Don't ask --Don't tell Will never work !!!

[wkmac]

Are you Tieguy in drag? You seem to reply only to what you want to twist.

Not a waste of time at all. Pissed you off enough so that you posted this in rebuttal:
First of all, I wasn't pissed at all and I'm still not.My rebuttal was to explain what you obviously missed or ignored from my first post.



I'm betting you are in the majority too. Speaks volumes in reality!
I do believe that is what the founding fathers said repeatedly, whether it was what they meant....not so sure.

You gonna thump the bible, you might should spend more time reading it!
I'm not thumping the Bible, I was only saying where the rule on homosexuals in the military came from. (if you believe the rule to have some other source of origin, post it)

I never claimed to be an expert on ....well....anything
Not one place in my posting did I say I believed homosexuality to be wrong nor did I say that homosexuals should not be in the military.

Seems to be working too!

 

[trplnkl]

Seems to be working too!

What is working,,how? Sorry, don't understand that comment.

 

[trplnkl]

It also says "judge not lest ye be judged". Not "judge not unless the judge is a queer trying to grab your package".

Also "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

Not sure what your point is, or if it is directed at me. I didn't say homosexuality was wrong nor did I imply it was wrong. However I did infer that not all people that opposed homosexuality are (by definition) homophobes or have any inner questions of their own sexuality.
As I tried to explain to Wk, my mention of the Bible was show where the ban on homosexuals in the military came from, not that it was right to do so.

 

[cachsux]

Not sure what your point is, or if it is directed at me. I didn't say homosexuality was wrong nor did I imply it was wrong. However I did infer that not all people that opposed homosexuality are (by definition) homophobes or have any inner questions of their own sexuality.
As I tried to explain to Wk, my mention of the Bible was show where the ban on homosexuals in the military came from, not that it was right to do so.

No T, it wasn`t a shot at you but rather to point out if some are inclined to base their feelings on the bible then they should follow all of it and not pick and chose whats convenient.

 

[island1fox]

cach,
Not trying to be arguementive but I think you are missing a key point on some of the examples which then causes you to throw around the old homophobe card like people throw around the race card.
There is no doubt that there are homophobes and racists but those harsh descriptions should not be so easily thrown around.
The key point with NO JUDGING on what is right or wrong :
Straight person ----Physically attracted to members of the OPPOSITE sex
Gay person --Physically attracted to members of the SAME sex.

This is why military men do not shower or sleep with military women in the barracks.-- if that was LEGISLATED that men and women had to shower and sleep together whether they consented or not you cannot deny there would be problems --especially with the young raging hormones !!!

 

[wkmac]

What is working,,how? Sorry, don't understand that comment.

I can believe that!

 

[wkmac]

No T, it wasn`t a shot at you but rather to point out if some are inclined to base their feelings on the bible then they should follow all of it and not pick and chose whats convenient.

T,
Exactly what Cach sez is the nail on the head. You made a general observation and I made a general observation back. Had I meant it exclusively to you it would have started with,

trplnkl,

just as I responded to bbsam and maybe like him I should have told you I was using your point as a launch pad and nothing more. Sorry. Your general observation was correct but my point was when you study the specifics of the bible you can so often find what some think is the case may not be entirely. As Cach rightly points out, it's easy as hell to pick and choose in the bible what to and what not to follow.

Love the Santa photo and comment Cach. LMAO!!!!!!

Well about time to head for work.

BAH! friend'ing Humbug!


48 hours plus and then we begin the prep work for the next peak season. Don't that just make your day?
Whatever you guys do with your families over the next day or so, wishing you all the best and happy memories from it.

C YA!

 

[cachsux]

cach,
Not trying to be argumentative but I think you are missing a key point on some of the examples which then causes you to throw around the old homophone card like people throw around the race card.
There is no doubt that there are homophobes and racists but those harsh descriptions should not be so easily thrown around.
The key point with NO JUDGING on what is right or wrong :
Straight person ----Physically attracted to members of the OPPOSITE sex
Gay person --Physically attracted to members of the SAME sex.

This is why military men do not shower or sleep with military women in the barracks.-- if that was LEGISLATED that men and women had to shower and sleep together whether they consented or not you cannot deny there would be problems --especially with the young raging hormones !!!

My point is in several o your posts you state that the straight person will be the one harassed on some level by the gay. I say odds are the gay will be the victim long before the straight. Gays and straight are bunked together now,most don`t know it, but what has prevented these gays from going after all those irresistible heteros up till now? If it`s raging hormones they`ll be uncontrollable whether someone declares their preference or not.

As far as any sexual interaction, which is frowned upon at the very least in the MCC, still occurs irregardless of the fact of who`s bunked where whatever their sexual preference may be.

As far as the homophobe race card, why is it always the straights worrying about what the gays might do and not the other way around? The gays might gawk at me, flirt with me, touch me,etc? I`m so irresistible those darn queers can`t keep their hands off! Oh God, if a gay thinks I`m gay maybe the straights will think I`m gay too! Maybe I am gay and don`t know it!?

If people are secure in their own sexuality then there`s nothing to worry about. They won`t attack you. If one should give you any attention treat them as you would someone of the opposite sex and just tell them you`re not interested. End of story.

 

[cachsux]

No T, it wasn`t a shot at you but rather to point out if some are inclined to base their feelings on the bible then they should follow all of it and not pick and chose whats convenient.

Now of my views on this subject are directed to anyone on the personal level. Sorry if it`s implied.

 

[bbsam]

cach,
Not trying to be arguementive but I think you are missing a key point on some of the examples which then causes you to throw around the old homophobe card like people throw around the race card.
There is no doubt that there are homophobes and racists but those harsh descriptions should not be so easily thrown around.
The key point with NO JUDGING on what is right or wrong :
Straight person ----Physically attracted to members of the OPPOSITE sex
Gay person --Physically attracted to members of the SAME sex.

This is why military men do not shower or sleep with military women in the barracks.-- if that was LEGISLATED that men and women had to shower and sleep together whether they consented or not you cannot deny there would be problems --especially with the young raging hormones !!!

My old raging hormones take offense. If there's one thing that hasn't changed in me from about age 12 on is the raging hormones. I keep thinking with each passing day that I'm become a dirty old(er) man and think to myself, "Does it ever go away?" Well I hope not! But raging hormones need to be held in check regardless the object. If the millitary can't instill that amount of discipline, perhaps we need new leadership in the ranks.

 

[island1fox]

bbsam,
I agree with you and the hormones --the discipline part is debatable.
Merry christmas to all and to all a good night !!!!!

 

[tieguy]

Okay. What would you rather have ?
A unknown gay guy that showers with you, or 1 that you can easily avoid having a shower with, because he came out of the closet ?

I dont remember having the luxery of choosing my shower mates or shower accomadations when playing war games. How do the canadian soldiers do it. Do they play musical showers when its time? Perhaps a shower mating process?

Your example of avoiding the shower when you know a gay guy is in it is an excellent example of the unit cohesiveness issues that have generals concerned.

 

[tieguy]

Originally Posted by trplnkl
Are you Tieguy in drag? "

wow I think someone just lost the sensitivity towards gays argument....tsk...tsk....tsk.

 

[klein]

Your example of avoiding the shower when you know a gay guy is in it is an excellent example of the unit cohesiveness issues that have generals concerned.

Not really, but it gives those people an option if they are homophobic !
I couldn't care less to shower with a gay person, as long as I'm left alone.
Others, may not be as lienient.
Up to the individual to decide.
Isn't that the way it should be ?

Btw, Tie, this is how old fashion you are :

Airbase hosts 1st military gay wedding​

Last Updated: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 | 1:43 PM ET ​

CBC News


That article is from 2005, same sex marriages have been legal all across the country since then.​

 

[cachsux]

Not really, but it gives those people an option if they are homophobic !
I couldn't care less to shower with a gay person, as long as I'm left alone.
Others, may not be as lienient.
Up to the individual to decide.
Isn't that the way it should be ?

Btw, Tie, this is how old fashion you are :

Airbase hosts 1st military gay wedding​

Last Updated: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 | 1:43 PM ET ​

CBC News ​

That article is from 2005, same sex marriages have been legal all across the country since then.​

I`ll take a thousand showers with a gay guy before I`d take one with the likes of you. At least I`d know where the guy was coming from.

 

[tieguy]

Not really, but it gives those people an option if they are homophobic !
I couldn't care less to shower with a gay person, as long as I'm left alone.
Others, may not be as lienient.
Up to the individual to decide.
Isn't that the way it should be ?

Did your liqour beffudled brain understand anything I said? Military troops working as teams moving quickly with purpose is what unit cohesiveness is all about. this includes the shower example you chose to use. In training or combat arenas troops are often moved into large open shower areas where they quickly shower and change into fresh clothes. Troops malingering outside until the gay soldiers are done showering would be an example of the cohesiveness concerns generals speak of. In the process of defending this policy you actually give a good example against it.

If this is your argument then you have the obligation of clearing your brain ( if possible) and explaining how this works without the unit losing any of its efficency.

 

[trplnkl]

Originally Posted by trplnkl
Are you Tieguy in drag? "

wow I think someone just lost the sensitivity towards gays argument....tsk...tsk....tsk.

HAHAHAHA....wasn't looking to win an argument about gay sensitivity and I don't know of anywhere that is says all men in drag are gay.

Hey? I thought you had me on ignore.

 

[trplnkl]

No T, it wasn`t a shot at you but rather to point out if some are inclined to base their feelings on the bible then they should follow all of it and not pick and chose whats convenient.

Many people choose their moral compass based on the Bible, that is not to say they are perfect in every aspect and sure not what I intended to imply. All I was trying to say is that Biblical teachings played a huge role in the decision to disallow homosexuals in the military. That does not say that is the way I think it should be. I think people would serve themselves much better if the payed no attention to another person's sexuality. As far as the homophobic theory goes, I think it is a bunch of BS, isn't that some of Freud 's theories?

 

[Babagounj]

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=243213

THE GAYING OF AMERICA

Officer won't sign order for troop indoctrination

Asks to be relieved of command over repeal of 'gay' ban in military

" My personal religious beliefs and moral convictions do not permit me to treat homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle, compatible with military service, any more than adultery, illicit drug use, or criminal activity. I believe this lifestyle runs counter to good order and discipline in military units, and I refuse to sacrifice my belief system, protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, in order to fall in line with the command policy that will logically follow."

 

[trplnkl]

I dont remember having the luxery of choosing my shower mates or shower accomadations when playing war games. How do the canadian soldiers do it. Do they play musical showers when its time? Perhaps a shower mating process?

Your example of avoiding the shower when you know a gay guy is in it is an excellent example of the unit cohesiveness issues that have generals concerned.

This may well be a big deal in the future with the repeal of the DA,DT policy. There well could be trouble over shared showers regardless of the mix. I can see possible law suits demanding Men's, women's, and homosexual's separate shower accommodations or times and separate sleeping quarters for each group, a logistical nightmare. As far as in actual battle...this probably would and dang sure shouldn't make a difference to anyone.