You took the easy way out! What would have happened if you had pushed the issue?
Feeder Pre-Trip Inspections
- Thread starter Dracula
- Start date
bluehdmc
Well-Known Member
If both trailers were 100% you could have left with the set, then complained on the road it didn't handle correctly and run them around. Unless you know the weights of the trailers, (where I am we go by volume, but 50% of nuts and bolts is gonna weigh more than 100% or styrofoam peanuts), you could have the heavier trailer in the rear. I've had it happen to me, both trailers 100%, the rear swayed all over the road, felt like the snubber wasn't engaged, (it was). I stopped in rest area and switched them and they rode nice and smooth. The contract says "if the driver feels the unit doesn't handle right, he/she may contact management and will be authorized to switch the unit and be paid for such time". Article 18, section 7.
They are correct saying it's not a requirement but there are ways to get around it.
twoweeled
Well-Known Member
I understand what you mean, but! Push the issue as in refusing to go home, and refusing to take it with the snubber not working? I'm not sure how much you've ever pushed the issue, but the way it's working now, is; I'm directing you to take it! I refuse! I get walked out. how do you see it working out in your scenario?? I really am curious.
twoweeled
Well-Known Member
Mmmm, this one is interesting. Wasn't aware of this one. I really don't see much difference in my asking for authorization there in the yard (to switch trailers), or out on the road. If I felt unsafe having the gear slamming into the pintle hook over and over again should have been enough. The set is obviously not going to handle the same. It also says "will be authorized to switch the unit". Article 18/7 is good to know! Thanks
W
want to retire
Guest
The difference is that you are working as we were taught. The OP is doing something on a completetly different level. I have never seen ANYONE crawl under a trailer unless an emergency(on road). If I have a faulty valve(leaking), I take it to the shop and let the mechanic crawl under and get dirty.
One thought about inspections. I still don't understand how a vehicle can come out of PMI and no grease is ever disturbed. I have had the same tractor for several years and it has had undisturbed grease and road grime on critical steering components, suspension and so forth. It's never been cleaned or wiped down for years. How could you possibly look for cracks etc. without being able to see the metal and components? I suspect it's never looked at. Or skipped on the list. I suspect this is why a drag-link could just fall off.
Dracula
Package Car is cake compared to this...
I don't know how they trained you there, but here, we are trained to get underneath the trailer to check that the 5TH wheel lock has been engaged around the trailer pin. There is no way to see that unless you shine a light directly behind the 5TH wheel, underneath the trailer. When I check the rear of the trailer, I use a rubber mallet, and I get underneath the trailer, check the tread of the tires, make sure that I can see a cap on the stem of the inside tire, I shine my flashlight on the springs, get directly underneath the trailer and check that the air tank's welds are solid, then thump both brake chambers with the mallet, check the inside side of both springs, then get back out from underneath the trailer and resume the pre-trip outside of the trailer. From there, I thump the tires, check to make sure the outside tire has a valve stem cap, the hub has oil, the lugs nuts are solid and rust-free, make sure the marker light is lit and do the pre-trip on the rear of the trailer. Then, when I'm on the other side, I lean under the trailer and check for a valve stem cap on the stem of the inside tire, check the springs and thump both tires, check outside valve stem for a cap, hub for hub oil, and lug nuts, secure and rust free.
The reason I go all of the way underneath the trailer in the rear is for three things, to thump the brake chambers, to make sure the welds on the air tank is solid and to make sure the metal washer on top of the springs is secure underneath the U-bolts. All of these things I check are from experience. The brake chambers? I once pre-tripped a trailer, the chambers were fine, but when I reached my destination, one chamber was barely hanging on the frame. If that would've fallen off while I was driving, the brakes would've locked up. Ever since, I get under there and lightly thump the chambers to make sure they are on solidly. The welds on the air tank? We had a driver get written up because he dropped off a trailer that was then pre-tripped by another driver who noticed that the weld on the tank was broken and barely hanging on, on that side. The trailer had to be off-loaded to another trailer. After that, I visually check the welds on those tanks, no exceptions. And as far as the washer above the springs, an older driver pointed this out to me, especially on the railboxes, which have that bigger u shaped washer underneath the two u bolts. He showed me one night his railbox where one of those washers was partially off the springs, He said if he wouldn't have spotted it any big bump could have dropped the U bolts on top of the axle.
Not all of these things are required, but you damn good and well if something happens while on the road, you and only you will be charged with an accident. So, pardon me, but I will always check this stuff, and I won't apologize for it either.
A
anonymous6
Guest
it's true that the snubber is not dot required but have you ever driven without it for a couple hundred miles? i always switch the trailers if the percentages are close.
Dracula
Package Car is cake compared to this...
I do too. But the way feeders is now, with so many burners from package car coming back, rush, rush, rush is the name of the game. They get a little harassment, freak out, then start taking shortcuts. I see it everyday. Between not doing a proper pre-trip, post-trip, or simply driving with something that needs to be fixed, only because they don't want to get behind, these drivers are a hazard. They make us all look bad.
In your case, when I see a snubber isn't engaging, I simply go on "Other Work, Breakdown" until I get everything reversed and back rolling. Let automotive get charged for the time, because it's their issue.
104Feeder
Phoenix Feeder
Might also check your spring hangers, looking for the actual thickness of the hanger on either end where the spring bolts through it (Tractor too). It wears away and with too much clearance it will feel like the trailer or tractor are slightly fishtailing down the road. Very disconcerting!
Dracula
Package Car is cake compared to this...
The point is, this is why I get down underneath the trailers. It doesn't take long, and I've yet to have a sup tell me I was doing something wrong. They've asked me what I was doing, and one of them told me I didn't need to do it, but I asked him if something broke, could he put it in writing that I would not be charged with it?
I never heard another thing about my pre-trip routine.
104Feeder
Phoenix Feeder
Yeah I completely support you getting underneath the trailers, and 'crawling' under is a bit of an exaggeration to what we are doing. I just 'duck walk' underneath. If anything, just properly inspecting the tires requires you to be underneath the trailer as there is no way to see all of the inside tire inside sidewall from outside the trailer. OSHA would support you too, I know!
If you have an Android smart phone you might try downloading the free stopwatch app and timing yourself while doing your pre-trip. Every time I've checked what they complain about I find I'm doing it in less than 1/3 of the time they are alleging. Just be consistent & don't waste time chatting in the yard and you'll have no problems.
If you have an Android smart phone you might try downloading the free stopwatch app and timing yourself while doing your pre-trip. Every time I've checked what they complain about I find I'm doing it in less than 1/3 of the time they are alleging. Just be consistent & don't waste time chatting in the yard and you'll have no problems.
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
I do the same thing. I do not "crawl" under the trailers, I kind of bend at the knees and crouch. But I do get completely under the trailers to see the springs, spring hangers, shackles, inside of wheels, etc. Not necessary on a tractor, can see everything from up top or with the hood open.
By the time I start work, it takes me about 15 minutes to get the wheels rolling on the tractor. No radio to put in, already there. Another 15 minutes to pre-trip my already hooked up set of doubles. I'm rolling out the gate roughly half hour from punch in.
I personally don't care what Buster tells me not to check. I'm between 60,000 and 80,000 pounds going down the road. I drive about 500 miles a day. I'm not putting that set on the road until I'm satisfied that it is safe to go down the road. I'm not out to "steal" time, don't check unnecessary stuff, just what the DOT calls for, not UPS. If the DOT says to check this particular thing and Buster says not to, well the DOT trumps Buster.
I've had the talk to about property time. I guess I'm taking too long to get off the property. I've been audited on my pre-trip, was told that "we" don't need to check that. I just told my supe that "we" don't drive this thing, I do. I check it because it is safety related and mandated by the DOT and could affect my personal safety. Have not heard a word again from my supe since then. Still take about half an hour to hit the gate.
I've got a wife and 2 kids at the house. That set is not moving until I am sure, not Buster, that it is safe to go down the highway.
By the time I start work, it takes me about 15 minutes to get the wheels rolling on the tractor. No radio to put in, already there. Another 15 minutes to pre-trip my already hooked up set of doubles. I'm rolling out the gate roughly half hour from punch in.
I personally don't care what Buster tells me not to check. I'm between 60,000 and 80,000 pounds going down the road. I drive about 500 miles a day. I'm not putting that set on the road until I'm satisfied that it is safe to go down the road. I'm not out to "steal" time, don't check unnecessary stuff, just what the DOT calls for, not UPS. If the DOT says to check this particular thing and Buster says not to, well the DOT trumps Buster.
I've had the talk to about property time. I guess I'm taking too long to get off the property. I've been audited on my pre-trip, was told that "we" don't need to check that. I just told my supe that "we" don't drive this thing, I do. I check it because it is safety related and mandated by the DOT and could affect my personal safety. Have not heard a word again from my supe since then. Still take about half an hour to hit the gate.
I've got a wife and 2 kids at the house. That set is not moving until I am sure, not Buster, that it is safe to go down the highway.
104Feeder
Phoenix Feeder
"Here" they posted a standard to have us at the gate in 31 minutes pretripping a tractor & building a set but graciously allow us an extra 15 minutes to do it (which becomes 45 total minutes in UPS math). WTF-ever, it's 55 to 75 minutes assuming no breakdowns but I don't watch the time.
I would suggest that everyone that drives T/T purchase the FMCSA book (i bought mine thru jj keller)
Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations Pocketbook (Green Book™)
When i started at ups (hired off the street as a feeder driver) I to was told ,y pre-trips were to long,
I was nice about it and told my sup. I as the driver have no time restraints on doing a pre-trip, untill i know it safe to move my pre-trip will be all long as it takes. I have not been talked to since about this issue.
I have seveal times used this book to refuse loads also, i carry this with me everyday as a "tool". This book is also what the DOT uses for inspections.
Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations Pocketbook (Green Book™)
When i started at ups (hired off the street as a feeder driver) I to was told ,y pre-trips were to long,
I was nice about it and told my sup. I as the driver have no time restraints on doing a pre-trip, untill i know it safe to move my pre-trip will be all long as it takes. I have not been talked to since about this issue.
I have seveal times used this book to refuse loads also, i carry this with me everyday as a "tool". This book is also what the DOT uses for inspections.
Dracula
Package Car is cake compared to this...
Same for me. They stack my set because I took too much time for their tastes, and they told me to claim 1 and 1 in outbound loads, so that gives me 29 minutes, and the +15 they give you. 44 minutes. It doesn't normally happen for me. Last night was a perfect example. I take loads that are by-pass, so they need to be secured. And of course, my back trailer wasn't secured. By the time I start, the hub is done and gone. So I went and tried to find a supervisor, ANY supervisor, but no luck. So I thought, what the hey, I'll grab a load bar and try and do it myself. But I couldn't get the bar to stretch across the trailer. So by now, the night sort sups were starting to file in. I grabbed one, and she tried to get it but told me the bar was jammed. By the time she went and got a load strap, and secured my load, 20 minutes had passed.
70 minutes after my start time, I hit my leave button in IVIS. I love this company. The harder they try to cut my hours, the more time I seem to get.
104Feeder
Phoenix Feeder
I keep a copy of the FMCSR in my bag to but just be aware that those are updated monthly and do not include the interpretations. The regulations and interpretations are here: Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
twoweeled
Well-Known Member
That is it, exactly! We've lost All authority to judge safety, but only retain the responsibility for safety. I just received a decision on my grievance (I have to update my earlier post), which had to do with not wanting to take a set with the snubber not working. UPS didn't want to have a mechanic look at it, and they didn't want me to switch the trailers. Take like it is, or I can go home. Explain this one to me: The decision (as I was told by my business agant) is they paid me for that day, but UPS does not have to fix the snubber, I have to take it not working, If I don't feel safe not taking the set like that, UPS does NOT have to offer me any other work. UPS can FIRE me for not working as directed. When I was trained, I was told; "if it's on there, it has to be working!" IF things go wrong, your know they'll be looking for a finger to point at you. We retain only responsibility for accidents now, no authority for what we pull.
twoweeled
Well-Known Member
Well, I'm the one who went home because of the snubber and the grievance was finally settled. I cannot make total sense of this, and being as nothing is ever written,,,well you know! They paid me 8 hrs to make me whole. But yet, the decision (as I was told) is that the snubber doesn't have to be working. I have to take it the way it is (snubber not working). If I do not feel safe with it, UPS doesn't have to give me other work as my 8 hour guarantee, UPS has the right to FIRE ME. This is per my business agent. Yes, you can work around it for while, but when it's heard in PCM that no sets to be reversed without approval from dispatch, or something similar? so now,,,what happens with that hot rail trailer with the low tire and a very low tire? change it, or take it like it is if told to do so? refusal? The way things are now, if your someone not thought of highly from dispatch, you'd better take it. let's face it, SAFETY IS OUT THE WINDOW.
twoweeled
Well-Known Member
I've wondered about this snubber thing for awhile. I'm not totally convinced we're getting the accurate story here. Snubber may not be required, but if a snubber exist, I wonder if that changes anything. Similar to lights on trailers that are added. They my not be required, but once you add them, they better be working! As someone else pointed out about the jerking you get without a snubber, through hundreds of miles. But, oooh, we care about your back and don't want you hurt! Well there's another workman's comp case that's bound to come up later!
