Feeder Work Question

[705red]

Red, I hate to tell you but its not your work until the customer decides it is. The customer is allowed to zone ship if they want. they can either do it in an in house solution keeping it in the unions hands or they can let some or all of it done by another company that may be union company (seldom) or may not union company (most cases) . The union still gets its dues if they allow ups to keep this in house and they lose dues if they resist ups and the customer goes with another company. The union really likes its money so i assume they will allow ups to keep this in an in house solution. and again just to restate this, its the customers packages and they deices how it works. if you don't believe this then tell a customer that ships all next day air they have to ship every thing ground because its taking feeder jobs away which is a teamsters job and gives it to a pilot who is not a teamster. I bet you would get better backing from the teamsters on this subject.

If it has a ups barcode its our work, if they want to ship it as skids using freights tracking system and than convert it that is different. But once they put a 1z barcode that is ours. I have a real bad feeling this will blow up real soon, especially in parts of the country that stand up for themselves, chicago, california, boston, california, new york, philly, jersey etc.

 

[alister]

If it has a ups barcode its our work, if they want to ship it as skids using freights tracking system and than convert it that is different. But once they put a 1z barcode that is ours. I have a real bad feeling this will blow up real soon, especially in parts of the country that stand up for themselves, chicago, california, boston, california, new york, philly, jersey etc.

First off the, the customer can put his packages anywhere he wants barcode and all. He could put a 1z label on it and then ship it through usps and there is not a thing you can do about it even if it has a 1z label on it. BTW, I still think your going to have a hard time getting union help on this one. The union is still going to get their dues if it stays in house and they will lose it all if they make the company lose the business. I guess it would make you feel better if the customer put thier package into a non-union freight company and zone skipped it to its destination and then have usps delivery it. That way you wouldn't see it as your division losing it to another division of the same company, it would be our company losing it to another company and you would feel justified that you bust the companies balls again. BTW, Does "busting the companies balls" put food on the table of the employees that lose thier jobs becuase they lost the volume altogether, or do you feel that there is something magical that keeps the packages going to us?

 

[705red]

First off the, the customer can put his packages anywhere he wants barcode and all. He could put a 1z label on it and then ship it through usps and there is not a thing you can do about it even if it has a 1z label on it. BTW, I still think your going to have a hard time getting union help on this one. The union is still going to get their dues if it stays in house and they will lose it all if they make the company lose the business. I guess it would make you feel better if the customer put thier package into a non-union freight company and zone skipped it to its destination and then have usps delivery it. That way you wouldn't see it as your division losing it to another division of the same company, it would be our company losing it to another company and you would feel justified that you bust the companies balls again. BTW, Does "busting the companies balls" put food on the table of the employees that lose thier jobs becuase they lost the volume altogether, or do you feel that there is something magical that keeps the packages going to us?

If we lose business we lose jobs and when we gain new business we lose jobs, i work under a contract that protects my job and my work from being done by someone else thats not in my bargaining unit.

If the union wont do anything because they want the dues than we will vote them out and elect someone that understands our point of views and realizes how serious this is.

yrc which is yellow roadway corporation is already diverting work away from the freight guys and costing them 100s of jobs from diverted work to logistics.

If the company believes that they can move our work and expect us just to sit back and wait to get eliminated one by one they have another thing coming.

Try telling that av8's friend that is now laid off because av8 wanted to help our company grow.

 

[alister]

If we lose business we lose jobs and when we gain new business we lose jobs, i work under a contract that protects my job and my work from being done by someone else thats not in my bargaining unit.

If the union wont do anything because they want the dues than we will vote them out and elect someone that understands our point of views and realizes how serious this is.

yrc which is yellow roadway corporation is already diverting work away from the freight guys and costing them 100s of jobs from diverted work to logistics.

If the company believes that they can move our work and expect us just to sit back and wait to get eliminated one by one they have another thing coming.

Try telling that av8's friend that is now laid off because av8 wanted to help our company grow.

so what your telling me is that this one feeder driver is worth more to you than 10 delivery drivers and and about 6 part time hourly jobs? if i remember right, you still need people to sort and delivery those packages at the destination hub.

I tell you what, I'll go and talk to av8's friend and explain to him that Red in Chicago thought his job was more important than 16 other people and that he got his job back. maybe i will include pictures of them and their families so he can see how much sacrifice his fellow union brothers are willing to do. Then you can go talk to the 16 other people and tell them why it was more important to let another company have the volume than it was to let one feeder driver lose his job. Deal?

 

[705red]

so what your telling me is that this one feeder driver is worth more to you than 10 delivery drivers and and about 6 part time hourly jobs? if i remember right, you still need people to sort and delivery those packages at the destination hub.

I tell you what, I'll go and talk to av8's friend and explain to him that Red in Chicago thought his job was more important than 16 other people and that he got his job back. maybe i will include pictures of them and their families so he can see how much sacrifice his fellow union brothers are willing to do. Then you can go talk to the 16 other people and tell them why it was more important to let another company have the volume than it was to let one feeder driver lose his job. Deal?

So know what you are telling us is that this is the only case of ups subcontracting out our work to the cheaper side of freight?

You obviously have to be employed in the management ranks if you expect us to believe this.

If we allow this to continue on a small scale like this its only a matter of time before this is the norm around the country and we can all come to your house when we cant pay the bills because ups wanted to nickel and dime the employees of a 4 billion dollar a year company.

 

[tieguy]

Ups ans upsf are two different companies and do not address the same concerns of the customer. the only person that could talk a customer into doing it this way would be bd.

Now you still have not answered why our feeder drivers can not make this drive from point a to b.

I have answered it to the best of my ability Red. The customer is somehow dictating what goes on there. The customer is dictating what services they want to use and how they want to use them.

 

[tieguy]

If we lose business we lose jobs and when we gain new business we lose jobs, i work under a contract that protects my job and my work from being done by someone else thats not in my bargaining unit.

your contract is with UPS its not with the customer. As long as the customer dictates what he wants you can't touch it. If the customer decides he wants to ship packages with ups labels on them on a UPSF truck then you can't do anything about it.

 

[tieguy]

So know what you are telling us is that this is the only case of ups subcontracting out our work to the cheaper side of freight?

You obviously have to be employed in the management ranks if you expect us to believe this.

Ah yes union goon rule number 1721 when confronted with overwhelming logic defend yourself by accusing the other person of being a management person.

 

[705red]

your contract is with UPS its not with the customer. As long as the customer dictates what he wants you can't touch it. If the customer decides he wants to ship packages with ups labels on them on a UPSF truck then you can't do anything about it.

Oh tie please don't ever say there's nothing we can do about it. I just pray that it doesn't happen here.

Thanks for explaining it to the best of your ability in the last post. I just done see why ups is selling this service knowing that eventually someone would put in a grievance over it.

 

[705red]

Ah yes union goon rule number 1721 when confronted with overwhelming logic defend yourself by accusing the other person of being a management person.

I went back and reread his post and I'm still missing the over whelming logic. Can you point it out?

We on the cafe are just a handful of the employees across this country and if this is happening in one place i can almost guarantee its going on a lot more than we know.

Can you email me a copy of the union goon rule book, i will like to make sure i follow it to the t.

 

[alister]

So know what you are telling us is that this is the only case of ups subcontracting out our work to the cheaper side of freight?

You obviously have to be employed in the management ranks if you expect us to believe this.

If we allow this to continue on a small scale like this its only a matter of time before this is the norm around the country and we can all come to your house when we cant pay the bills because ups wanted to nickel and dime the employees of a 4 billion dollar a year company.

Red i have no idea if this is the only case of sub contracting. I have never said any thing about how many times this has occurred. I don't even know if this time has occurred except i am taking av8torntn word on it.

how many jobs do we lose if we lose this volume? how many packages do you delivery each day? how many Red's will lose their jobs because of this volume being gone? This has a real impact both positive and negative. I see this as being more positive than negative and I bet the union sees it this way too. I bet the Union would see it your way too if they had a monopoly on delivering of packages but they don't. FedEx will take any volume that you’re willing to let them have Red. In fact you might be one of their biggest sales leads. Have you gotten any Sales leads bonuses from FedEx at the expense of your union brothers? if not you should go ask FedEx for your fair share.



By the way, your not nickle and dime. Your the best paid in your class with benefits that most people are envy of. Now don't get me wrong, I believe you guys and girls work and deserve every bit of the money you get. There is no other job out there like a UPS driver.

 

[Fullhouse]

We had the same problem with Tupperware in South Carolina years ago. They were using Schneider (Orange Trucks) to haul the ground packages. Yes, they were using to zone skip method. The shipper was given false addresses all over the country by UPS. So when they shipped one regardless of its addy it would be charged as zone 1. Tupperware ended up closing that distribution site and moved overseas. They were moving anywhere from 4 to 8 trailers (53ft) a day. Oh yea, UPS logistics had and office at that location. I would be willing to bet, if they had not closed down, UPSF would be there right now!
I notified the Local about it but nothing was ever done.

 

[alister]

So know what you are telling us is that this is the only case of ups subcontracting out our work to the cheaper side of freight?

You obviously have to be employed in the management ranks if you expect us to believe this.

If we allow this to continue on a small scale like this its only a matter of time before this is the norm around the country and we can all come to your house when we cant pay the bills because ups wanted to nickel and dime the employees of a 4 billion dollar a year company.

BTW Red, You never did say if we have a deal or not. will you go to those 10 drivers and 6 part timers and talk to them. if i go talk to the 1 feeder driver?

oh yea, Can i have some of your cake? you must have a lot of cake since you get to keep it and eat it at the same time. This must be the magical something i wasn't able to figure out while ago and i'm sure all your logic will make sense when i try some..... do you consider brownies cake by chance?

 

[av8torntn]

We had the same problem with Tupperware in South Carolina years ago. They were using Schneider (Orange Trucks) to haul the ground packages. Yes, they were using to zone skip method. The shipper was given false addresses all over the country by UPS. So when they shipped one regardless of its addy it would be charged as zone 1. Tupperware ended up closing that distribution site and moved overseas. They were moving anywhere from 4 to 8 trailers (53ft) a day. Oh yea, UPS logistics had and office at that location. I would be willing to bet, if they had not closed down, UPSF would be there right now!
I notified the Local about it but nothing was ever done.

If you don't mind did the local try to do something or was there just nothing that could even be attempted?

 

[av8torntn]

BTW Red, You never did say if we have a deal or not. will you go to those 10 drivers and 6 part timers and talk to them. if i go talk to the 1 feeder driver?

quote]

If you are offering to come here and talk to me why? My management either cannot tell me or is afraid to tell me what is happening so what can you tell me?

 

[tieguy]

Oh tie please don't ever say there's nothing we can do about it. I just pray that it doesn't happen here.

Thanks for explaining it to the best of your ability in the last post. I just done see why ups is selling this service knowing that eventually someone would put in a grievance over it.

I'm sure its already been discussed at the national levels of your union.

 

[tieguy]

I went back and reread his post and I'm still missing the over whelming logic. Can you point it out?

If not then why resort to the ultimate cop out of accusing him of being management?

 

[tieguy]

If you don't mind did the local try to do something or was there just nothing that could even be attempted?

absolutely. Go to the customer dictate what they will and will not do and hope you don't lose the business.

 

[alister]

BTW Red, You never did say if we have a deal or not. will you go to those 10 drivers and 6 part timers and talk to them. if i go talk to the 1 feeder driver?

quote]

If you are offering to come here and talk to me why? My management either cannot tell me or is afraid to tell me what is happening so what can you tell me?

av8torntn most of this volume was going through FedEx (or another carrier) right? so we now have 3,000 more packages a day than we used to right?

Well first of all, i would like to thank you. Seeing how the economy is going and how much volume we are off compared to a year ago and still dropping, you may have helped save my job and many others.

I am sorry your district has lost a feeder driver. I hope the economy will change course and he gets his job back, but you really need to know that this sales lead has helped save at least 10 packages drivers jobs and at least 6 part time employees jobs if not more. There are very few package car drivers that deliver 300 packages a day in non peak volume. so this one sales lead has help 10 other package drivers to keep their jobs. Maybe one of them will be able to help your district back by submitting another sales lead.

 

[BrownSuit]

Red isn't entirely off base here, it sounds like somebody from BD selling the customer on SCS and UPS integrating their operations to allow for the most economical option for the customer.

What isn't happening here is outsourcing or subcontracting. Either way a Union UPS Driver is hauling the goods out of the facility. No where in the section of the contract that I saw did it say that it had to be the same business unit that touched the packages.

The only thing that is wrong that I'm seeing is not being clear with the feeders about what happened to the volume, threatening the Freight drivers for taking with the Feeder drivers, and not allowing the Feeder driver to inspect the contents of his truck. The later I don't think would have happened if the Feeder hadn't made such a big deal about the volume.

There likely is job loss here, but it's do to technology (somebody mentioned the belts sorting before it gets to the hub) and not due to sub-contracting. The technology is where the real cost savings comes into effect.

So my question is are you going to have it put into the contract that our customers can't upgrade technology and enjoy cost savings and save UPS?

I wouldn't push it with the customer, if a driver discusses this with the customer and tries to tell them not to do it, refuses to pick-up, or suggests shipping with another company, etc. You should should expect to be written up as soon as the customer mentions it.

By doing so you are jeopardizing your job that you have and your 401 (k) if you invest in stock. As long as the business is going between business units, your job is safe. The second we lose the business because somebody is hot under the collar and has loose lips, expect people to lose jobs, union jobs, good paying union jobs.