Contract news?

[Cole]

Well if everything was loaded perfectly you wouldn't be in there long, but you always have to look for pkgs, and in the back of the truck much longer than any 12 secs. Ask the FedEx drivers how they deal with getting in and out of an ac truck in the heat!

As for ac I have brought it up to every ba and at every contract proposal talks I have been involved in.

You're right I don't know why we lost Dell, but I didn't make a blanket statement, I said "could be why".

Dell is only a small example, how about Washington Mutual? What if the customers saw how these old ragedy trucks leak water like they do?

To be honest the post I made that you replied to I have to admit for the first time in a long time me and my wife went out to eat and I had quite alot of wine, and I never drink. People kept giving us/me wine to try, anyhow that post was the result, and another one somewhere. I should have been in bed. I was with another UPSer and we were discussing the heat and the leaking trucks most of the night etc... So there you have it..guilty as charged!
LOL Today is just a reminder why I don't drink! The post wasn't as bad as I feared, a little brutal to mangmnt though.

It's been exceptionally hot lately and tempers get heated this time of year.

 

[westsideworma]

Well if everything was loaded perfectly you wouldn't be in there long, but you always have to look for pkgs, and in the back of the truck much longer than any 12 secs. Ask the Fed

yeah believe me I try to load it as close as I can, but when they cut routes (which is everyday it seems) and add extra stuff near the end of the day its next to impossible to keep it 100 percent. Not to mention the sheer size of some of the stuff you guys get on your trucks...sucks, I give you drivers all the respect in the world putting up with it.

 

[Cole]

I know West, and I wasn't altogether blaming pters, as I know they make last minute cuts, and this pas system makes it much more confusing to find pkgs in a hurry. You folks have plenty to deal with as well no doubt. We just keep going striving for better days!

 

[browniehound]

Cole, I was joking about the 12 seconds. Apparently my sarcasim was not evident. It was a stab at UPS for expecting us to select a package in 12.5 seconds when out loads are horrible at best.

 

[rebel]

Cole, I liked it. Keep on drinking.

 

[Cezanne]

Consider the companies proposals according to the last TDU reports, what does it point to? Here is my scoop: The full time progression is for the new package car drivers that will be needed if and I mean If they set a good 25 year and out pension formula. Why create more combo positions when so many other full time positions will be open again if they successfully negotiated a reasonable retirement. Just imagine the openings in the package and feeder operations, most departments will lose 30 percent of their drivers. If the company wants package care helpers and air drivers to help eliminate overtime compensation and have the drivers get home at a reasonable time is that so bad? Consider the only reason that the teamsters fought for these full time jobs was to add addtional funds to it's shruggling penson and health and welfare plan. If the company withdraws from the central states fund and creates another benefit plan with teamster involvement why would there be an need for the new contributions. The guaranteed 3.5 hours for part timers would be reduced mainly for delivering ground packages, would imagine that a reasonable starting pay rate would be part of the package, considering that it is bordering on the federal minimun wage rate.

Really look at these so-called concessions again and see where this is heading for. This pension issue is basically already settled, the teamsters cannot stop UPS from paying the withdraw liability and forming it's own. The TDU dogma is just hoffa bashing with their own agenda, face it the last two contracts were rush jobs, so many loopholes and no solutions to the members needs. Maybe the buck has finally stopped and both parties can work this out, if not the feds are not too far away to impose their will and I guarantee you that will not be pretty.

 

[Cole]

Browniehound,
I apologize for not recognizing your sarcazim, may be due to being hung over. Good points Cezanne!

Rebel..LOL

 

[Fredless]

Just curious, what will the Government do in a strike situation?

 

[Cezanne]

Will not be a strike situation, I am referring to the new pension reform act. The devil is in the details, start studying the provisions of the federal act and see how both the company and union will find it more conclusive to settle the underfunding with this contract then to have the red line provision with all it's penalities rammed down their throats. If that happens all bets are off. If you think that the feds will have the teamsters' defaulted multi-pension plans thrown into the governmental penson protection insurance without making sure all measures are exhausted. Every financial asset with all parties will be affected before that happens, no more golden parachutes for the status quo anymore as it has been done in the past. You start paying for your people who made you successful over the years not just the selected few to were given more opportunity to control the funds and play the game. "Share the Pain"

 

[browniehound]

Browniehound,
I apologize for not recognizing your sarcazim, may be due to being hung over. Good points Cezanne!

Rebel..LOL

Cole,
You don't need to apologize to me for being hung-over. I know the feeling all too well, my friend!

 

[Bill]

Bargaining Stalls on Contract Language Improvements

UPS Demands Givebacks; Will IBT Settle Short?Bargaining on language issues has virtually stalled since UPS introduced its pension proposal last month.

On top of proposing to break up the Central States Fund, the company has demanded concessions.

The giveback demands include:

♦ lengthening the progression to four years;
♦ putting helpers on package cars year-round;
♦ reducing the part-time guarantee to three hours;
♦ giving management unlimited ability to assign ground deliveries to air drivers.

These are obvious deal-breakers. The danger is that our negotiators will pull critical language proposals off the table in exchange for getting UPS to withdraw its throwaway demands.

UPS’s record profits of more than $4.2 billion means that the company can afford to put more money on the table than ever before. But we learned last time that money doesn’t make the “Best Contract Ever.”

In 2002, Hoffa pointed to the money in the contract—nearly $10 billion—to sell the agreement. Five years later, we’re seeing new danger signs that our union may settle short on key language issues.

Whether this is true or not I don't know, but if it is....scary. I will vote no for sure. Comments? 1

As far as concessions go, is it true or not true that if UPS has control of the pension in Central states, will our social security benefits be deducted from our pension. In other words, if we receive a $3000 pension, and our social security benefit is $1500 per month, then will UPS only give us $3000-$1500=$1500 per month. Every year after that , if our SS benefit goes up, our contribution from UPS will go down. $3000 will be worth less and less each year as the cost of living goes up. That is what UPS proposed back in 1997.
After working 30 years or however many years one chooses to work, they should receive the full amount of the pension. This should be separate from the government's SS check. The ideal solution is for an independent entity (neither UPS or the Teamsters) to control our pension. As I have stated in earlier posts, the reasons are clear. The Teamsters are currently taking $120,000,000 per year in administration fees from our pension (this number can be found in the 5500 annual report). In 2005, an additional $61,434,532 were taken out of our health and welfare benefits for administration fees (schedule H, line i4). This report classifies this as other administration fees, without giving a breakdown on what it is used for. Just a thought, but do you think that the Teamsters have their hands in this fund too?

 

[705red]

Consider the companies proposals according to the last TDU reports, what does it point to? Here is my scoop: The full time progression is for the new package car drivers that will be needed if and I mean If they set a good 25 year and out pension formula. Why create more combo positions when so many other full time positions will be open again if they successfully negotiated a reasonable retirement. Just imagine the openings in the package and feeder operations, most departments will lose 30 percent of their drivers. If the company wants package care helpers and air drivers to help eliminate overtime compensation and have the drivers get home at a reasonable time is that so bad?

Are you kidding me? The only reason the company is offering this is because they will not be replacing those drivers with package car drivers or ftime feeders. They will be using a part time work force at part time wages!

Consider the only reason that the teamsters fought for these full time jobs was to add addtional funds to it's shruggling penson and health and welfare plan. If the company withdraws from the central states fund and creates another benefit plan with teamster involvement why would there be an need for the new contributions.

You believe that? The teamsters created those jobs because for years we cried about more fulltime jobs, we all wanted a good paying job to support our families instead of working 2 and 3 jobs to get by. On the pension issue why wouldnt the company contribute? In order for us to retire someone has to pay the contributions in our name to the fund, where else would the money come from?

The guaranteed 3.5 hours for part timers would be reduced mainly for delivering ground packages, would imagine that a reasonable starting pay rate would be part of the package, considering that it is bordering on the federal minimun wage rate.

To what $11, $12, $13 an hour instead of paying package car rate at $27 an hour, who wins with this? Not us the members the answer would be ups!

Really look at these so-called concessions again and see where this is heading for. This pension issue is basically already settled, the teamsters cannot stop UPS from paying the withdraw liability and forming it's own. The TDU dogma is just hoffa bashing with their own agenda, face it the last two contracts were rush jobs, so many loopholes and no solutions to the members needs. Maybe the buck has finally stopped and both parties can work this out, if not the feds are not too far away to impose their will and I guarantee you that will not be pretty.

The feds have been dealing with the cs plan cince roughly 1989, so believe it there already there. Outside the cs plan what part of the contract do you believe was rushed? The economical issues, of free medical? $5 dollar prescriptions? Over $6 in raises over 6 years? Your right this contract sucks in some aspects, but overall its a pretty good contract!

 

[705red]

At my local monthly meeting our sec/tres spoke on alot of these issues since he was asked to be on the negoiating commitee. It looks like a thursday deadline for the cs pension buy out is on the table, but he stated if ups wants this they will have to pay for it without receiving any of these concessions that they are asking for. It appears that it could hurt some economical issues for the upcoming contract, Pay raises benefits for example. To my understanding if this cs buyout happens it must also come with a clause stating that ups will not attempt to buyout the other pension plans that we belong to. If i heard it correct theres 21 different pension plans across the country. Alot of people were split on this issue today and we debated it for about 2 hours after, and now listening to both sides of the story im not 100% against it like i have been. This will be up to those of you that are in that plan, and i believe we in 705 have about 40 members who transfered in under that plan and still belong to it. I didnt ask about the social security taking away from your monthly pensions, just could not remember all the questions. So it looks like this has a real possibility of happening and you brothers and sisters in that plan should look into it for yourselves and vote for your best interests. The rest of the countrry will be watching this and know that we will support your decisions!

 

[705red]

Consider the companies proposals according to the last TDU reports, what does it point to? Here is my scoop: The full time progression is for the new package car drivers that will be needed if and I mean If they set a good 25 year and out pension formula. Why create more combo positions when so many other full time positions will be open again if they successfully negotiated a reasonable retirement. Just imagine the openings in the package and feeder operations, most departments will lose 30 percent of their drivers. If the company wants package care helpers and air drivers to help eliminate overtime compensation and have the drivers get home at a reasonable time is that so bad? Consider the only reason that the teamsters fought for these full time jobs was to add addtional funds to it's shruggling penson and health and welfare plan. If the company withdraws from the central states fund and creates another benefit plan with teamster involvement why would there be an need for the new contributions. The guaranteed 3.5 hours for part timers would be reduced mainly for delivering ground packages, would imagine that a reasonable starting pay rate would be part of the package, considering that it is bordering on the federal minimun wage rate.

Really look at these so-called concessions again and see where this is heading for. This pension issue is basically already settled, the teamsters cannot stop UPS from paying the withdraw liability and forming it's own. The TDU dogma is just hoffa bashing with their own agenda, face it the last two contracts were rush jobs, so many loopholes and no solutions to the members needs. Maybe the buck has finally stopped and both parties can work this out, if not the feds are not too far away to impose their will and I guarantee you that will not be pretty.

hall would sell his own mother to save face for the teamsters.

Really? So you think the last 2 contracts that he got for us was selling out to ups in order to save face? I know your a little bitter because you think he received a letter from you and hes now ignoring you by not responding to you. But how does that equal hes selling out? Look cs pension is a serious situation but dont throw that blame on hall, he only negotiates the pension contributions, he does not invest them on our behalf! Now everyone here knows im not a hoffa fan, but i do have a great deal of respect for hall.

 

[wkmac]

At my local monthly meeting our sec/tres spoke on alot of these issues since he was asked to be on the negoiating commitee. It looks like a thursday deadline for the cs pension buy out is on the table, but he stated if ups wants this they will have to pay for it without receiving any of these concessions that they are asking for. It appears that it could hurt some economical issues for the upcoming contract, Pay raises benefits for example. To my understanding if this cs buyout happens it must also come with a clause stating that ups will not attempt to buyout the other pension plans that we belong to. If i heard it correct theres 21 different pension plans across the country. Alot of people were split on this issue today and we debated it for about 2 hours after, and now listening to both sides of the story im not 100% against it like i have been. This will be up to those of you that are in that plan, and i believe we in 705 have about 40 members who transfered in under that plan and still belong to it. I didnt ask about the social security taking away from your monthly pensions, just could not remember all the questions. So it looks like this has a real possibility of happening and you brothers and sisters in that plan should look into it for yourselves and vote for your best interests. The rest of the countrry will be watching this and know that we will support your decisions!

Thanks for the above info 705. As to the SS issue I'd like to just throw out 2 things to think about but before I do it consider this. Anything is possible and I mean anything. May not be likely but it's still possible.

Now on the SS isssue. Several months ago the rumor mill among management was that this was going to happen with their pension and when it was all said and done, someone just got to excited and the rumors went wild as nothing like this ever happened. After the recent Corp. buyout, just a week or so ago we see in another thread that now the big secret is the company will buy out the drivers. Talk about a bunch of BIG BS!

Until we see something in print, I consider this SS rumor in our situation as the same rumor (Corp SS/pension) having infested our side of the fence and nothing more.

Secondly and again reminding that anything is poosible but I just don't see the IBT giving into that demand because of the presedence set that could in future years come to effect other retirement funds. Also UPS is a smart company and is not goingto cut off it's nose to spite it's face if it really wants control of this part of the pension system. UPS has a lot of folks on their side right now IMO or that at least seems to be the thinking in my area (all CS controlled) so why get too greedy when (again, here's that warning "anything possible") UPS if successful in getting the CS pension could in fact make it such a shining example of a good deal and place further pressure on the IBT in the future. That is in fact one potential but nothing more than that as nothing is on paper that any of us have seen.

We both know there is nothing on paper as of yet so everything is speculation on our parts so why worry about what we don't factually know. I would think over the next few weeks we should begin to get a clearer picture of where this thing is headed.

 

[Cezanne]

705red, I am not endorsing or agreeing with the companies' proposals. Playing a devil's advocate with my feelings about this upcoming contract, particularly with this pension crisis. We are all trying to get a clue to what will be offered, going to be alot of speculation and rumors going around till it is settled.

I remember in "97" what the company offered with their best, final contract offer, still have the retirement package documentation that came to most of us in the mail. There was a vague clause about subtracting from your benefit any other contributory amount that UPS has paid for. Whether that meant social security or other teamsters' pension plans was not clearly stated. Social security offset can be done by both parties, I believe that there is nothing legally to prevent this from happening. It will be a negotiated percentage if it happens, that is why the international is looking into this so-called buy out, it will still have a voice and part control over any decisions. The "97" takeover attempt would of had the company in total control of the pension and health and welfare trusts. Consider it's track record with the part time pension benefits for those under the current central states plans and make your own decision to who you want total control of these negotiated funds.

 

[sawdusttv]

At my local monthly meeting our sec/tres spoke on alot of these issues since he was asked to be on the negoiating commitee. It looks like a thursday deadline for the cs pension buy out is on the table, but he stated if ups wants this they will have to pay for it without receiving any of these concessions that they are asking for. It appears that it could hurt some economical issues for the upcoming contract, Pay raises benefits for example. To my understanding if this cs buyout happens it must also come with a clause stating that ups will not attempt to buyout the other pension plans that we belong to. If i heard it correct theres 21 different pension plans across the country. Alot of people were split on this issue today and we debated it for about 2 hours after, and now listening to both sides of the story im not 100% against it like i have been. This will be up to those of you that are in that plan, and i believe we in 705 have about 40 members who transfered in under that plan and still belong to it. I didnt ask about the social security taking away from your monthly pensions, just could not remember all the questions. So it looks like this has a real possibility of happening and you brothers and sisters in that plan should look into it for yourselves and vote for your best interests. The rest of the countrry will be watching this and know that we will support your decisions!

THANKS RED,

You know you're alright with me!
I do have one question about the clause to not try and buy out the other plans. Is this clause a contract issue that the teamsters are asking for or is it a legal issue that UPS must agree to before the Feds will allow the buyout? My understanding is that if UPS wants to buy out of CS that they can do it without the teamsters approval. So, if it is a contract issue and not a legal one, I don't see UPS ever agreeing to that clause.

 

[trucker1946]

Their is no reason for any FULL TIME EMPOYEE to be concerned or alarmed with this upcoming contract,as you are aware part timers control the vote 3 to 1 to full timers,always was this way,always will be,think about it1

 

[mittam]

Their is no reason for any FULL TIME EMPOYEE to be concerned or alarmed with this upcoming contract,as you are aware part timers control the vote 3 to 1 to full timers,always was this way,always will be,think about it1

But. part-timers don't get out to vote as they should. If they did they may make more than $8.50 an hour starting pay. I do think the pt pay rate was between company and ibt but they need to voice their concerns and make them heard. I know some areas (namely local 957 in Dayton) don't care about the part-timers and won't let them speak but we do have a lot of other areas that they can shout out what they want and need. COME ON PART-TIMERS GET INVOLVED!!!!!!!!!

 

[trucker1946]

I agree Mike,however,all UPS has to do is to dangle a big signing bonus to part timers and the contract will fly like a soaring eagle,just my opinion,nothing personal Mike,God Bless,Dave