Of course I understand that people dont see things eye to eye on this... but your post simply stated no one is going to heaven. I disagree. Thus my response. No matter what your belief is, it is based on faith that it is true. If anyone can "prove" theirs is the "right" one, then congratulations; you will have done something no one has ever been able to do. All you can do is bring your word and hope to get people to agree with you.
I can really go on and on about this issue at length and in many directions, but I dont want to thump my bible.
Tourist,
If you look back at both my posts, even the one that jerked your chain (one you jerked yourself) it was all done in fun and humor. Notice those smiley faces. And the simple truth is, even taking your belief system, your physical body does remain in the ground and does decay. Outside a metal coffin and concrete encasement, your body over time would become compost for the surrounding plant life. That is a known absolute. Now is it your contention that upon enturnment that the soul re-engages the body and both depart for the heavenly abode? Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought only Jesus had so far accomplished this feat thus his special place in religious history?
The very fact that you failed to even see the humor, that until you chimed up I was happy to leave as my only response here, thus reacting I believe from a position of insecurity in your own beliefs is IMO very telling.
Or was it the fact that I thumbed up FedExer for having the guts to challenge with a contraian POV? I may or may not agree with him on all points but I enjoy those who dare pose a contraian idea. And even in christian circles among people who still believe, there are questions and debate about the origins of the biblical texts. In the Old Testament you had writtings where the word for god was elohim which has a plural context and in other cases god comes from the word yahweh or the YHWH which is used to translate the forbidden speaking of god's name in jewish tradition. This word is singular in form and context. Many suggest the difference has to do with the pre-Eygpt experience when the "people of god" still held to ideals of god that Abram brought out with him for Ur which is located in the old Sumer culture that is driven by polytheism. After the Egyptian experience, monotheistic culture was adopted and the single god wording was the more common form. There the bible itself speaks of different manifestations of what god is or could be. Later god manifests back to a type of polytheism, 3 gods in one (Trinity) that more represents the Zoroasterian ideal, a belief exposed to during the the babylonian deportations in 600 BC and later also manifest in the Roman ideals of Mithraism and Sol Invictus.
The fact is, the only proof of heaven that you have is what is written in a book from a collection of narratives collected over time, written by authors who are of some debate and in fact tell multiple and often conflicting ideas of god as being the actual sources and that the book itself only became cannon after a group of men gathered for political purposes voted on that book in a majority wins setting.
What you also ignored is the possibility that I've looked at science and advanced physics and concluded that it is possible that alternate dimensions may exist and therefore it's also possible that some manner of afterlife may indeed be possible. You also ignore that looking at just the atomic structure of life (matter) and how precise, not even advancing into other phases and means of other forms of matter and life, ie single cell, multi-cell, animal or human, it's hard to ignore that this design may indeed not be random at all and it does show a huge measure of intelligence. Maybe it's just the fact that I see "potential evidence" of some force, energy or higher presence not as something that fits neatly into a personified little box and then manipulated by men for their own purposes but rather a vast potential, one we may not be able to explain or comprehend yet we can sit in awe at the granduer and beauty we can see if we only look.
What about the human soul? Is there such thing or is it once the chemical processes of the body stop we are gone forever? Science is learning that cells develop memory and if true, can we then deny the potential that these memories somehow transfer down to the atomic and sub-atomic levels of matter that continue even after life ends and the decay process is complete? Can DNA, the blueprint of life be extracted well long after death and used today in limited form? Yes it can and what happens if science at some point can take DNA from millions of years ago and re-create life with it and what if the cellular memory can be re-energized along with it? If man "might" be able to do this, then is it equally possible that the architect of the universe could do this as well? Sure but where's my proof? I can only theorize so could I then tell people who don't believe as I that they are lesser beings? I can't and won't but in another time I might commission my ideas be put in writting and advanced and then over time they become embedded as fact in the human mind.
Remember, the universe is vast and in many ways unknowing because of it's vastness. Sounds a bit like what we think of god doesn't it? If the universe and all things were created in some way by design and that across the vastness of space we see that time and events take place that in fact re-cycle matter into new forms, so if the process is true on such large scale, should we not consider the same potential on our own scale? Is it possible that in some future we are "re-cycled" if you will? Sure, but again can I prove it? Nope!
So many would say you can't know the mind of God and I would agree but yet are you not suggesting in many respects via the book known as the bible that one can in fact know the mind of God? The secret formula of winning God's big lottery, the means of knowing future events and the precise and exact manner of how we should live, act and think?
You're free to believe as you like as my own wife and daughters believe and attend church regularly, one daughter plays in the church band. I even encourage it because it works for them. My wife needs a completely different way to see and experience god than I and therefore needs things presented in such a way that she feels comfortable. From my POV, there is no eternal harm believing in heaven and hell or whatever suits your fancy but look at the bright side, if I'm wrong there's one less person in heaven and you'll just enjoy more eternal space to have the good life!
.
.
Do we in some measure of truth all stand guilty of this? I wouldn't object to that assertion. There in lay my point about human conceived texts we call the inerrant word of god.
