OldManAllowance
Well-Known Member
Bravo..BrownSuit
Buyout in 2013
- Thread starter Karma...
- Start date
Catatonic
Nine Lives
See below for a small sampling of companies that pay a better dividend yield than does UPS.
I picked these because they are well known companies that have been around and have good fundamentals and excellent credit ratings ... like UPS.
UPS - 2.9%
McDonalds - 3.0%
General Mills - 3.2%
Pepsi - 3.3%
Proctor & Gamble - 3.3%
Johnson & Johnson - 3.5%
Abbott Labs - 3.6 %
Kimberly Clark - 4.0%
Con Ed - 4.1%
Pfizer - 4.1%
Bristol-Myers Squibb - 4.2%
Southern Co - 4.4%
Merck - 4.4%
Progress Energy - 4.8%
Duke Energy - 4.9%
Eli Lilly - 5.3%
Verizon - 5.4%
AT&T - 5.9%
There are many dozens of others above 3.0%.
Dragon
Package Center Manager
Seriously...Another level of accountability...how many people do you need to tell the operators no. When you get your normal 2% pay raise this year please come back and read your post.
pretzel_man
Well-Known Member
Raises this year will average 2.75% as previously. (maybe 3%) Is that good? Nope.....
However, contrary to popular belief, the demon is NOT being a public company. Its NOT IE. Its NOT the management committee.
I completed my 37th peak season this year. I don't recall life being a cakewalk when we were private. We worked long hours. Production was king. There were struggles every day. Just like now.
An MIP above 1.5 was considered great, and 2.0 was considered HUGE. The difference was that back then, the stock grew. We got our reward every 3 months when the board met.
Growth was the magic of UPS. The changes that are seen as negative today are unfortunately necessary to get the meager growth (or maintenance) of the stock price.
Another thing.... When we were private, we maintained a PE ratio of 12 to 14. We are well above that now. If net profits grow, so will stock. Its unfortunate that so many complain about things designed to grow net profits when that is what is needed.
The enemy is the competition. We need our packages back. They are being moved by a non-union, contractor workforce.
Finally, there is no point in discussing the money grade 20's and above make. Its immaterial to the overall stock price. Do the math.....
beentheredonethat
Well-Known Member
Brownsuit... Currently my job has not been put into the newer bands yet. However, I do know a lot of people who were impacted. While I have not seen anyone with a "negative pay increase" excluding those who are demoted from one job to another (mgr to supv). I do see "negative increases" in the sense that many people are "maxed" out and no longer get a raise. However, when Inflation goes up a few percent and your out of pocket for Health and Welfare goes up. In effect, you get a negative pay raise. You may not see it that way, but it is quite true.
As far as how the pay bands were done.. again, my department hasn't been impacted yet, but I have heard we will be this coming year. I do know a lot of guys in IE in the district. What I think is crazy and makes me realize how screwed up the system is. Every FT IE Supv is the same pay grade (I believe it is a 20E but can't swear to it).
I've done enough IE jobs as a supervisor in the past to know certain IE jobs are a heck of a lot easier then others. Or maybe a better way to put it, needs less skill or knowledge then other IE jobs. Jobs such as Hub IE are relatively easy, pkg IE a bit harder, at the top end of IE jobs are Fdr IE, Air IE, Sales IE, and B&friend IE. (In my opinion in that order). Yet there is no difference in pay band for any of the FT IE jobs. That's ridiculous. I was told, (who knows if it's true or not) that originally corporate had district IE jobs as different pay grades (ie 20D, 20E etc) However, the IE mgrs shot it down, since it made rotating their people harder to manage.
When you think of it and think hard. How can you say the whole pay bands are fair, when every job in a dept has the same pay grade?
Catatonic
Nine Lives
Just to be clear:
Casca asked at what level the new partnership starts and I replied Level 20.
He stated after that - "So its Div Mgr and up ?"
To which I replied - "Division Manager is Level 18."
Until you brought this up, no one else had ...
but ...
I agree with your "out-of-the-blue" statement. I certainly am not interested. These people have a stressful and thankless job and it seems to get even worse at higher levels.
It's the same as the CEO job. It has gone up hundreds of percent but the impact on company profitability is irrelevant.
You folks make many great points....I should have been clearer on the negetive pay increase...If you dont get inflation you have a negetive pay increase.. If the stock doesnt stay even with inflation since the company went public its a negetive pay increase. The BODs sole job is to move the price upwards thus making the stock attractive to investers. It doesnt take a genius with a calculator to see these failures.
pretzel_man
Well-Known Member
Hoax,
With all due respect (and I do have respect for you), when you say partnership starts at grade 20.... Well I think there is an undertone there...
Maybe I misread it.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
I'm just going by the changes imposed on UPS when it became public.
Level 20 is the lowest level of VP at UPS which has defined responsibilities and authority.
Consequently, all significant forms at UPS (PDD's, RFCs, etc.) require a Level 20 or higher before it will be acted on.
Most real decisions at UPS (within my purview*) are made at a Level 20 or higher.
Shortly after UPS went public, the level 18's were gathered in Corporate and explained the fact that there would be a significant differences in compensation and benefits going forward (along with increased authority and accountability).
These expressed differences along with my observations (albeit in the Corporate arena) have led me to strongly believe that there is a clear and observable difference in Level 20 and above. I have even spoke of this "apparent" new level of partnership with Level 20's, Level 22's and even one Level 24. They did not object to this way of viewing the partnership and seemed to acknowledge its existence.
Maybe the more acceptable term to be used is Junior and Senior partnership.
I don't really have any strong feelings about this new division in the partnership (It is what it is) as it was always there to some extent. Even a Level 22 (District Manager) did not have freehand to make large expenditures back in the day.
So with that said, I'm not sure about my undertone ... it is apparent and even makes sense to me and probably inevitable within an extremely large publicly-traded corporation.
I am curious as to the undertone you speak of. Perhaps if you expressed what the attributes and consequences of that undertone are, it could be of educational benefit to our younger "partners".
*In this instance, purview means the range of vision, insight, or understanding. It does not imply any aspect of control or authority.
pretzel_man
Well-Known Member
From my perspective this is unchanged....
In the old days, these people were called region staff managers. They had lots of power in their functions.
You couldn't get an appropriation through without them signing.
They got extra incentives just like today.
Think about it.... How many people in this company are at that level? 300? 400?
That's one out of 1,000 people.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
I think we are in agreement essentially ... as I stated in my previous post:
I don't really have any strong feelings about this new division in the partnership (It is what it is) as it was always there to some extent.
Our differences are probably small and more a matter of semantics than true philosophical beliefs.
We are all influenced by our different experiences, expectations and desire to hang on to what was good (the partnership is certainly worthy of hanging on to).
It is what it is and I have not had any problems adapting to or working with the changes over the last decade or so as appears to be the case with you too.
Hoaxster posted a good list of companies with 3% dividend or more. And as he stated that list is just a small representation. Though there is always a greater risk with individual stocks when looking to capture a good dividend. Lucent is one that was widely held stok that no longer exists. Others are gone or only valued at a small fraction of what they were a number of years ago.
Another way to capture a good dividend is with a mutual like like Franklin Income, a fund that holds bonds, high dividend stocks, preferred stocks, etc. Over last 10 years the yield (dividend) averaged about 6% and 10 year average return per year was 9.5%. Templeton Bond Fund is another that pays a yield of close to 6% and has average annual return of 11% for last 10 years. Vanguard Dividend Growith is another. Dividend is 2% but 10 year average annual return is 9%. There are many more funds with track records, dividend yield and overall returns just as good. So individual stocks, mutual funds, or other, there are many investment options that over time will likely pay a dividend of 3% or more and have the potential to grow in value as well. Of course, UPS has always been a good investment, though since going public it has more or less only been a good dividend play as the 10 year growth since going public has been tepid. Growth in earnings will drive the stock price.
Another way to capture a good dividend is with a mutual like like Franklin Income, a fund that holds bonds, high dividend stocks, preferred stocks, etc. Over last 10 years the yield (dividend) averaged about 6% and 10 year average return per year was 9.5%. Templeton Bond Fund is another that pays a yield of close to 6% and has average annual return of 11% for last 10 years. Vanguard Dividend Growith is another. Dividend is 2% but 10 year average annual return is 9%. There are many more funds with track records, dividend yield and overall returns just as good. So individual stocks, mutual funds, or other, there are many investment options that over time will likely pay a dividend of 3% or more and have the potential to grow in value as well. Of course, UPS has always been a good investment, though since going public it has more or less only been a good dividend play as the 10 year growth since going public has been tepid. Growth in earnings will drive the stock price.
SignificantOwner
A Package Center Manager
There's more to life than math pman.
SignificantOwner
A Package Center Manager
Stressful? Sure, but there are many very stressful jobs.
Thankless? I don't agree. Nothing says thanks like 7 digits.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
7 digits?
I've never heard of a Level 20 or 22 making this in one year with all their compensation.
pretzel_man
Well-Known Member
This is true, but math is also a part of life.
Few can get by without using it.
moreluck
golden ticket member
the government gets by without using it.
SignificantOwner
A Package Center Manager
Here is some math for you. The get it done mentality of the front line is inversely proportionate to the variance between the grade 20+ pay increases and the <20 pay increases. I see it every day.
pretzel_man
Well-Known Member
So, you think that there is a different merit pool for <20 and 20+ ??
That is untrue.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
When you say merit pool, you are not including the $250,000 annual bonus that Level 20's are "eligible" for?
This was what the Level 18's were told in Corporate back in circa 2007 or 2008 (really unsure about the year).
Not sure what merit pool means so I am fishing (pun intended) to some extent.
