Civil War II: How Do You Want It To End?

[Thebrownblob]

10% cut in your monthly benefits? Remember when DeSantis was in Congress and he proposed a flat federal income tax with no standard deduction or dependency exemption so a guy making 20K a year would pay the same percentage tax rate as a guy making 20 million?

That sounds pretty fair to me. What reason would I want to punish earners?

 

[Thebrownblob]

Bush had the idea of privatizing Social Security and I told you the 3 reasons why it went nowhere.

It went nowhere, because Bush never planned to do it. He’s a politician, and was talking out of his ass.

 

[Brown Down]

10% cut in your monthly benefits? Remember when DeSantis was in Congress and he proposed a flat federal income tax with no standard deduction or dependency exemption so a guy making 20K a year would pay the same percentage tax rate as a guy making 20 million?

Wouldn't that be the fair way though? Everyone screams fair share but is it really fair you have some that pay 0 and others that pay crazy percentages?. Fair would absolutely be a flat rate percentage.

 

[Thebrownblob]

Wouldn't that be the fair way though? Everyone screams fair share but is it really fair you have some that pay 0 and others that pay crazy percentages?. Fair would absolutely be a flat rate percentage.

people like @bacha29 do not want fair they want to penalize, envy, and jealousy are real they also enjoy making special rules for their friends, so they have tax loops.

If you got rid of the tax loops and had an across-the-board flat fair tax that everyone had to pay, it would be much more appropriate

 

[Brown Down]

people like @bacha29 do not want fair they want to penalize, envy, and jealousy are real they also enjoy making special rules for their friends, so they have tax loops.

If you got rid of the tax loops and had an across-the-board flat fair tax that everyone had to pay, it would be much more appropriate

I know. And I agree. X percent no deductions, no loopholes. Everyone pays their fair share. It shouldn't be thet hard

 

[vantexan]

10% cut in your monthly benefits? Remember when DeSantis was in Congress and he proposed a flat federal income tax with no standard deduction or dependency exemption so a guy making 20K a year would pay the same percentage tax rate as a guy making 20 million?

He was in favor of the Fair Tax which is essentially a VAT.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

Can I conclude that you will not be signing up for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment compensation

Not signing up is not an option, it comes directly from your paycheck.

Hope this helps you my friend.

 

[Thebrownblob]

It's working? High inflation and almost tripling the amount needed to service the debt suggests cracks are forming in the dam.

This is the cycle rinse and repeat. When you can print money and control much of the worlds finance you can stretch this out a very long time, clearly.

If this was your budget or my budget, we would’ve already folded along time ago. Imagine the idea that the way out of your debt problem is to create more debt, apply to your budget at home….

If you read between the lines of what I was saying, I didn’t say it’s actually going to work. I said it’s working now. at least at the surface what’s bubbling underneath who knows but it can’t be good.

 

[newolddude]

I know. And I agree. X percent no deductions, no loopholes. Everyone pays their fair share. It shouldn't be thet hard

I agree

But then it means the rich pay more. How will things trickle down from job creators/business owners?

 

[Brown Down]

I agree

But then it means the rich pay more. How will things trickle down from job creators/business owners

ok I'll go one better. quit bailing out businesses. nobody is too big to fail. You don't want to go under? reinvest, pay decent, etc or get left behind. Trickle down works in theory but like most things real life is different. But with a flat rate tax more business owners and corporations would be more incentivised to invest rather than pocket the money as they do now.

 

[sailfish]

Can I conclude that you will not be signing up for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment compensation, oh and BTW did you send your COVID relief check back? Is that what you're telling me? That you will be standing on your political principles however painful they may be? That the ravages of disease, ageing and outdated job skills will never get in the way of your ability to work and earn a living?

Yes, stable genius. I will collect what was already stolen from me. My COVID relief check was piss compared to what they took in taxes from me that year.

 

[Thebrownblob]

Yes, stable genius. I will collect what was already stolen from me. My COVID relief check was piss compared to what they took in taxes from me that year.

Imagine a forced retirement investment account with pitiful returns or long-term healthcare plan with tons of hoops to jump through that threatens you with nonpayment or to reduce payments, or to increases the age you can use it, all the while giving it away to people who do nothing to pay for it while you bust your butt for the 30 or 50 years prior to you using it!
L O L what a great deal

 

[vantexan]

This is the cycle rinse and repeat. When you can print money and control much of the worlds finance you can stretch this out a very long time, clearly.

If this was your budget or my budget, we would’ve already folded along time ago. Imagine the idea that the way out of your debt problem is to create more debt, apply to your budget at home….

If you read between the lines of what I was saying, I didn’t say it’s actually going to work. I said it’s working now. at least at the surface what’s bubbling underneath who knows but it can’t be good.

Just a matter of time. And because they've been drawing things out since 2008 we're likely to get hammered a lot worse than if they had let things run their course.

 

[bacha29]

Wouldn't that be the fair way though? Everyone screams fair share but is it really fair you have some that pay 0 and others that pay crazy percentages?. Fair would absolutely be a flat rate percentage.

Right now under current law there is an estimated 500 billion dollars of federal income tax owed but yet to be collected because the IRS does not have the budget or the manpower to audit complex returns including those who have cash stuffed in tax haven countries like the Cayman islands.
For people like you and me who are subject to payroll withholding, backup withholding and estimated taxes there is no escaping it. However for people who have the advantage of things like carried interest, capital loss carryover, NOL, S-Corps. deferred compensation off shore bank accounts etc, the result is often little to no tax liability or if there is one collection and enforcement is difficult if not impossible.
Again you and I being subject to withholding along with the IRS favorite tool that being the correspondence audit and it's power and ease of collection where for others not subjected to withholding it's like getting blood from a rock.....now that's the unfair part. If fact I've got sitting right here in front of me my 2023 ES40 and the check that goes with it to be mailed out tomorrow.
.

 

[bacha29]

Imagine a forced retirement investment account with pitiful returns or long-term healthcare plan with tons of hoops to jump through that threatens you with nonpayment or to reduce payments, or to increases the age you can use it, all the while giving it away to people who do nothing to pay for it while you bust your butt for the 30 or 50 years prior to you using it!
L O L what a great deal

Here are the 3 reasons why the Bush plan to privatize Social Security went nowhere.
1. Transition costs.....2 trillion.
2. Banks. The banks made it clear that they would charge service and management fess on small accounts because of the number
of people who are not by nature savers and would be drawing the money back out as fast as they put it in.
3. Bush recession. Many Americans learned an unpleasant lesson when they discovered that FICA payroll retirement contributions
are the only retirement contributions that are federally insured.

So if you've got a plan that solves the problems the Bush plan didn't you would earn the nation's undivided attention.

 

[sailfish]

Imagine a forced retirement investment account with pitiful returns or long-term healthcare plan with tons of hoops to jump through that threatens you with nonpayment or to reduce payments, or to increases the age you can use it, all the while giving it away to people who do nothing to pay for it while you bust your butt for the 30 or 50 years prior to you using it!
L O L what a great deal

He makes that ty argument every time and thinks it's such a "gotcha".

 

[vantexan]

Right now under current law there is an estimated 500 billion dollars of federal income tax owed but yet to be collected because the IRS does not have the budget or the manpower to audit complex returns including those who have cash stuffed in tax haven countries like the Cayman islands.
For people like you and me who are subject to payroll withholding, backup withholding and estimated taxes there is no escaping it. However for people who have the advantage of things like carried interest, capital loss carryover, NOL, S-Corps. deferred compensation off shore bank accounts etc, the result is often little to no tax liability or if there is one collection and enforcement is difficult if not impossible.
Again you and I being subject to withholding along with the IRS favorite tool that being the correspondence audit and it's power and ease of collection where for others not subjected to withholding it's like getting blood from a rock.....now that's the unfair part. If fact I've got sitting right here in front of me my 2023 ES40 and the check that goes with it to be mailed out tomorrow.
.

So replace the ridiculous tax code with a VAT, Fair Tax, or consumption tax. Let people keep their money and spend it on what they want while also paying taxes with their purchases.

 

[Thebrownblob]

Here are the 3 reasons why the Bush plan to privatize Social Security went nowhere.
1. Transition costs.....2 trillion.
2. Banks. The banks made it clear that they would charge service and management fess on small accounts because of the number
of people who are not by nature savers and would be drawing the money back out as fast as they put it in.
3. Bush recession. Many Americans learned an unpleasant lesson when they discovered that FICA payroll retirement contributions
are the only retirement contributions that are federally insured.

So if you've got a plan that solves the problems the Bush plan didn't you would earn the nation's undivided attention.

Oh my goodness did you just make a great argument why we should’ve never gotten into this mess? Sounds like FDR screwed us.

 

[bacha29]

So replace the ridiculous tax code with a VAT, Fair Tax, or consumption tax. Let people keep their money and spend it on what they want while also paying taxes with their purchases.

A VAT with a large enough percentage to cover mandated services.....you wouldn't have any money left to spend.
A VAT would discourage consumption and this economy is driven by consumption and the ability of poor people to get credit.

 

[Brown Down]

Here are the 3 reasons why the Bush plan to privatize Social Security went nowhere.
1. Transition costs.....2 trillion.
2. Banks. The banks made it clear that they would charge service and management fess on small accounts because of the number
of people who are not by nature savers and would be drawing the money back out as fast as they put it in.
3. Bush recession. Many Americans learned an unpleasant lesson when they discovered that FICA payroll retirement contributions
are the only retirement contributions that are federally insured.

So if you've got a plan that solves the problems the Bush plan didn't you would earn the nation's undivided attention.

So replace the ridiculous tax code with a VAT, Fair Tax, or consumption tax. Let people keep their money and spend it on what they want while also paying taxes with their purchases.

What van said is what I was saying. Get rid of the absolute mess of tax codes we have now. It's beyond convoluted. I know I've had a small business, my dad did as well and I have a ton of friends who do as well. I've both done and see how stupid it is.

Simple is better. Straight percent individual and business. Why make it more difficult.