ethics in management

[1989]

No, the part-timers who havent been hired yet are the ones who are bringing your pension back up. UPS cut a check for $6 billion to comply with the Pension Reform Act of 2008. That 6 billion is coming from somewhere. It isnt charity, it isnt a "gift".
You have seniority, you have a pension, you have job security and bidding rights because of yor labor agreement. Ask a FedEx Ground or DHL driver about seniority or bidding rights sometime.

If ups got out in 97 they wouldn't have had to spend 6 billion, it would have been a much lower amount. Shareholders took a burden for the 6 billion. That's why this years PE is 225. Where I'm from dhl drivers are teamsters and they have a better pension than us

 

[Brown Dog]

I have found a majority of my CMs, DMs, and supes to be lacking in ethics and generally disrespectfull and unappreciative. A few(in my 28 years) have been totally upstanding and ethical. I've also found some of my hourly coworkers to be unethical, BUT, in reverse proportion. I take it all in stride. Whether or not a "boss" is ethical or not is not as importent as how I let it affect me. Do I sink to their level, or do I continue to do what I know to be true and correct. ass bosses will come and go but I have to look myself in the mirror every morning and hold ME accountable for my actions. I understand my job is to "work as directed" Sometimes I don't like or agree with the directives or who is dictating them. Doesn't matter, I accept. I also accept my pay, vacations, and pension. I'm not in Central states, but I'm glad my "brothers" in central states have their pension restored. It was the right thing to do. We are all in this together, we might as well do the best we can.

 

[705red]

Sorry to disagree with your opinion.
Carey engineered the strike, to try and combat the power struggle between himself and Hoffa.
He was up against a possible no confidence vote by the union and by an investigation by the government of trading union money to the democratic campaign for a donation to his election fund.
Ups's first offer, if taken, would have avoided the huge bale out that UPS had to supply to Central States to keep our pension solvent.
Thank you UPS, for to be willing to expense 6 billion dollars to protect my pension.
The CEO of UPS had to sign off on that amount of money.
What did the union have to sign off?
Jack, nada, nothing.
I know I am going to catch some heat for this post, but UPS saved my pension and I am grateful .

Of course you grateful to ups, thats because none of your fellow drivers will talk to you for stabbing them in the back and scabbing.

How do you screw some one that isn't hired yet?

The intent of the contract is designed for those folks who can vote at the time there is an offer.

If you hire on after the contract has been implemented you accept the terms of the contract. You are not getting screwed if you decide to work here. You make a conscience decision to accept the job. You can go elsewhere if you don't like the contract.

Lifer if every contract screwed the unborn at the time of signing none of us would be were we are at today. Its called taking a stand for the future something todays union members cant grasp. Most of todays unionized members are out for themselves and dont care about the sacrafices others have made to benefit them. Sad.

Amen the Union sold out the part-timers. It is a clear case of people thinking only of themselves.

Everyone that didnt take the time to vote sold everyone else out. If your not happy with something than vote no, but when a contract is voted on by the members and agreed to by those same members its the membership that sold out and the blame does not lie alone with the teamsters. I will agree the ptimers have been screwed in recent past contracts, in 97 they received the first starting raise in 15 years but in the last two more should have been done.

or so ron told you.

I respect the point that you're still loyal to ronnie's BS after he has been totally discredited at this time.

NOT GUILTY TIE!

Not true, there was a pension in 97 and no subcontracting in package. At least in the western confrence.

When did you start with ups? I have a feeling that you were not here than. But you find it necessary to question others who went 17 to 19 days without pay to stand up for what we believed than and what we believe now. Do you understand that you probably have your fulltime driving job because of our sacrafice? We refused to settle for less and we won tens of thousands of new jobs just from that job action. No need to thank us for it we were looking out for future ups teamsters the problem is these new upsers are only looking out for themselves. By the way im now ftime because of that strike and i will never forget the ftimers that helped us ptimers and i will never forget were i came from (ptime).

 

[705red]

If ups got out in 97 they wouldn't have had to spend 6 billion, it would have been a much lower amount. Shareholders took a burden for the 6 billion. That's why this years PE is 225. Where I'm from dhl drivers are teamsters and they have a better pension than us

I dont work for the shareholders and neither do you. What local are you in and what local does dhl belong to, we can look up the pensions to prove your statement.

I get a better pension than my fellow dhlers in local 705 so i find it hard to believe.

 

[satellitedriver]

No, the part-timers who havent been hired yet are the ones who are bringing your pension back up. UPS cut a check for $6 billion to comply with the Pension Reform Act of 2008. That 6 billion is coming from somewhere. It isnt charity, it isnt a "gift".
You have seniority, you have a pension, you have job security and bidding rights because of yor labor agreement. Ask a FedEx Ground or DHL driver about seniority or bidding rights sometime.

Huh?
I will not waste my time trying to explain how wrong you are and how little you know of the subject.
The only labor agreement I entered into was with UPS,and we have both met our agreement.
I work and they pay me.
I have worked at UPS for over 2 decades and that is how I gained seniority.
I could care less about people that haven't even been hired yet.
Please, spare me from hearing that I would not have what I have, if it wasn't for the union.
You might need the teamsters, but I do not.

 

[satellitedriver]

Of course you grateful to ups, thats because none of your fellow drivers will talk to you for stabbing them in the back and scabbing.
Red, what crystal ball you have been looking into, to see who will talk to me?
You might polish it up and look again.
You are incorrect about the way I get along with my fellow drivers.
I am grateful to UPS, for allowing me to earn a paycheck.
I was stabbed in the back in 97' and it wasn't by UPS.

 

[trplnkl]

Huh?
I will not waste my time trying to explain how wrong you are and how little you know of the subject.
The only labor agreement I entered into was with UPS,and we have both met our agreement.
I work and they pay me.
I have worked at UPS for over 2 decades and that is how I gained seniority.
I could care less about people that haven't even been hired yet.
Please, spare me from hearing that I would not have what I have, if it wasn't for the union.
You might need the teamsters, but I do not.

Having grown up it Texas (a right to work State) my first experience with unions was when I started with UPS. My first three years was as a non-union clerk working in the office, I did my job and went home. I did however keep my eyes and ears open and learned alot. I saw many good drivers get on a mangers bad side for inconsequential crap and be hounded day after day until the union would eventually step in make it stop. I saw a driver get fired for having a wreck because the brakes failed on his truck approaching an intersection, it took the union six months to get his job back because the company kept postponing the procedure. I saw many things that the company did or tried to do to drivers that just were not right and the union would fix the problem. Sat, your seniority wouldn't mean squat without the union. I was not with the company when our area went union, but I have friends that were. Bid routes were nonexistent, you ran whatever route the current center manager/FT sup wanted you to run, regardless of your years with the company. This was used as a "get even" thing and the managers (from what I have been told) used it often. It was the union that made seniority count. Anyone that believes that we would be making the kind of money and have to benefits that we have today without the help or the Teamsters are sadly fooling themselves. I am far from being a "union goon", but I sure do not have company wool over my eyes either.
On this pension buy out, there are so many different aspects to this subject I doubt anyone has all the facts, I sure don't.

 

[dannyboy]

The '97 proposal would have allowed unlimited subcontracting in packages as well as feeder. UPS would have "bought out" the pension, only to eliminate all union employees and replace them with fedex ground-style independent contractors

And we see how that business model is faring, dont we? After all, they are not independent contractors, they are employees.

Now, how do you think UPS would have sqeezed that by the IRS. Lets see. Yesterday the drivers were employees, but we fired them. Today, these guys, doing the same job, for the same company, delivering the same packages are now independent contractors. Why you ask? Because we want it that way.

Hehehe, you got a bad taste in your mouth about the strike?....you shoulda spit insteada of swallowed.

While the contract was far from perfect, the big hang up was the pension and the inside full time jobs. The teamsters need more full time jobs, not part time. The part time workforce is not a money maker for them, instead it is a money loser. So it behooves them to get as many full time jobs as they can.

Of course, implimenting the full time jobs has been something else, as the language was less than plain, and was pretty much stacked in the companies favor.

As for your worries about the yet unborn UPS employee, in 18 years the ups you see now will not even resemble what you will see then.

d

 

[Channahon]

I think we are screwing ourselves by not increasing starting wage and delaying benefits. I don't know the actual figures but many part timers don’t even last a year so this job will be much less desirable when Taco Bell pays more, offers more hours and flexible hours. Oh and you don't have to bust your butt at Taco Bell either. Personally I am not looking forward to loading 8 trucks because they couldn’t replace the guy that quit.

I'm guessing UPS is delaying benefits to part timers, for just the reason you stated. Why would UPS want to contribute to benefits for an employee group who traditionally has a high turnover rate.

You may have the occasional parent looking for part time work and benefits for their families, but the usual mix of part timers are students, or young kids taking on a first job.


Tough situations for part time employees and UPS. It's all a matter of cost and benefits expense skyrocketing over the years.

 

[UPS Lifer]

705red,

I understand what you are saying. When it comes to any vote, every person has a different reason for voting the way they do. The vote may be complex because the issues are complex. I respect your decision to take a stand and vote for a future employee or protection from erosion of or loss of wages-working conditions-benefits during some future contract.

This does not change what I said, if you decide to come work at UPS after a contract has been resolved you make a conscious decision to accept the conditions of the current contract.

As you know, when parties don't agree on something they compromise to move forward. If all they do is whine, complain or bicker (both sides) nothing is going to change and in fact will probably get worse or deteriorate.

Any contract is a compromise of the two parties. Nobody is going to be happy with every part of the contract and in some cases there will be those that are not happy with any of it.

Both sides try to understand what changes are most important for the other side to accept the agreement and work to resolve those differences to provide a satisfactory solution that will be beneficial to both sides.

Generally - folks that are unborn don't have a strong bargaining position.

There will come a time that the company will have to raise starting wages and provide a more attractive package for new hires but that time will not come until the company sees "the numbers" and can justify the monies allocated.

When the time does come, the current employees will sacrifice some future benefit to make it a reality. There is a balance between the cost of a contract and the company's future. If the balance changes the wrong direction and the health of the company deteriorates you will suffer as well.

I know you know this and I do admire your ideals to help future employees but at what cost?

 

[Channahon]

Sober,

Just wondering, what was the source of your information? Never heard this before, during or after the strike.

The '97 proposal would have allowed unlimited subcontracting in packages as well as feeder. UPS would have "bought out" the pension, only to eliminate all union employees and replace them with fedex ground-style independent contractors with no pensions at all.

Thanks, Chan

 

[dannyboy]

Chan

I heard the same BS from some of the union officials.

While UPS would love to rid itself of the high paid drivers, there are many better ways of doing it than declare them all independent contractors.

d

 

[satellitedriver]

It was the union that made seniority count. Anyone that believes that we would be making the kind of money and have to benefits that we have today without the help or the Teamsters are sadly fooling themselves. I am far from being a "union goon", but I sure do not have company wool over my eyes either.

Doing what we do, I have to agree that we would not make the money that we do.
Where does this money come from?
Mainly, non-union workers.
All the unions in America represent only 8 to 10% of the working class.
The teamsters are only a percentage of that 10%.
In my post I ended with saying, you might need the teamsters, I do not.
What I need is customers to deliver to.
While I drive my pkg car in my uniform, made by non-union workers,delivering non-union made products, to people who are non-union,directed by non-union management, I can easily say that I do not need the teamsters.
I could make far more money than I make at UPS, but, I will not make the trade off of leaving my land and my home.
My choice, my life.
I will not wear the teamster collar.

 

[705red]

Doing what we do, I have to agree that we would not make the money that we do.
Where does this money come from?
Mainly, non-union workers.
All the unions in America represent only 8 to 10% of the working class.
The teamsters are only a percentage of that 10%.
In my post I ended with saying, you might need the teamsters, I do not.
What I need is customers to deliver to.
While I drive my pkg car in my uniform, made by non-union workers,delivering non-union made products, to people who are non-union,directed by non-union management, I can easily say that I do not need the teamsters.
I could make far more money than I make at UPS, but, I will not make the trade off of leaving my land and my home.
My choice, my life.
I will not wear the teamster collar.

You have your land and your house because of the teamster negioated contract that was bargained on all of our behalf. You are out for only yourself and thats fine, as a steward i have to defend your rights under the contract but as a fellow man i would walk over your dying body if you laid in the street in front of me. I mean that whole heartly!

 

[govols019]

If you were terminated by UPS for what you felt were unwarranted reasons would you employ Teamster representation or just leave?

 

[1989]

I dont work for the shareholders and neither do you. What local are you in and what local does dhl belong to, we can look up the pensions to prove your statement.

I get a better pension than my fellow dhlers in local 705 so i find it hard to believe.

I was in 174 for 13 years (between 1989 and 2006)red...I walked the picket line and got my $300 a week strike from our srike fund...Funny thing is, that $300 was almost what I was making driving at the time.

 

[satellitedriver]

You have your land and your house because of the teamster negioated contract that was bargained on all of our behalf. You are out for only yourself and thats fine, as a steward i have to defend your rights under the contract but as a fellow man i would walk over your dying body if you laid in the street in front of me. I mean that whole heartly!

Red,
I paid for my land before I worked at UPS.
I designed and built my home.
Drove nails, laid tile, moved dirt and what ever else it took, until 2:00am and got up at 5:45 am, to drive a 110 mile commute to work a full day at UPS.
I never missed a work day in 21 1/2 yrs.
Can you say the same?(nope)
Your contract had Jack to do with my land and home.

So, if you think you can punk me with your rhetoric about walking over me, then you better be very tall, because I am still standing.
I would never ask, or depend on, someone like you to defend me.
You have never stood on your own two feet earning a living without a union to keep you propped up.
I have.
My work record at UPS is my defense, if that isn't good enough, I will move along with no regrets.
In closing,
If you see me dying on the street, Red, I would advise you to stay away from me as far as possible.
Never know what one will do in dying tremors.

 

[satellitedriver]

If you were terminated by UPS for what you felt were unwarranted reasons would you employ Teamster representation or just leave?

I would mount my own defense without the unions help.
There are other legal avenues.

 

[soberups]

I would never ask, or depend on, someone like you to defend me.
You have never stood on your own two feet earning a living without a union to keep you propped up.
I have.
My work record at UPS is my defense, if that isn't good enough, I will move along with no regrets.
.

I have no doubt that you are a man of many skills, and could probably earn a good living elswhere.
Your work record may indeed be admirable, but it has nothing at all to do with the wages, benefits and seniority you have. Those are all defined in the collective bargaining agreement.
The people who proclaim that "the union does nothing for me" conveniently overlook the fact that union-negotiated wages and benefits are the reason they sought employment at UPS to begin with.
If you feel I am wrong, then try this simple test; go down to the local DHL of FedEx hub, apply for a job, and tell them that you feel you should make a full UPS wage simply because of your "work record". Let us know how it goes....

 

[soberups]

I would mount my own defense without the unions help.
There are other legal avenues.

The company has unlimited resources to hire attorneys. You, on the other hand, don't....especially when you have been terminated.
For that matter, a non-union company doesnt have to fire you, they can just lay you off indefinately. "Seniority" is a contractually negotiated benefit, not a legal right.