Buyout in 2013

[curiousbrain]

This thread is fantastic. I have always wondered about some of these things, and never really found a time or place to ask them.

There should be an "Ask an (ex?)partner" thread, where people who've been around the block several dozen times over can offer their insights as to why things are the way they are. I mean, in essence, I suppose that's the point of the entire Partners forum ... but, still. That thread should exist.

 

[hangin455]

Hoax,

I don't think discussing this creates any negative undertones. I think an open honest discussion is worthwhile.

I do think that many on this board don't care about an open conversation and I did not intend to lump everyone together.

There are many that post a question, but don't really want an answer. They have opinions that will remain unchanged by any facts. I know you are not one of them.

Back to the topic.....

In the old days when we had large growth and large growth in stock, the amount of stock one got determined their compensation.... Not because of the actual amount, but because that amount will grow. Do you remember all the years when you couldn't buy stock at all?

Now, without that those people need to get compensated closer to the marketplace. Like it or not, this is how the world works.

Also, keep in mind the % of salary for those people that is incentive based vs. guaranteed. I think a grade 20 has about 2/3 of compensation as incentives. It goes up from there. I think Davis has 85% of compensation as incentive.....

There is no doubt that UPS is a different company than when you and I started. For better or worse, that same old company would not have survived. It had to change with the world economy, with competition, with technology, etc.

Just finished working 6 day weeks for the last 5 weeks. I really doubt that that is the industry average. Drivers, Supervisors and Managers made more at UPS because the demands and expectations were much higher. Ask any front line management how many FT supervisor candidates they have these days.
If anything technology has made front line management more difficult as they are expected to track everything under the sun and spout answers at a moments notice. You could easily work 24 hours a day trying access and understand every report available.

 

[SignificantOwner]

This was explained in the aforementioned 2007-2008 meeting/presentation to the Level 18's in Corporate.

The gist was, "work hard and smart and be effective and "this" could be yours too!"

But pman just told us that the 20+ jobs were such a small number of ups jobs that they're not worth discussing or paying attention to. They're insignificant, smaller than small, like one grain of sand on a whole beach. It seems that there are far more talented individuals than there are high paying jobs. The statement "this could be yours too" might as well end with "if you win the job lottery" rather than "if you work hard."

 

[Karma...]

Dividends are a poor replacement for stock growth. Lets face it...UPS is seen as a union ( teamster ) company and stock. Union controlled companies stocks dont do well so they pay dividends. The impending contract will be interesting for a variety of reasons.

 

[pretzel_man]

But pman just told us that the 20+ jobs were such a small number of ups jobs that they're not worth discussing or paying attention to. They're insignificant, smaller than small, like one grain of sand on a whole beach. It seems that there are far more talented individuals than there are high paying jobs. The statement "this could be yours too" might as well end with "if you win the job lottery" rather than "if you work hard."

And I stand by my statement.....

 

[pretzel_man]

When I say variance in pay increases I'm referring to the variance in the total compensation of the two groups. It was poorly worded on my part. Here's more math to clarify my observation on executive compensation over the past 10 years:

Stagnant stock price = robust compensation growth for the 20+ group.

Stagnant stock price = stagnant compensation growth for the <20 group.

Growth in stock price = huge compensation increase for 20+ **

Growth in stock price = some compensation increase for <20 **

** speculation only, no historical data to review.

Not sure I understand your definition of compensation growth. Grade 20+ don't get any growth in compensation beyond others.

If by growth you mean that they can expect to make much more than a center manager.... Yes, of course.

What does the top 1/10 of 1% of employees in other companies make?

 

[pretzel_man]

Just finished working 6 day weeks for the last 5 weeks. I really doubt that that is the industry average. Drivers, Supervisors and Managers made more at UPS because the demands and expectations were much higher. Ask any front line management how many FT supervisor candidates they have these days.
If anything technology has made front line management more difficult as they are expected to track everything under the sun and spout answers at a moments notice. You could easily work 24 hours a day trying access and understand every report available.

In the old days, we spent that time manually gathering the data. We were still expected to know everything, but we had to go to file cabinets to get the info.

 

[Karma...]

One not so distant challenge will be when the present defined pension management people retire and the non-defined pension management people take their place. That entire transition will be very interesting.

 

[SignificantOwner]

Not sure I understand your definition of compensation growth. Grade 20+ don't get any growth in compensation beyond others.

I see I'm going to have to keep this simple. Click on the following link and look at the thick side by side bars. Notice how the bars on the right side are taller than the bars on the left side. Let me know when you've completed that step and then we'll move on to the next step.

UPS United Parcel Service Inc (UPS) Class B Executive Compensation

 

[Catatonic]

One not so distant challenge will be when the present defined pension management people retire and the non-defined pension management people take their place. That entire transition will be very interesting.

The Wall St Analysts will be happier for one.
Turnover will increase if all else remains the same.

 

[Anonymous 10]

The Wall St Analysts will be happier for one.
Turnover will increase if all else remains the same.

You up???

 

[SignificantOwner]

The Wall St Analysts will be happier for one.
Turnover will increase if all else remains the same.

Turnover appears to be the goal.

 

[pretzel_man]

I see I'm going to have to keep this simple. Click on the following link and look at the thick side by side bars. Notice how the bars on the right side are taller than the bars on the left side. Let me know when you've completed that step and then we'll move on to the next step.

UPS United Parcel Service Inc (UPS) Class B Executive Compensation

You are speaking now about the top 11 people in the company?

What is the point?

What do the top 11 people in other fortune 50 companies make?

Lets go back to the math...

If those people made ZERO, the remaining management people could get $70 per month.

Not that everyone wouldn't want $70 / month, but as I said.... Its not significant.

 

[SignificantOwner]

You are speaking now about the top 11 people in the company?

What is the point?

What do the top 11 people in other fortune 50 companies make?

Lets go back to the math...

If those people made ZERO, the remaining management people could get $70 per month.

Not that everyone wouldn't want $70 / month, but as I said.... Its not significant.

I submit that the graphs for the grade 20s and higher look the same based on the compensation plan recently approved by shareholders.

 

[pretzel_man]

I submit that the graphs for the grade 20s and higher look the same based on the compensation plan recently approved by shareholders.

Grade 20 compensation has not changed since LTIP was put in place.

 

[Catatonic]

I don't think discussing these things is a negative thing and creates "undertones".
I have learned some things (not much but a little) in this thread and hopefully, others have as well.

This thread is fantastic. I have always wondered about some of these things, and never really found a time or place to ask them.

There should be an "Ask an (ex?)partner" thread, where people who've been around the block several dozen times over can offer their insights as to why things are the way they are. I mean, in essence, I suppose that's the point of the entire Partners forum ... but, still. That thread should exist.

I would like to echo BB expression on the quality of this thread.

It is thought provoking and interesting.

 

[Karma...]

The people responding in this thread seem to be experienced, intelligent UPSers who are concerned with the future of the company. Its true that the old days will not return and that what formerly attracted and held us together has changed ( many will say compromised ) . I dont feel that any of us want to lose any more of the glue ( culture ) that bonded us together as in the days when we were public. The major challenge of United Parcel Service is going public and changing both the name (UPS) and the emblem and keeping the culture going. UPS going public was one decision while changing our name and emblem was a mistake because it fractured the continuity of the company. The Tied Parcel with the name United Parcel Service stood for long time quality sevice. The jury ( customers ) is still out on the new name and emblem. I rest my case until my next posting . Semper Fi

 

[jackbauer]

No way there is a buyout. Way too many open management positions in package as it stands. If they did anything at all, I would expect the company to raise the retirement age. It's not like Scott Davis will be affected. He's going to take his money and run, probably looking to reduce our MIP factor one more time before he goes. Hope the next guy has actual "UPS blood". HIRE FROM WITHIN!

 

[SignificantOwner]

Grade 20 compensation has not changed since LTIP was put in place.

LTIP is what started their upward climb. It was put in place to accelerate the compensation of the 20+ group (and highly accelerate it for the top few executives in this group). I know all of that.

I question the philosophy that says the company will be more successful when the top few are paid much more and the rest of us less. I see the result in the day to day decision making of my peers. Easy wins out these days.

Since you brought up LTIP, isn't it the height of hypocrisy that these awards vest after three years instead of five? If five is a good number then let's make the number five.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

we have telematics why do we need a boss?