
Try to cast our entire Military as women and baby killers --yet are thankless to the military that has given them the freedom to make movies.

It is amazing to look at the Empires and superpowers in history.
The Persians, the greeks, The spanish, the Romans, The French, the Germans, the Russians etc ---all conquered neighbors and took possion of land.
The only land that I know the U.S. kept --is the cemetary in France that has many of our brave young people that never made it back home.
Opec still raises and lowers the price of oil .
If we listen to Hollywood --I would have to believe that Canada, Mexico and South America no longer exist. The evil U.S. has conquered the world and control all of the oil. Is that why I am paying over Three dollars a gallon ?
Science Fiction movies are fine --if the "Clingons" were attacking the Aliens in Avitar ---Protecting their land and private property --I would have stood up and cheered. To see the U.S. Marines portrayed as animals and baby killers --and watching young American teenagers stand up and cheer as the U.S. Marines are slain ----Just makes you wonder what our future holds ??? Indoctrinate early then let the Liberal Professors finish it off in college.
At one time when we looked back and saw that spitting on returning vets was bad --imagine what a returning vet feels like when attending a "science fiction "
movie that names them as baby killers and then watches as the movie audience cheers as they are anniliated ?????

P.S Eminent Domaine ???? You must be kidding me if you think Avitar's main message is property rights ?????

Island,

Reading your post above leaves me only wanting to ask 2 questions of you. Do you know who John Locke is? and the other... Of what influence was he on our nation, it's founding and the whole idea of liberty and freedom of the individual? Your post above overwhelmingly suggests the answer to both questions is a resounding NO!

The only land that I know the U.S. kept --is the cemetary in France that has many of our brave young people that never made it back home.

Really? You might notify the US gov't so they can amend the US Visa Law website to concur with your conclusions. And call the US Senate as well because they have tons of work to do in modifying a warehouse full of US treaties and post war agreements over the last 200 plus years!

Back to the movie

Christian Commentator Gary North offers his comments and reccommends Avatar

 

[island1fox]

wkmac,
I know that many people on BC hate long drawn out posts. I will keep this as short as possible and also as nice as I can possibly be in response to your post with questions for me - and the answer provided by you which shows a high degree of condescending cordiality. I also realize it is Christmas eve--I should be nice not naughty !
It would be very rare that I would mention my college degree and education --but in your case it seems to be appropriate.
I am not a barbarian --Philosopy was a minor for me . I could easily quote Locke,Voltaire, Rousseau, Kant ,Hume{no not Britt} --or hundreds of others to "spin" any argument in any direction.
To briefly stay on your hero Locke{nothing personal against him} I am sure your are aware of his basic premise against the Cartesian position and holds that man is born with "tabula rasa" an empty mind--which is shaped by experience, sensations being the basis and sources for all of our ideas.
Just consider --he lived from 1632 to 1704 --lived mainly in England with a short stint in the Netherlands. What were his experiences compared to Great thinkers and people in today's modern world ? Hope the point did not go over your head .
Also I know you are proud of your stance as a Libertarian --none of my business -but be aware as you crow about Liberty and property rights ---YOUR hero Locke was a major investor in the English Slave Trade through the Royal Africa Company and in his participation in drafting the Constitution of the Carolinas --established a feudal aristocracy and gave a master absolute power over his slaves{yes, wkmac the "good old days"}
Lockes statements on unenclosed property justified the displacement of native Americans --SURPRISE !!!!! Avatar !!!!!
I could go on and on with this post ----comparing how my experiences have shaped my opinions (LOCKES THEORY) --but I am sure that many who have read to this point are bored. So as you have already said --Back to the movie.

P.S.
I am a proud American who fully realizes that as a country or a people -nothing or no one is perfect. I am very tired of the "blame America" first crowd.
It is so very simple to me ---if you are so disgraced and disturbed by our past descretions and History ----You are free --go and live where you believe it is so much better.
I also have great Admiration and love for our military --which is why I originally posted this thread.

I realize this is Christmas eve and I truly hope for peace on earth and goodwill to all men -and may GOD continue to Bless America !!!

 

[bbsam]

Well, Island, it's not about blaming America and with all due respect viewing it as such is childish regardless of any degree(s) one may hold. Don't think for a moment that taking a self examination of the country's military, economic, social, and moral compass suggests any less love of God and Country. That self examination is not a weakness but a stength.

 

[island1fox]

bbsam,
I guess you know what they say about opinions -----opps -its Christmas eve excuse me- Each to his own --of course I love --An admitted Politcal message from a Hollywood hypocrite --that shows us in a fair and balanced way --a review of our country and military.
If it is just a science fiction movie --the hollywood idiot would not have said it was a take on the Iraq war.
If you believe what the Hollywood idiot portrayed is what our young American's are doing in Iraq --there is nothing more to be said.
P.S.
While I know what is posted is read by many ---without taking my education comment out of context ---you would have known it was in reponse to a particular poster.
Also --This movie is an example of healthy self examination ??? Please spin elswhere !!

 

[bbsam]

bbsam,
I guess you know what they say about opinions -----opps -its Christmas eve excuse me- Each to his own --of course I love --An admitted Politcal message from a Hollywood hypocrite --that shows us in a fair and balanced way --a review of our country and military.
If it is just a science fiction movie --the hollywood idiot would not have said it was a take on the Iraq war.
If you believe what the Hollywood idiot portrayed is what our young American's are doing in Iraq --there is nothing more to be said.
P.S.
While I know what is posted is read by many ---without taking my education comment out of context ---you would have known it was in reponse to a particular poster.
Also --This movie is an example of healthy self examination ??? Please spin elswhere !!

It was "a take on the Iraq war". Nothing more nothing less. Not yours not mine just one. And in a uniquely American way just as valid as any other. Healthy self examination what you and others call "blame America" requires real back and forth and respectful dialogue between all the "takes". It's why the Democrats fight amongst themselves and have to disregard the party of "NO". Luckily the Dems are a big enough tent to hold both Libs and Cons.

 

[gandydancer]

It was "a take on the Iraq war". Nothing more nothing less. Not yours not mine just one. And in a uniquely American way just as valid as any other. Healthy self examination what you and others call "blame America" requires real back and forth and respectful dialogue between all the "takes". It's why the Democrats fight amongst themselves and have to disregard the party of "NO". Luckily the Dems are a big enough tent to hold both Libs and Cons.

Oh, yeah. One "take" is as good as any other. Diverse opinions, even idiotic ones, are our strength, in a unique American way. Luckily the Dems are in charge of debasing the currency -- that's why it is being done so well!

 

[bbsam]

Oh, yeah. One "take" is as good as any other. Diverse opinions, even idiotic ones, are our strength, in a unique American way. Luckily the Dems are in charge of debasing the currency -- that's why it is being done so well!

Welcome to the thread. Did you get your bumper sticker at the door?

 

[JimJimmyJames]

It's why the Democrats fight amongst themselves and have to disregard the party of "NO". Luckily the Dems are a big enough tent to hold both Libs and Cons.

I have said it before and I will say it again, the Democrats are not liars, you know what your getting.

Republicans tell conservatives everything they want to hear...and then behave like big goverment liberals anyways.

 

[Babagounj]

as for seeing this movie , I will follow the advice my mother used to say; if its any good just wait until they show it on tv.

 

[bbsam]

I have said it before and I will say it again, the Democrats are not liars, you know what your getting.

Republicans tell conservatives everything they want to hear...and then behave like big goverment liberals anyways.

Exactly.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

as for seeing this movie , I will follow the advice my mother used to say; if its any good just wait until they show it on tv.

Babs, while this may be true most of the time, it is not true for this movie, especially if you choose to see the 3-D version. The special effects are supposed to be the best ever made and that coupled with the surround sound make it a "must see" at the theater.

 

[island1fox]

I have said it before and I will say it again, the Democrats are not liars, you know what your getting.

Republicans tell conservatives everything they want to hear...and then behave like big goverment liberals anyways.

JJJ,
A good post !!! Except I believe they all are Liars !!
Latest Example ----Obama Change --"Health care reform will not be done behind closed doors--no deal making --the American people will watch the process on c-span "
Did any of you enjoy the telecast ?
Can anyone say closed door secret meetings ?
Can anyone say no sleazy deals ???
Hey I know that top Democrat just lied to us ---Gee I thought only Bush was capable of that !!!
OH no !!! Do not say Liar ---You will be branded a racist !!!!

 

[diesel96]

JJJ,
A good post !!! Except I believe they all are Liars !!
Latest Example ----Obama Change --"Health care reform will not be done behind closed doors--no deal making --the American people will watch the process on c-span "
Did any of you enjoy the telecast ?
Can anyone say closed door secret meetings ?
Can anyone say no sleazy deals ???
Hey I know that top Democrat just lied to us ---Gee I thought only Bush was capable of that !!!
OH no !!! Do not say Liar ---You will be branded a racist !!!!

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/videoLibrary/blog/?p=121

http://conservativenorthwest.com/?p=1284

http://www.c-spanclassroom.org/pdf/Health_Care_Debate_Lesson_Plan_Dec2009.pdf

http://cspan.org/Watch/C-SPAN2.aspx

Island, closed door meetings mean exactly that, you show me an Adm/House/ or Senate with no closed door meetings and I'll show you snow white riding pink unicorns....and please, contain yourself, try not to inject the race card into this thread...Look, the links above show that the bulk of HealthCare Reform was aired. Yes, dirty deals are made behind closed doors, but lets evaluate who the sleazy deals were made with. Gee, what a surprise, Conservative blue dogs and other random sleazy Repub's. What does that tell you Island. The dirty politics and sleazy deals were made to satisfy conservatives values, and weaken HealthCare Reform from it's original intention, which grinds my gears.

 

[purplesky]

I guess the real question islandfox1 is why the hell do you always have to rip on the folks on the left? We know you are on the right and we get it already. Do you have an agenda or something? I am suprised you are not blaming President Obama for this movie!!!!

 

[pickup]

bbsam,
I guess you know what they say about opinions -----opps -its Christmas eve excuse me- Each to his own --of course I love --An admitted Politcal message from a Hollywood hypocrite --that shows us in a fair and balanced way --a review of our country and military.
If it is just a science fiction movie --the hollywood idiot would not have said it was a take on the Iraq war.
If you believe what the Hollywood idiot portrayed is what our young American's are doing in Iraq --there is nothing more to be said.
P.S.
While I know what is posted is read by many ---without taking my education comment out of context ---you would have known it was in reponse to a particular poster.
Also --This movie is an example of healthy self examination ??? Please spin elswhere !!

You do realize that you did help underwrite this film by buying a ticket. Assuming you saw the trailer like I did (I saw the trailer when I saw 2012) , you could not help but know that this was going to be a theme of the film.

 

[tourists24]

I'll show you snow white riding pink unicorns....

regardless,,,, Id kinda like to see this...... Dizzee can u help us out?