Build a mosque...
- Thread starter moreluck
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UPS Lifer
Well-Known Member
I know that I may sound like a conservative's conservative but I am not. I am not a kool aid drinker. I make my own mind up based on my life experiences. I don't have a lot of good things politically to say about Bush his last two years in office. I think he was in retirement mode. BUT I strongly believe him to be a man of honor and charity. I believe he was a president for the entire country and tried to do what was right for ALL Americans. I also do not have any major problems with Clinton as president. I detest that he embarrassed himself and the American people with his sexual escapades but I will try to separate that from running the country. Though a valid argument can be made that he put the country at a security risk. It is a weakness that our enemies can exploit. A true conservative & Christian Republican would probably have a much more intense opinion. I believe in a lot of the same things that most moderate Dems & Reps believe in. I also believe in a lot of things that Libertarians believe in.
Here is where I have a problem... I feel that the uber-left looks down upon the rest of the country. There is an air of righteous indignation and flat out arrogance that brings out intense feelings in me. They are the only ones who know what is best for the rest of us and they feel that they are smarter and more educated than anyone to the right of them. They should be making ALL the decisions. I believe in individual freedoms which are given to us by a higher power - state's rights - fiscal responsibility and a secure national defense that fosters peace through strength.
At UPS, I managed different departments and operations for over 20 years. There was the "Union" and there was the "Company". I ALWAYS did what I thought was the right thing to do. The more wisdom I gained, the better I was able to compromise and make decisions that were good for both sides. You didn't see grievances. I met with stewards every week. Stewards were invited to any type of meeting other than a planning mtg that I was involved in. Any time there was a problem we sat down and hammered out a solution. There was no us versus them. I wouldn't allow it.
Our problem with this country today is that we cannot find common ground. Each side must win at all costs. If things don't change soon this could be what unravels the very fabric of this American society. It is up to the people in charge to reach out across the isle and find common ground and learn how to "split the baby". This administration believes they know better than the majority of the people. They govern through redistribution of wealth - take from the rich to give to the poor. We are a nanny state. Too many people depend on the government for their existence. The ubers don't understand that American society knows best and they are servants to the people! Don't get me wrong there are right wingers who do the same thing. They all need to be gone. ... and if you think I would endorse Palin for president, you are dead wrong.
As for the "Jews". I really don't like that term. The way I was raised and my heritage is aligned closely with Jewish and Latin culture and family life. My religious upbringing comes directly from the Old Testament of the Bible. It is not hard for me to understand the Jewish culture. I never could understand why the Jewish people were so hated. I still don't understand it today... unless it is because they are feared ??
When it comes to religion, I am fine with what ever anyone's belief is including atheism. I don't believe there is a chosen people. Everyone is going to move on and meet their maker.
What I have intense feelings about is someone trying to tell me what to believe in.
Muslim religion view....
Radical Muslims have declared war on Christianity & Judaism as well as America etc.
These individuals can hide for years in sleeper cells.
So, as a country, we need to be cognizant of that and protect our interest and safety or all Americans and thoroughly vet these folks as the need arises. I support what ever activity is needed to root out the sleeper cells short of religious discrimination.
Dies says he is for the "little guy". Since when are Muslims the "little guy"? The Israelites have been an oppressed society for 2500 plus years!
As for the mosque....
You have to be open minded and be flexible to make progress.
Some want this mosque - most New Yorkers don't. So compromise move it to another location that is acceptable to both sides.
Sorry for the long post - I know that most won't read it but it feels good to get it out.
P
pickup
Guest
UPSLIfer I read your post and enjoyed every word.
As for the term "the jews", depends on who says it and how they say it.
Two examples: (first one taken from wikipedia)
The Jews (Hebrew: יְהוּדִים "Yehudim" IPA: jɛhuːdiːm), also known as the Jewish people, are a nation and ethnoreligious group originating in the Israelites or Hebrews of the Ancient Near East. The Jewish ethnicity, nationality, and religion are strongly interrelated, as Judaism is the traditional faith of the Jewish nation.[6][7][8] Converts to Judaism, whose status as Jews within the Jewish ethnos is equal to those born into it, have been absorbed into the Jewish people throughout the millennia.
okay second example: taken from a very influential man, Martin Luther ( a christian reformer of some renown)
I had made up my mind to write no more either about the Jews or against them. But since I learned that those miserable and accursed people do not cease to lure to themselves even us, that is, the Christians, I have published this little book, so that I might be found among those who opposed such poisonous activities of the Jews and who warned the Christians to be on their guard against them. I would not have believed that a Christian could be duped by the Jews into taking their exile and wretchedness upon himself. However, the devil is the god of the world, and wherever God's word is absent he has an easy task, not only with the weak but also with the strong. May God help us. Amen.
Grace and peace in the Lord. Dear sir and good friend, I have received a treatise in which a Jew engages in dialog with a Christian. He dares to pervert the scriptural passages which we cite in testimony to our faith, concerning our Lord Christ and Mary his mother, and to interpret them quite differently. With this argument he thinks he can destroy the basis of our faith.
This is my reply to you and to him. It is not my purpose to quarrel with the Jews, nor to learn from them how they interpret or understand Scripture; I know all of that very well already. Much less do I propose to convert the Jews, for that is impossible. Those two excellent men, Lyra and Burgensis, together with others, truthfully described the Jews' vile interpretation for us two hundred and one hundred years ago respectively. Indeed they refuted it thoroughly. However, this was no help at all to the Jews, and they have grown steadily worse.
They have failed to learn any lesson from the terrible distress that has been theirs for over fourteen hundred years in exile. Nor can they obtain any end or definite terminus of this, as they suppose, by means of the vehement cries and laments to God. If these blows do not help, it is resonable to assume that our talking and explaining will help even less.
that above example was taken from this work "The Jews and their Lies".
So term in wikipedia has no negative connations.
The term in Martin Luther's writings( the latter ones especially for in his earlier days , he had such high hopes for "god's chosen people") has a bit more of a negative connotation. Some have argued that from the acorn of Luther, the mighty oak of Hitler was born"
Not that the previously undefeated champion of religion, the Roman Catholic Church, of which Luther was a member before his breakup, was a champion of the Jewish people ( I'll let you research that , it wouldn't be hard). "The Jews Killed Christ", how many times have I heard that one from many friends I have in the Roman Catholic Church?
I think I am making some kind of point and am hopefully answering your questions about why the Jews are hated(not rightfully so).
As for the term "the jews", depends on who says it and how they say it.
Two examples: (first one taken from wikipedia)
The Jews (Hebrew: יְהוּדִים "Yehudim" IPA: jɛhuːdiːm), also known as the Jewish people, are a nation and ethnoreligious group originating in the Israelites or Hebrews of the Ancient Near East. The Jewish ethnicity, nationality, and religion are strongly interrelated, as Judaism is the traditional faith of the Jewish nation.[6][7][8] Converts to Judaism, whose status as Jews within the Jewish ethnos is equal to those born into it, have been absorbed into the Jewish people throughout the millennia.
okay second example: taken from a very influential man, Martin Luther ( a christian reformer of some renown)
I had made up my mind to write no more either about the Jews or against them. But since I learned that those miserable and accursed people do not cease to lure to themselves even us, that is, the Christians, I have published this little book, so that I might be found among those who opposed such poisonous activities of the Jews and who warned the Christians to be on their guard against them. I would not have believed that a Christian could be duped by the Jews into taking their exile and wretchedness upon himself. However, the devil is the god of the world, and wherever God's word is absent he has an easy task, not only with the weak but also with the strong. May God help us. Amen.
Grace and peace in the Lord. Dear sir and good friend, I have received a treatise in which a Jew engages in dialog with a Christian. He dares to pervert the scriptural passages which we cite in testimony to our faith, concerning our Lord Christ and Mary his mother, and to interpret them quite differently. With this argument he thinks he can destroy the basis of our faith.
This is my reply to you and to him. It is not my purpose to quarrel with the Jews, nor to learn from them how they interpret or understand Scripture; I know all of that very well already. Much less do I propose to convert the Jews, for that is impossible. Those two excellent men, Lyra and Burgensis, together with others, truthfully described the Jews' vile interpretation for us two hundred and one hundred years ago respectively. Indeed they refuted it thoroughly. However, this was no help at all to the Jews, and they have grown steadily worse.
They have failed to learn any lesson from the terrible distress that has been theirs for over fourteen hundred years in exile. Nor can they obtain any end or definite terminus of this, as they suppose, by means of the vehement cries and laments to God. If these blows do not help, it is resonable to assume that our talking and explaining will help even less.
that above example was taken from this work "The Jews and their Lies".
So term in wikipedia has no negative connations.
The term in Martin Luther's writings( the latter ones especially for in his earlier days , he had such high hopes for "god's chosen people") has a bit more of a negative connotation. Some have argued that from the acorn of Luther, the mighty oak of Hitler was born"
Not that the previously undefeated champion of religion, the Roman Catholic Church, of which Luther was a member before his breakup, was a champion of the Jewish people ( I'll let you research that , it wouldn't be hard). "The Jews Killed Christ", how many times have I heard that one from many friends I have in the Roman Catholic Church?
I think I am making some kind of point and am hopefully answering your questions about why the Jews are hated(not rightfully so).
UPS Lifer
Well-Known Member
Interesting article. I guess I could see how some might look down upon the Jews for crucifying Christ but, (and this is a big BUT), Christ was a Jew.
I have a close friend who is Jewish and ran for Congress in Chicago back in '94 . I am going to pose these questions to him and get his thoughts on this. Coincidentally, I will be seeing him on September 11th.
I think you hit the nail on the head. It depends who says it and how they say it.... in reference to the term "Jews".
I have a close friend who is Jewish and ran for Congress in Chicago back in '94 . I am going to pose these questions to him and get his thoughts on this. Coincidentally, I will be seeing him on September 11th.
I think you hit the nail on the head. It depends who says it and how they say it.... in reference to the term "Jews".
moreluck
golden ticket member
I don't have much experience with Jewish people....Catholic school & all. The most experience has been in my over 55 community. It has not been positive. My Jewish neighbor (who I don't speak to) reported us for a CC&R violation and kept reporting us until we were forced to buy a 3rd car. Our offense was parking in OUR own driveway. Yet, her husband runs a business out of his home and has for 6 years, and that is totally against the rules, but nothing happens to them. That is discrimination.
Many other people park in their driveways with only one other car in the 2-car garage, but because their neighbors don't complain, nothing happens.
My neighbor is the major beatch of the street. She has reported everybody for some reason or other. She has no friends....gee, I wonder why.
Many other people park in their driveways with only one other car in the 2-car garage, but because their neighbors don't complain, nothing happens.
My neighbor is the major beatch of the street. She has reported everybody for some reason or other. She has no friends....gee, I wonder why.
UPS Lifer
Well-Known Member
More
That sucks! There is nothing that will make you move faster than a bad neighbor. I never thought about this until now but my neighbor is a Jewish lawyer from the San Fernando Valley. This is a second home for them. Two weeks after they closed, a drip line broke and flooded my master bedroom. They had changed the timer to 8 hours of watering! YIKES! It took 4 months for the repair. We never got a call wondering how things went. I only got one call from him when we shut their main off and locked it! To me a bad neighbor is a bad neighbor.
I went to 12 years of Catholic school. My senior year we reviewed all the other major religions (2 semesters). I am glad we did that - it really opened my eyes and got me thinking.
That sucks! There is nothing that will make you move faster than a bad neighbor. I never thought about this until now but my neighbor is a Jewish lawyer from the San Fernando Valley. This is a second home for them. Two weeks after they closed, a drip line broke and flooded my master bedroom. They had changed the timer to 8 hours of watering! YIKES! It took 4 months for the repair. We never got a call wondering how things went. I only got one call from him when we shut their main off and locked it! To me a bad neighbor is a bad neighbor.
I went to 12 years of Catholic school. My senior year we reviewed all the other major religions (2 semesters). I am glad we did that - it really opened my eyes and got me thinking.
diesel96
Well-Known Member
You rant about conservatives putting out misinformation in a post filled with misinformation. Laura Ingram did not say she supported the CC/with a Mosque inside at Park51. What she said was(paraphrased), she supported efforts to bring the various religions (including muslims) together in harmony. Not the same thing,.
Wow, Trp..your really splitting hairs. How desperate can you be to spin a conservative commentators remark and then ignore the eventual flip flop. Enjoy your man crush on Laura...... you might make Sarah jealous....
Glen Beck hates 911 families? source please.
It's been posted ALREADY, KEEP UP... we don't got all day to keep you up to speed....
What lies about Imam Rauf are you referring to? And what truths dispelled those lies? source please.
Trp, again...you need to go back on this thread, and get up to speed....i'm not playing your game of catch up and repeat......hint...There was a John Stewart link that had a collage of lies and accusations of the NYC Imam. And commom sense dispells those lies.....
I would be willing to bet that most people that believe Obama to be a practicing muslim today, have believed it since he threw his hat in the presidential ring.
I will be willing to bet since Conservative talking heads hadn't put this issue to bed, then maybe they can scare these imbeciles for votes.....President who ? Barrack
The Constitution does NOT support the building of a mosque, it disallows the Federal gov from creating an official national religion. Granted the SCOTUS has interpreted the actual wording to a much broader meaning. In fact even in that broader reach of the 1st amendment the gov can not support the building of the mosque/CC.
Trp....You really grabbing for straws here....The Fed Gov't has done nothing but remind Americans, that all individuals are protected by 1st Amendment rights. From what orifice are you reaching into claiming the Fed Gov't is creating an official nat'l religion. If anybody is trying to establish a Nat'l Religion, it's these freak followers of the Glen Beck Evangelical, take back our Honor Rally or whatever it's called. And FYI, not only is the Constitutionality of the Mosque/Community Center a no-brainer for SCOTUS, but for any freshman law student.....
More....our Gov't's intial reaction to the Katrina victims was a disgrace to our country. Which I know, you don't want to deal with because it happened on your hero's watch. Listening to conservatives use the 9/11 victims as a crutch against buildging the NYC Mosque. is another disgrace. Back in the Bush era, 9/11 victims were ridiculed when they dared spoke up and questioned 9/11 commisions and authorities when they wern't getting straight answers. Just because of who was in charge at the time, your side thought it was convenient to tell them to sit down and shut up.....
ahhh...Lue (the most politically bias pic and video displayer of BC ) has the audacity to cry foul when his wittle feelings are hurt from and a anti-Glen Beck video....
Lue says .....9/11 victims=welfare leaches...where's the political cartoon for that one Lue ? And why don't you bring that sign to a mosque demonstration...
What a double standard...anyone who questioned the Bush Adm was labeled un-American or a welfare leach by Right Wingers. Now their propping up 9/11 victims as a crutch and showing up for Ribbon Cutting Ceremonies in Katrina Neighborhoods and other Stimulus projects...
Wkmac...That chart really puts the Islam-aphobia hysteria in perspective.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
imbeciles for votes.....President who ? Barrack
Wkmac...That chart really puts the Islam-aphobia hysteria in perspective.
On a purely humorous note, President Obama should completely embrace his middle name with almost over emphasis for effect. Hussein is a semetic word meaning.....wait for it....Good Looking!
On a note concerning islamophobia, Strike the Root had a very interesting piece yesterday called "The Muslim Menance" that raised several interesting points.
Just stumbled on an interesting quote.
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trplnkl
555
Splitting hairs? All I did was paraphrase Ingram's words (because I can't remember them exactly) and I said upfront it was parapharsed, no spin needed. BTW, the news clip I was referring to( taken from Ingram's interview with Rauf's wife I believe) was viewed on one of the liberal biased media. No flip flop on the issue either. Believing that an attempt to find a bit of harmony among differing religions is a good thing is not a flip flop from also believing that having a muslim mosque/CC within 600 feet of ground zero is not a sign of a healing gesture. Creating a good working relationship(harmony) between differing parties requires communication and compromises. Even someone as filled with hate as yourself should be able to see that,
Yea boy, Jon Stewart, the liberal comedian looking for laughs at the cost of truth. Stewart twists what is said, edits clips cutting out the truth and adding other cuts from totally unrelated issues, and when that isn't funny enough to get that laugh, he down right lies. That's your version of common sense? hmmmm, let's see...twisting the truth and telling out right lies....yea I guess you would think that was common sense.
BTW, I would feel more comfortable having a crush on Laura or Sarah than sharing your obvious love affair with Jon and Keith.
Hmmmm, I really thought his middle name was Hussien, is it NOT?I would be willing to bet that most people that believe Obama to be a practicing muslim today, have believed it since he threw his hat in the presidential ring.
I will be willing to bet since Conservative talking heads hadn't put this issue to bed, then maybe they can scare these imbeciles for votes.....President who ? Barrack
In you post #299, you said" the 1st amendment steadfastly supports it." (the mosque/cc). you are the one grabbing for straws. The IS NOT what the 1st Amendment does. The 1st does not allow the feds to support ANY religion as an official state religion. It does not allow the feds to disallow the free practice of any religion. In the context of the Mosque/CC planned for Park51, the ONLY thing the 1st addresses on the matter is that the feds can have no official say so.
your crude comment of " From what orifice are you reaching into claiming the Fed Gov't is creating an official nat'l religion." was uncalled for, but whatever floats your boat. Keeping with your lead I will say that you must have pulled this one from your own rectal sphincter. I never said nor implied the feds were trying to create a national religion, just that the 1st Amendment does not support the mosque/CC.
If you are gonna try to twist my words, you're gonna have to try harder.
moreluck
golden ticket member
Farrakhan is in favor of the mosque.....gee, I'm shocked 
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...sses-support-planned-mosque-near-ground-zero/
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...sses-support-planned-mosque-near-ground-zero/
diesel96
Well-Known Member
ahhh...Lue (the most politically bias pic and video displayer of BC )[/B]
Thanks...i have so much more...just been so busy i could not post that much. Obama and you lefties make it so easyhas the audacity to cry foul when his wittle feelings are hurt from and a anti-Glen Beck video....
No hurt feelings here...i expect it from a left wing Obama leg humper like you to post garbage and out right lies.
Lue says .....9/11 victims=welfare leaches...where's the political cartoon for that one Lue ? And why don't you bring that sign to a mosque demonstration...
I wish i was at near the Mosque sight...unlike you who hides under Nancys skirt i would be out protesting it along with the other patriots.
What a double standard...anyone who questioned the Bush Adm was labeled un-American or a welfare leach by Right Wingers. Now their propping up 9/11 victims as a crutch and showing up for Ribbon Cutting Ceremonies in Katrina Neighborhoods and other Stimulus projects...
You really should get some help for the anger issues you have. Be careful...your gonna have a stroke. LMAO!!!!
You like to mention leg humping often in your posts....Were you abused by the family pet as a child ? If so, did you report it or kept silent cause you enjoyed it ?
So you claim to be a patriot for protesting against a group from freely practising their religion. Or because you have a flag shirt and are waving flags you are more patriotic or American than anyone else.
After 911 all I heard from the Neo-Con sheep was "They hate us for our freedoms"..
And the Sheep has been working hard ever since to get rid of those freedoms.
Most of that mob anger at the NYC protest has precious little to do with the actual Construction of the Mosque/CC, and everything to do with the culture of hate of Muslims spawned by the sore-lossing anti-Obama Republicans and fermented by the TEA-bagger mentality.
I wear a hat that sort of looks like a skullcap - mostly for riding motorcycles.
Well, luckily have a white tan complextion. If it was brown or black could I enjoy the freedom to ride thru your town , or would the mob think of me as a Muslim and protest....
av8torntn
Well-Known Member
What do your sexual preferences have to do with anything? I have not heard anyone try to stop you from getting tea bagged. That is really your own business and I say if you enjoy it have at it I would just prefer to not hear about it.
Please do post pictures. Point of intrigue. Call it a curiosity, like visiting "Rotten.com", or something of that nature.
diesel96
Well-Known Member
The Tea-Party originators named themselves, stop blaming the MSM. The term Tea-Bagger is a term of endearment for me...
, one has to have their mind in the gutter or in porn to associate it with the sexaul act. When the Gym teacher/Football Coach yelled at you to "stop pussyfooting around" did it upset you ? If your Buddy says "Lets go have a cocktail", are you appalled....I'm sure you heard worse in the military....Lighten up Francis....lol
moreluck
golden ticket member
".......The term Tea-Bagger is a term of endearment ........."
That term is obnoxious and only people like Jeanine Garafalo use it. It's disgusting and the mods have eliminated posts with that term in them before. Stop using it !!......the correct term is Tea Partier.......as for me, the correct term is Republican!!
That term is obnoxious and only people like Jeanine Garafalo use it. It's disgusting and the mods have eliminated posts with that term in them before. Stop using it !!......the correct term is Tea Partier.......as for me, the correct term is Republican!!
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Republican
Republican
Republican
Republican
Republican
OK, I got that out of my system--Mom wants us to stop using that "obnoxious" term.
Republican
Republican
Republican
Republican
OK, I got that out of my system--Mom wants us to stop using that "obnoxious" term.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
And Republican's don't even have sex while they are standing up ... someone might think they are dancing.
Please do post pictures.
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